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Buddhism makes more sense than Christianity


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#81 ridder

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:53 PM

you are the buddha. if you follow yourself you become a dog chasing his tail. lead by example instead. :)

#82 Hippie3

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:01 PM

the lower realms of existence ... eternal cylcle of suffering


and there you have it-
the buddhist perspective of god's grand creation.
hence my rejection of it.
buddha missed the point.

#83 ridder

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:15 PM

doesn't mean buddha missed the point, we have no idea about siddhartha... but it does seem those who interpreted his personal experience most likely missed the point. thats what we have now.

i'm not defending buddhism just makin the point not to mix up the religion in it's current incarnation with it's historical roots.

#84 ridder

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:21 PM

if i were to propose a general pattern of religion, i would say it is about a particular person becoming enlightened, then trying to bring that experience to his/her friends around them, who must interpret it according to the cultural language and symbology of the day, who then mix up that symbolic representation of an abstract truth with distinct facts and ideas about that truth, who then go on to mistakenly worship said facts/rituals that originally were there to help bring about the experience knowing/enlightenment/oneness/etc in the first place. Much like Plato's The Cave.

#85 Hippie3

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:05 PM

i can dig the idea of sifting out the 'gems of wisdom' buried in
the world's religions
but i think one must begin by taking as a premise that
every single one of them is wrong on so many points,
there is some truth in each but only a little,
a glimpse.
buddha got it wrong,
mohammed got it wrong,
jesus got it wrong,
plato too.
all of them.
no one has yet made
the one true faith,
it just doesn't exist.
now go from there
and look for the gems we have found,
put together your own vision.

#86 alden i

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:17 PM

Don't follow the Guru; You are the Guru!

#87 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:27 PM

I had to post this,
when I noticed this thread I looked
to the right and saw that 666 people had viewed this thread....hmmmm

#88 Hippie3

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:35 PM

:lol:

#89 kukukajoob

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:14 PM

"You must remember that throughout human history, millions have made
this voyage. A few (whom we call mystics, saints or buddhas) have made
this experience endure and have communicated it to their fellow men.
You must remember, too, that the experience is safe (at the very
worst, you will end up the same person who entered the experience),
and that all of the dangers which you have feared are unnecessary
productions of your mind. Whether you experience heaven or hell,
remember that it is your mind which creates them. Avoid grasping the
one or fleeing the other. Avoid imposing the ego game on the
experience."

~ The Psychedelic Experience ~
A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead
By Timothy Leary, Ph.D., Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., &
Richard Alpert, Ph.D.

This has turned out to be a great thread. Funny thing is the guy who started it [Dr. Gonz] got everyone started with his first post yet never entered the fray. LOL

Ultimately, religion is an attempt to put into words and other symbols, that which is beyond thought or words.

A quick read of this thread reveals: We share the same cosmos, yet no two individuals are in total agreement about how to explain it, what it means, or what is the best way to live in it. We seem to be alone together.

Generally, I disagree with those who say follow no one but yourself. This is discarding thousands of years of Eastern and Western thought. Most of us have glimpsed the true cosmic self, but how many sustain such awareness? That's where a finding a religion, discipline, or life philosophy that works for you becomes important. Knowing that you possess an Enlightened Self at your core is not the same as manifesting that life condition in your daily life. It's completely valid to study various traditions and teachers, and to learn from them in seeking a path of continuous self-improvement.

No matter what religion or philosophy you choose, it will not be perfect. The key is a seeking mind and the desire to help others. Lessen your footprint on the planet, and make a difference.

The declining ecosystem, overpopulation, endless wars, loss of human and constitutional rights - these are all the results of human greed, selfishness, anger, addictions. The external environment is greatly influenced by the inner condition of these billions of humans.

We cannot continue on our present course indefinitely. If individuals don't change and learn to live in harmony with each other and the planet, we will eventually arrive at species extinction. Cause and effect.

#90 Guest_Transition Force_*

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:47 PM

and i'd love to see a religion
that rejoiced in all the wonderful pleasures god gave us in the flesh,
i think we are supposed to love pleasure in all its forms
and deny none of the gifts of god,


the problem with that is the same as those religions which deny the pleasures of the flesh
the old caananite religion, while savage and cruel (as were most cultures of the time) would be a good example of a religion that "rejoiced" in all worldy pleasures

they pleasured themselves in every way possible, in fact during some rituals they would kill the child of a sheep, and boil it in its milk for use in orgies. that is why the torah (old testament) forbids such an action, though the rabbis eroneously interperet it as prohibiting eating milk & meat together

one must balance pleasure with responsibility
or as i was once taught - moderation in all things

#91 aumbrellaforainydays

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:03 AM

I told him that hormones lead to premarital sex dancing is just a warm up.


haha :lol:

#92 ridder

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:51 AM

my point exactly hip.

#93 Hippie3

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:58 AM

...in fact during some rituals they would kill the child of a sheep, and boil it in its milk for use in orgies....


need i point out that you got that info about the canaanites
from their enemies, in their bible.
fairly certain the israelites were not exactly being
fair and balanced in their descriptions.
plus even if it were all true,
that was over 3,500 years ago
and as some are fond of pointing out
the culture had different beliefs and values.
like what's the big deal about boiling meat in milk ,
the 'sin' in that has got to be quite minor compared
to ones like murder.
and nothing really wrong with orgies either.
so i'm not as scandalized by your account as you might expect.

#94 Hippie3

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 08:06 AM

Generally, I disagree with those who say follow no one but yourself. This is discarding thousands of years of Eastern and Western thought....The declining ecosystem, overpopulation, endless wars, loss of human and constitutional rights - these are all the results of human greed, selfishness, anger, addictions. The external environment is greatly influenced by the inner condition of these billions of humans.

We cannot continue on our present course indefinitely. If individuals don't change and learn to live in harmony with each other and the planet, we will eventually arrive at species extinction. Cause and effect.


ever considered that
those thousands of years
of human religious thought
are why the world is in such a mess ?

i mean,
until very very recently and arguably even now,
the most powerful and influential force in human history
has been religion,
it shaped every single aspect of life in every society.

and yet here we find ourselves,
threatened with global mass extinction.

i'm fairly sure that
the first step to recovery and a healthy human future
might just be to
discard all that religion
that you want us to study, believe and continue to practice.

seems to me that doctrines that teach that this world
is evil, fallen from grace, a lower plane of existence to be escaped
inevitably lead to a mindset that
devalues this world and everything in it.
buddhism doesn't tell us to save the planet,
it teaches us to leave it behind.

#95 Guest_Transition Force_*

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:09 AM

need i point out that you got that info about the canaanites
from their enemies, in their bible.


In this case, no.
While I do agree with you - in fact IMO the parts of the Torah which aren't really common sense rules (don't murder, etc.) are arguably simply reactions against the Caananite religion
I learned about this information from a Karaite Hakham I used to know, who was giving me a lesson, and was explaining why there were certain prohibitions in the torah (in this case, the prohibition of boiling a calf in its mothers milk)

#96 Hippie3

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:26 AM

ok, well
that's where he got his information then.
same source, just a different path to you.

#97 rocketman

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:26 AM

Anything and everything created by mankind is flawed. Organized religion falls into that catagory. I like the idea of going up to a buffet and taking what I need and want, although what I want isnt necessarily the best thing for me. But its personal that way. The good and the bad that is inside me for whatever reasons, heredity, rearing, or whatever is for me to understand.

A one size fits all religion has a limited buffet, and they tell you what to believe in many cases. There is wisdom everywhere, from the religions, to the village idiot.

The one way, cut and dried religion approach works with many. I do not believe I am better than they are by any means. I know certain people that need to be told step by step how to live thier lives, and when they dont have the guidance, they are lost and miserable. The organized religions tell us what to do and when very well, especially if we take the words literally.

I guess it comes somewhere from the bible, Im not a theologian so I cant quote verse and scripture. Says something like we all know right from wrong.
For me, that is true. It is not so black and white these days though. Raising a kid, and trying to teach him what is "right".

Thats my 2 cents anyhow.

#98 Guest_Transition Force_*

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:47 AM

ok, well
that's where he got his information then.
same source, just a different path to you.


That would not be correct either
If you read the torah - whether in english translation or hebrew original - you will find no mention of the elaborate ceremony that they had when the boiled lambs in their mothers milk
He knew this because of the type of occupation he has. When I last talked to him (a few years ago), he was working under Emmanuel Tov (google his name) and working with him on the DSS project - not exactly the work of amateurs

#99 Hippie3

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:04 AM

there are no independent records of canaanite religious practices
other than those recorded by the israelites.
we have very little from archeology either,
the israelites left very little of canaanite society intact,
there are no books, etc. to find independent verification within.
the winner of the war gets to write the history books
and the canaanites were losers.

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:15 PM

we don't have a lot left from archeology
but we do have a reasonable amount
there was some sort of discovery years ago, IIRC it was discovered in Lebanon, and it described this ceremony in detail. it was written in the ancient paleo-hebrew/paleo-aramaic script
see http://www.geocities...ofAlphabets.JPG for some examples of the scripts

The only concrete details that I remember is that it involved the boiling of a lamb in its mother milk in an orgy dedicated to Ba'al and his three wives
If you're interested, I can have my mother send me the notes I have on the subject after she finishes moving (they were at her house), it is quite an interesting subject




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