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Muriatic acid extraction


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#1 Sidestreet

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 10:48 PM

I got myself some Caapi and Viridis and started doing muriatic acid extractions, but I have a slight problem. When I get the extract completely dry in the bottom of the (glass) pan, it's extremely hard to get off of the surface. It's like I need to chisel away at it for an hour, and there's still some left in there.

If I want to rehydrate it I can, then simmer it back down to a drinkable amount, but what if I wanted to make a larger amount of extract for long-term storage?

#2 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:07 AM

maybe line the dish with non-stick foil ?

#3 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:25 AM

The problem is that I'm using that strong acid, so it would leach aluminum from the foil into my extraction.

#4 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:46 AM

just reduce on pyrex until the acid smell is gone,
then all that is left is water
safe for transfer onto foil to finish the evaporative process

#5 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:47 AM

Oh, sweet. Good call, thanks!

#6 rick

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 10:03 AM

I work with muratic acid. It and the vapors can be VERY
Dangerous. And always work in a well ventalated
area .

This is somthang a beginer should be fully aware of.

#7 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 12:53 PM

I thought that the acid wasn't totally gone til all the moisture evaporated... I know that HCl turns to a gas without the presence or water... I'd just use a razor to scrape it up and stay away from the foil to be safe.

#8 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 01:28 PM

I read that the acid evaporates once the pH of the water it's in reaches 2. You make a good point, though, about "just to be safe." I'll try to find an answer from a good source and come back.

Does the razorblade work better?

#9 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 01:34 PM

Well, I badly need a nap, so I'll keep looking another time.

#10 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 03:55 PM

the acid boils off long b4 the water does,
i've made enough crank to know that much

#11 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 05:14 PM

But when I boil acidic water, as it reduces it gets more acidic(lower ph)... That acid can only stay in liquid form at 31% saturation or so(maybe a lil higher), so I believe there'd still be acid in the water until it evaporates completely. By simmering acidic water to reduce, when extracting DMT, the PH raises as the solution's volume is reduced. Wouldn't that imply that the water was evapping until the acid reached the highest concentration? Then as the water is reduced further, the HCl turns to a gas as the water level lowers being that 31 some percent is the maximum saturation of HCl in water(any higher saturation it turns to gas, hence the fumes from your bottle of muriatic acid when opened)... That is what I was told for extractions and when testing the PH it does seem that the water gets more acidic, not less acidic from reducing. I mean I could be wrong, but from the extractions I've performed the ph does lower as the solution is reduced, which IMO says the water is evaporating faster than the acid.. Any real chemists out ther wanna help clarify this?? Thanks.. :)

#12 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 05:32 PM

what's the boiling point of hydrochloric acid ?
if it's lower than water.
it will evap first
and like i told him,
you can tell when
because the acid smell will go away

#13 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 05:54 PM

Maybe that is because I didn't boil my solution, just simmered it slowly for hours then. I only checked the ph once... Well, you learn something new everyday!! I have read conflicting reports, some say evap all the way, but I guess boiling may do the same thing, and as long as that won't damage your alkaloids, it would be much quicker...

#14 Guest_peoplecanfly_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 06:04 PM

i was thinking about something .... i dunno if it could be useful for you since i never done any extractions but reading in there i learned some things and im trying to help

would it be a good idea to let your acidic solution evap coimpleteley in a pot then redissolve it in a diffrent solvant like alcohol or something and re-evap it on something easier to scrape or something on what the residual substance wont stick too much?

only an idea

would it work?

#15 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 06:09 PM

http://www.mycotopia...sages/5/18.html

This link, meteor says,"And yes, as it boils down the pH lowers and the acidity skyrockets because the acid is the last thing to evaporate. " So this must be incorrect? I also read another link in which Leprechaun says the same thing. Are these just mistakes then? I guess I'll have to try an experiment soon... I have some HCl but our ph meter broke, guess I'll have to do the old red cabbage ph paper...

#16 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 06:18 PM

ok, did some digging,
apparently the boiling point varies a bit by the concentration ?
i see ranges from 127*F to 228*F at 20%
so perhaps indeed as the solution evaps
the acid concentrates which raises the boiling point,
preventing the last bit from evaping.
but i don't really think this applies to
the concentrations we get,
you can smell when the acid is gone,
i know from experience.



if one were inclined to de-acidify all that would be needed to do this is a dash of baking soda in the brew



#17 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 06:40 PM

Sounds good, thanks for clarifying that...;)




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