Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Ziplock Spawn bag test


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#21 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 14 February 2007 - 10:41 AM

Eeek !...the first 4 bags all have bacterial comtam ...So what i have is more fertilizer for the Garden...:special:
Next round I''ll increase the steam time to 90mins, 24hrs apart...So stay tuned, cause we're gonna nail this thing down...

#22 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:04 AM

bummer
you inoculate by injecting thru the polyfil right ?

#23 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:08 AM

Just for the hell of it , i'm PCing those infected bags which are wrapped in cloth..Curious to see what they look like after the run..Will post a pic 2nyt when they're cooled off....

#24 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:10 AM

Yes on the three they were knocked thru the polly, going to side inject next time and goop the hole..

#25 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 15 February 2007 - 09:28 AM

After 90mins PC at 15psi, the bags do not appear to have ruptured,, but they did melt down to the point where they can not be stretched back out..
So not usable really..
Any way, the next round of steaming for 90 mins x 2...coming up...

The Rye grass bags are still ok..

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1152.jpg


#26 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 17 February 2007 - 11:13 AM

Ok, In this third run Whole rice was boiled for an hour using 11/2times the
normal water amount for cooked rice..
The overcooked rice becomes really mushie and is easily mixed with dry verm...
I figure that actually cooking the rice in water first is likely to kill off most bacteria...
I made some jars also, as a control group...

The bags n' jars were steamed for 150mins..

The blue dots are the innoculation points [1 per bag]..which were then glued shut...

I like the idea of not having to grind the rice then hydrating ,as its all done in one step...

Now we wait...The RGS bags are still OK ,should be germinating any time..

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1176.jpg


#27 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 February 2007 - 11:37 AM

good luck
i think i personally would have put a bit less in each bag,
more air, less water and faster to finish
all helps push odds
favorably.
and these are cheap enough to make a bunch.

#28 chill

chill

    celtic tiger

  • Expired Member
  • 1,092 posts

Posted 17 February 2007 - 09:52 PM

I've done a similar thing with vacuum seal bags. No twist ties tho, vacuum seal the suckas. I picked it up from blue helix. It's a little bit more money but you don't have to dick around with so many jars, verm barriers etc. No cleaning of jars either.

Also, the vacuum seal bags are boilable so can handle the heat.

For innoculation you shoot LC right thru the bag and then cover holes with tyvek or in my case a coffee filter (tape the sides down).

I use a roiling boil tho since we are after steralization and not pasteurization.

#29 chill

chill

    celtic tiger

  • Expired Member
  • 1,092 posts

Posted 17 February 2007 - 09:56 PM

If the goal is to do this in an inexpensive manner by using heavy duty ziplocks then I'd recommend skipping the polyfil and shooting straight thru the bag.

Also, rolling boil is probably better than just a mild steaming.

Could work. You may want to double bag tho. Water is the worst thing you can get into your substrate.

#30 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 02:08 PM

Ok, all the steamed ziplocks are doing well..:eusa_danc ..The grass seed at day 11 and the rice/verm at day 7 ...It seemed that the first batch that failed ,just weren't cooked long enough...
Pre cooking the rice while hydrating it, is a good prevention method...
The bag which was made with whole "overcooked" rice is looking as good as any,,so if you don't have a grinder - no problemo..
The key ,is to boil the rice or BRF with enough water that it's consistancy is like cream soup ...Then add an equal volume of dry verm .
Make minor adjustments after that, B4 filling bags..
The bags are still strong and supple compared to any oven type bag i've used ..

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1193.jpg
  • IMG_1191.jpg


#31 RootsDubJah

RootsDubJah

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 48 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 05:14 PM

To throw my (small amount) of experience in here. Last weekend I fractionally sterilized using the Ziploc quart size freezer bags with the double-zipper. They're the ones with the red & blue press-zipper, not the plastic zipper that slides along the top.

But, these easily held up to the steam. I didn't have them in the water, instead I used my big pasta-boiling pot with a build in strainer. I just put a few inches of water in (so it was below the strainer bottom), and them steamed the bags for about an hour, three times with 12-16 hours in between each steam.

Three of the bags had popcorn in them, and were about half filled (popcorn was soaked overnight then boiled for about 30 mins prior to bagging). Then in a fourth bag I placed a piece of bread. Initially the bread bag was to just make sure the bags could hold up to the steam, since I didn't want to waste the popcorn. But I continued steaming the bread with the popcorn each time and am now using it as my "control" and so far nothing has grown on either the popcorn or the bread.

One of the bags of popcorn I put a ring of paper-towel tube that I cloned some oyster mushrooms from the grocery on, so it was about 60% covered in mycelium. It's been a couple days since I put the ring in and it looks like the mycelium has begun spreading in to the popcorn, and I don't have any other contams (yet).

#32 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:43 AM

That's great Roots...Do the bags have any kind of filter..?

#33 RootsDubJah

RootsDubJah

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 48 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 02:09 PM

I don't have any filter on my bags - do I need an air exchange for the mycellium to grow? Reading through the various teks (like PF, for example), the containers were sealed while mycellium grew out. I figured I'd leave them shut based on other tek's instructions. From here, I'm planning on following Lazlo's fruiting tek in this post using the popcorn spawn:

http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=19704

#34 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 04:04 PM

It's a good question..One of my first sealed bags gradually lost weight ,which means that water was moving through the plastic..It's possible that air also gradually migrates through the film...Whether it's enough to qualify as FAE, i dunno...
As far as PF jars colonizing with out air exchange -i guess they can ,but more slowly..My QT jars never have filters but they're only filled half way, so there's enough air for the whole proccess...

#35 chill

chill

    celtic tiger

  • Expired Member
  • 1,092 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:05 PM

In general, mycelium likes O2. PF jars have inoculation holes punched in the lids for FAE. Bluehelix added air to his bags.

I'd add it if I could.

#36 RootsDubJah

RootsDubJah

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 48 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:28 PM

A bit of bad news that I found out tonight with one of my bags. I noticed it losing air when I squeezed it, and I found a small tear near the zipper part of the bag. I wonder if the heat cycles weakened the attachment point of the zipper and it split. But, I'm going to leave it for now and see if I can grow the mycelium w/o any contams. YMMV, but for me I'll probably stop using Ziplocs for now since A small tear like that could waste a whole bag.

On the other hand, I found a local hardware store that sells canning supplies, so I can buy some jars. The whole reason I started playing with bags is I was having a hard time finding jars locally - all the grocery stores only carry them seasonally in the fall.

#37 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 26 February 2007 - 08:30 AM

Sorry to hear that...Part of the reason for this thread is for a low budget growing...No jars,PC's or fruiting chambers...

The "Hefty one zip" bags are quite sturdy ,no ruptures so far ,other brands may be less reliable...

#38 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 26 February 2007 - 09:05 AM

'fraid the air is required, pf jars are NOT fully sealed
and growth stops when air runs out,
as anyone who ever put tape over the pf jar air holes
eventually discovers.

#39 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 26 February 2007 - 11:48 AM

5 of the six bags are near full colo now..I'll remove the filter to case em,as they will need more water to fruit...

#40 golly

golly

    modapotato

  • Expired Member
  • 6,205 posts

Posted 06 March 2007 - 09:00 AM

Quick update...All the steam sterilized ziplock bags are doing great and on the verge of pinning..The two shown here ,with their plastic bag fruiting chambers
are on track with the rest of em...Will post as things develop...

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1247.jpg
  • IMG_1250.jpg





Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!