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AYAHUASCA [ was weak caapi]

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#21 CoyoteMesc


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Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:37 PM

Thats nice to hear.
when I'm on LSD or shrooms i LOVE
music. I could cry sometimes I'm so INTO the
I cant wait to try AYA.
this thread is going places I can tell
Mycotopia rocks:headbang:

#22 Delta911Turbo



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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:23 AM

Have any of you tried combining Ayahuasca with LSD? I combine LSD with smoked DMT all the time and find it to be amazing. Maybe even combining shrooms with the Ayahuasca, but in moderate amounts, since shrooms react to the MAOI.

the purge too can largely be avoided by using gelatin to precipitate out the tannins from the brew that make it so nasty bitter

How much gelatin do you suggest adding? I'm guessing this should be done at the end when you let it settle and cool in the refrigerator.

#23 tregar



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Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:41 AM

Yes, this thread will go places.

I will title the thread a couple months from now "Ayahuasca buttons".

I need a break after composing the long thread over at the aya forum, and just more time to dream in general--so I can post some good reports at the end. Only really had one good session so far. Life is so busy. But the one session was fantastic--I almost felt claravoyant being able to see historical & futuristic scenes in extraordinary clarity and detail.

The gelatin I believe is an alternative to the decanting for 7 days in a fridge.

You can choose one or the other.

Hippie3 would be the expert on the gelatin.

If you don't use gelatin, you put the brew in a fridge for about 5 days or more...this will cause the nausea-causing sediment to drop out and collect and stick to the bottom of the jar. You then pour off the liquid and reduce it down on a stove to whatever amount you want to consume. I reduced it down to a cup or two, then pour the liquid off into a pyrex dish, and evaporated off the water to make the extract.

There are major differences between smoked dmt and ayahuasca--you only need to read the book 'Supernatural' by best selling author Graham Hancock to see the differences--he did both. And I'm sure there are many people here at this forum that can explain this more in detail.

#24 rocketman



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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:03 PM

When thread dies, archive material "ayahuasca"

#25 tregar



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Posted 22 February 2007 - 09:24 PM

10 of the buttons were extracted (a micro extraction) many months ago and yielded 70mg of pure snow-white shardy spice, a defat was done 4 times on the buttons and then 3 extractions done on need for heptane etc...the xtals come out white and translucent looking with pointy shards all over. The scientific extraction was done on 10 of the buttons to see what each button contained, so that aya doses could be properly gauged. With an oral aya dose, you want between 29 to 70mg of spice in salt oral form--this would be between 5 buttons at the low end, to 10 buttons on the very high end. When the caapi dose is higher, less buttons are needed as well--so an average dose works well of 5 to 7 buttons. I can't stress enough how much caapi is important to the genuine ayahuasca visions...I've tried pure harmine with the extract and didn't have the degree of visuals and the teaching, guiding, organized force was also not present.

Here is a short comparison between ayahuasca and smoked dmt by Hancock (he took aya 16 times, and smoked dmt about 4 times):

My experience with DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings ayahuasca introduced me too.

For whereas the ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

Here are a few of his ayahuasca visions:

A short while later, out of a background of shifting geometrical patterns, a beautiful Egyptian goddess appears. I see only her head and headdress clearly. She's in full regalia. Then she vanishes as abruptly and mysteriously as she arrived.

But the best part of the evening is when the same Egyptian goddess whom I last saw in Peru reappears--this time on the left side of my visual field. At first she is concealed, in shadow. I look closely and see a slender female figure holding a dark blue mask in front of her face--one of those masks on a stick. Then she removes the mask and I see her face clearly in the instant before she vanishes once more. She glows the colour of molten gold.

I seem to be inside a large, quite dark room with an opened doorway to one side. Light floods into the doorway and through it I can see a beautiful, spacious balcony overlooking what is perhaps a vast river, or a lake, or even the sea.

On the left side of the balcony, at the rear just outside the open doorway through which I'm looking, I suddenly become aware of the presence of a figure. It is an imposing statue, about six feet high and apparently carved in one piece from green stone--perhaps jade. The sculptor provided excellent detailing of fine robes, and a belt, and a sword suspended from the belt.

To my surprise the statue is half animal, half human. It has the body of a powerful and well muscled man but the head of a crocodile, like Sobek, the ancient Egyptian crocodile god. And now I suddenly realize it is alive--a living being, a supernatural guardian. At this moment its eyes swivel sideways and it is looking at me, taking note of me. The look is intelligent, appraising, somehow sly, but yet not threatening.

Hancock, 'Supernatural' 2006.

A few visions by Shanon:

With the second cup I was offered, the scene changed. What was now presented to me was an enchanted city, a city of gold and precious stones. It was of indescribable beauty. And again, so very real.

And lastly, before leaving the village, I drank one cup alone. I was sitting on a balcony overlooking a garden. As the brew was having its effect, I started to sing. And as I did so, the world was being created in front of my eyes: there was water, and then land surfaced, and trees came out of the earth and flowered, and then the world was populated with birds.

On another occasion, the theme of the series was the dancing women. At least eight scenes passed consecutively before my eyes in which a woman or a group of women danced. These included a prima ballerina in a ballet performance, a hyper modern discotheque scene, a pas de deux of metal figurines, a parade of ascivious dames of ill-repute, and a very formal dance of a group of aristocratic ladies.

Here is one of the most marvellous Ayahuasca sessions I ever had--it consisted of two interlacing thematic series. The first series presented various scenes depicting the glorification of the gods in different contexts--scenes of religious rituals in various ancient civilizations as well as scenes of adoration by supernatural beings and by animals. The second series presented various scenes of dance. The first series was the primary one, and between every two successive scenes pertaining to it there appeared, as an intermezzo, a scene of the second series. The entire sequence consisted of about seventeen scenes extended over a period of almost three hours.

With ayahuasca, music sounds immensely beautiful. One's perception of minute aspects of the music is heightened and it often sounds--literally--heavenly.

Shanon 'Antipodes of the Mind' 2003.

I agree! Music is powerfully enhanced and sounds beautiful. When I first noticed the changes in sound I was perceiving...the song 'Rocketman' came on by Elton John and I was propelled to new heights of consiousness with the enhanced hearing...continuing for the rest of the session.

See you again in a couple months.

#26 cheech


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Posted 22 February 2007 - 09:49 PM

thank you all who contributed to this thread. the imagery is beautiful. y'all have shown me there is (at least) one more door to open.

#27 tregar



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Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:11 AM

yes, the imagery is beautiful...several times my jaw dropped and I said 'woooahhh' when the images appeared with closed eyes.

Just wanted to mention a few things...

When preparing caapi extract from 500grams of caapi, using 1 tablespoon of distilled white vinegar per liter of water will work fine with the long soak/cook in the crockpot. Caapi can be hammered with a sledge hammer on a sidewalk until it splits into fibers--then place the fibers in a coffee grinder or blender to blend to a powder.

Amazonian water has been tested at a slightly acidic ph of around 6.0. This is what the Shaman's brew with.

For the 200 grams psychotria (admixture):

If you plan on drinking the reduced brew instead of going down to the extract--only use 1 tablespoon of vinegar per 1 liter of water--3 liters of water would then require 3 tablespoons of vinegar. You don't want to be drinking a brew with tons of vinegar in it. But be sure to add enough water so you fill up your 4.0 liter crockpot up all the way to the top.

If you plan on brewing with lemon juice read hippie3's thread. Some say lemon causes pre-mature purging but I can't comment on that.

If you plan on brewing with phosphoric, read rocketman's thread and follow it carefully.

Cola is also a method of brewing.

If you plan on brewing all the way down to the extract which is then rolled into 1-gram buttons to swallow--then using 1 cup of vinegar to 3.0 to 3.5 liters of water works very well...your ph will approach 3.5. The 1 cup of vinegar is only added once--in the very beginning--no need to ever add any more vinegar for the subsequent 2nd and 3rd pulls...the leaf hold on to the vinegar and maintains the low ph throughout the several day crockpot brewing process. If you start with ph=3.5, then the 3rd pull a couple days later will be at 4.5. Use a 4 liter crockpot. Don't use aluminum--use a ceramic/stoneware lined crockpot or even stainless steel--never use aluminum with acids. The 200 grams of ground leaf will fill a portion of the bottom--so that's why you can't add 4 liters of water to it...but more like 3.5 liters or so along with cup of vinegar.

You scientific types like me can sacrifice 10 of these buttons, and perform a marsofold extraction on them--just do a defat x 4 with xylene in the beginning of the extract in water acidifed to ph=3 or 4.
Then follow the typical marsofold extract the rest of the process. This way, you can determine just how 'potent' your leaf/extract is...this can all be done in a small genie bottle you can find at a discount store...a micro-extraction if you will. A sep funnel helps immensely in doing a quick, efficient defat with swirling. Heat up the acidic water with extract as this helps to get the fats and oils in the buttons to dissolve into the xylene. If you do this properly, the buttons will yield beautiful snow-white xtals with shards all over--no yellow or orange or brown colors--just pure snow-white almost translucent like. This only takes an hour, then evaporate down the naptha to 1/10th and freeze it for several days--the bottom of your wide mouth jar will be full of beautiful xtals. Once you know how much 10 buttons yield...then you will know how much is in each button. For example, if you collected 70mg spice from 10 buttons, then you know that each button contains about 7mg spice. This will help you to calibrate your oral dose between 30 to 70mg (a typical aya brew).

What's more important than the acid you use is the soak time you use with your leaf and also that you grind it down in a blender to a powder--doesn't have to be fine, just a powder.

What's even more important than that is the quality of your ingredients!

All acids work the same to lower the ph of the brew. It has to do with what ph you go down to, along with soak/cook times.

A crockpot allows you to use low or high heat (185 degrees maintained in modern day crockpots on 'high' setting) for the whole process. Keep the lid on it the whole time unless you remove the lid to stir the ingredients or perform one of the three pulls on it. I kept it on the 'low' setting most of the time--especially over night--but usually turned it on 'high' for a few hours during the day.

The leaf gets plenty of time to soak and cook in the crockpot.

If you start with ph=3.5 water (1 cup of vinegar added to 3.3 liters of water with 200 grams ground leaf) will recover about 50 grams of extract in the end. This is assuming of course that you run each pull (3 pulls total, 1 pull per day) through a funnel with cotton balls attached to a glass vacuum filter flask attached to a deluxe food saver for the vacuum pull. Or you can just filter the liquid any way you know how--through a t-shirt, pillowcase, etc. Don't worry the fridge decant for 5 to 7 days will make all the rest of the sediment you didn't catch fall to the bottom so you can leave it behind.

I tested the ph by adding 5 of these buttons back to a pint of water, then checked the ph with my calibrated meter--it read ph=5.0. Similar to a beer.

You can avoid the ghastly taste of the brew by making extract and swallowing the buttons whole, washing them down with water.

I have a problem drinking caapi liquid brew--it is so intensely bitter that my face cringes and contorts. Just thinking about it makes me queasy. With swallowed extract, tastebuds get a break. You can really taste the forrest essence in her.

I call it 'her' because a voice that sounded female, seductive, futuristic announced itself before the visions began in a session. Very cosmic and astral female sounding voice heard telepathically--science fiction like--seeming to embody all of history and the future in its melodic vibrato tonality. 'What a strange place for a tea party' indeed.

#28 tregar



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Posted 23 February 2007 - 08:12 PM

I've read the book 'Antipodes of the Mind' several times and I have read the book 'DMT the Spirit Molecule' once before, but today I began reading it over again--and frankly I am shocked at the differences between the two compounds--ayahuasca on the one hand and dmt injections on the other.

With ayahuasca, you have something more like 3 indole derivatives plus tryptamine working together--similar to the chemical makeup of LSD--LSD being an indole derivative with a tryptamine top. This makes me wonder--just how important are the indoles to the overall experience? It seems to make a rather large difference in the effects. With ayahuasca and LSD I see the same types of things--my mid to high dose LSD visuals (in the distant past) are very similar to my ayahuasca visuals. With LSD I've seen egyptian pyramids, landscapes, architecture, serpents, dragons, fairies, nymphs, shamans, mayan architecture, half animal-half human beings, With ayahuasca I catch the same types of things along with scenes from history or the future--snapshots of things happening related to culture & nature, mythology, etc. Are the indoles responsible for tapping into something that works along with dmt?

Why do so many people in the book 'DMT the spirit molecule' report having 'alien encounter experiences' ? Graham also reported seeing alien entities scrambling around on printed circuit boards...he said he felt like a startled animal who wondered into a machine shop for the first time with his smoked dmt experiences but that he felt like large amounts of information were being downloaded into his brain (even though he couldn't understand any of it) similar to a computer program.

Graham's reports in his book 'supernatural' with ayahuasca are a completely different animal than smoked dmt. He also reported on his many psilocybin experiences.

Just wanted to toss that out--I highly recommend reading the book 'dmt the spirit molecule' then sit down and read 'the antipodes of the mind'. You might find yourself as startled and shocked as I was reading the differences in the reports. Then read 'supernatural' to read the reports of Hancock with both substances--sounds like a complete 360 from ayahuasca to smoked or injected dmt...from culture & nature on the one hand--to an alien technological artifically constructed world on the other...significant differences.

The potential long-term benefits from ayahuasca drinking are high but Strassman was dismayed that his participants ineffectiveness in effecting any real change in their life after injected dmt years later. It was especially disappointing to him that no one began psychotherapy or a spiritual discipline to work further on the insights they felt on DMT. The few people form whom therapy was an issue returned to therapy, or restarted antidepressants, because of relapses into depression at some point after their high-dose DMT sessions. That is, they sought help for possible adverse effects rather than capitalizing on psychological or spiritual breakthroughs from their sessions.

Strassman page 276:

Another answer became clearer only as the study progressed. This was the deep and undeniable realization that DMT was not inherently therapeutic.

However, prior to membership in the UDV where ayahuasca sessions were conducted, eleven of the UDV subjects had diagnoses of alcohol abuse disorders, two had had past major depressive disorders, four had past histories of drug abuse (cocaine and amphetamines), eleven were addicted to tobacco, and three had past phobic anxiety disorders. Five of the subjects with a history of alcoholism also had histories of violent behavior associated with binge drinking. All of these pathological diagnoses had remitted following entry into the UDV.

All of the UDV subjects interviewed reported the subjective impression that their use of hoasca tea within the context of the UDV had led to improved mental and physical health, and significant improvements in interpersonal, work, and family interactions.

Mckenna et al,. 'Investigation of ayahuasca'.

Long-term beneficial changes in the serotonin system were also recorded by the researchers.

Graham Hancock reported that his 16 ayahuasca sessions cured his debilitating migraine headaches which he normally had of about a dozen a month all his life. The migraine headaches never returned after doing the ayahuasca sessions to this day.

Hancock, 'Interview on coast to coast am' December 28, 2006 & September 28, 2006.

Books of interest on this subject:

DMT, The Spirit Molecule -- Rick Strassman, M.D. 2001

The Antipodes of the Mind -- Benny Shanon, 2003

Supernatural, Meetings with the Ancient teachers of mankind -- Graham Hanock, 2005

#29 AndyLandy420



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Posted 24 February 2007 - 05:54 AM

where do you fellas find your phosphoric acid?

#30 tregar



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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:26 AM

Food grade phosphoric acid is found at beer brewing supply places -- if you search the net, many will come up.

Stick with vinegar if you plan to brew down to an extract, as much of the vinegar tends to evaporate off when the extract starts to dry in the last stages--vinegar evaporates cleanly leaving no residue behind...however there will still be some vinegar in the extract due to its gummy consistency.

Phosphoric acid will not evaporate from the extract and may become too concentrated in the extract so that is why no one has ever attempted it. Use it for brewing a drinkable brew only but follow the instructions carefully by Rocketman or NapoleanBlownapart (aya forum).

This is the only post on phosphoric that worried me (serious physical problems):

To this day, I'm still trying to figure out how he managed to knock his brew down to the ph of battery acid--if anyone can explain please do so. When he measured the ph of his brew -- it was 1.5...please dont drink anything with that low of a ph--it's just not healthy. He must of kept concentrating down his brew until it became lower and lower (remember when using phosphoric acid, that theoretically it is possible to push your brew down to nearly the same ph as food grade phosphoric acid, which I measured at 1.0 right out of the plastic bottle from the beer brewing place).

If you are going to brew with food grade phosphoric acid, please measure the ph of the final brew you are going to drink -- or at least follow the instructions very carefully.

Just don't go crazy by adding too much of it. An electronic calibrated ph meter with ph=4 and ph=7 calibration buffer solutions is a handy thing to have to check ph with.

Here are some readings I took myself with my very expensive accurate handy dandy calibrated ph meter:
(except for stomach & battery acid--these are from literature)

Beverages pH
Milk 6.5
Distilled water 5.8
Beer 4.0-5.0 (bud light = 4.2)
Coffee 2.5-3.5
Orange juice 3.5
Soft drinks 2.0-4.0
Heinz distilled white vinegar 2.5 (right out of the bottle)
lemon juice 2.5 (squeezed from one whole lemon)
Cola 2.5 (coca-cola right out of the can)
Wines 2.3-3.8
(Stomach acid) 1.0-2.0
10% food grade phosphoric acid 1.0 (right out of the bottle from beer making supplier--not diluted in water but poured into a glass cup, then ph meter was stuck into the liquid--returned a ph of 1.0).
(Battery acid) 1.0

NOTE: I have noticed that several suppliers who carry hawaiian chacruna have either sold out or have gotten way behind in orders--be patient there may be more in the future. I never expected the thread to generate so much interest in good quality but thats what happens sometimes. There is other good quality chacruna out there from all different countries--keep looking and searching and asking around if you are having problems.

#31 rocketman



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Posted 24 February 2007 - 11:22 AM

Well, the food grade phosphoric I use is 10%. Beerbeerandmorebeer carries it for a couple bucks a bottle. An actual coke has more phosphoric acid than a diluted brew with 10%.

#32 tregar



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Posted 24 February 2007 - 11:29 AM

An actual coke has more phosphoric acid than a diluted brew with 10%.

Yes, very true.

The guy in the post above from 2003 must have added way too much acid to his brew or concentrated it down to an insane level.

It is very safe and effective to use from all other posts I have read. I have several bottles of the 10% food grade phosphoric acid myself from a similar beer making supplier like you've mentioned.

I went ahead and added 2 teaspoons of 10% phosphoric acid to a gallon of distilled water (like he did) and this is the ph the meter returned: 2.3 ph.

If I recall, you are supposed to only add 15 drops to 1500ml water, then later on you only add 7 drops to 1500ml water.

The objective in the 1st soak is to reach a ph of 3.0

The guy in the post above went overboard using 2 teaspoons per 3800mL (works out to 1 teaspoon per 1900mL) that he used. There is a big difference between 15 drops in 1500ml (the correct way) and nearly 1 teaspoon in 1500mL!

It just took me 100 drops to fill up 1 this guy used more like 80 drops instead of 15 drops like he was supposed to.

He should have been using a dropper and not a teaspoon and the proper amounts of water--not creating his own method.

So then, when he reduced (concentrated his brew) down to a small level, the 80 drops of 10% food grade phosphoric acid then became too concentrated approaching somewhere around 1.5ph or so.

I paid around $3 a bottle for it--my bottles read "Phosphoric Acid (4oz) -- 10% solution" in a small plastic bottle.

I have two ph meters and ph=4, ph=7 buffer solution to ensure accurate precise calibration.

People, if you are going to use 10% food grade phosphoric acid--it is safe and very effective--just follow the directions by Rocketman or NapoleanBlownapart ie hummingbird method--don't try and make up your own method with it.

#33 Dagger



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Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:17 PM

The gelatin I believe is an alternative to the decanting for 7 days in a fridge.
You can choose one or the other.

Actually, there is quite a difference between decanting and using gelatin. You can decant as much as you want, most of the tannins will stay behind. Just take a taste of the mimosa brew after decanting, it will still have a very strong acrid taste that will stick to your tongue. With gelatin you can remove this completely.
Recently another method has come to my attention, that not only removes tannins, but also clears the brew of all particles that can make the brew hazy. Just add egg white to a cold brew, then warm it up till it is cooking. Take if off the stove and scoop out the clumps of egg white that has formed. After this is done, the brew should be crystal clear. I have not done this method myself on mimosa, so cannot attest to its effficiency at removing tannins, but the albumen in egg whites does precipitate out tannins. Gelatin is a potent tannin remover, so might be more efficient, but it does not remove all other particles. Egg white clears up pretty much any kind of brew, be it calea, tribulus or caapi.

Am currently testing another method with mimosa that takes away just about all taste of the brew. Smells like earth. Can swoosh it around in the mouth without any feeling of nastiness.

#34 tregar



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Posted 25 February 2007 - 05:53 PM

hey it's dagger!

Good to see you. Yeah, dagger's come up with some cool methods. I'm no expert on gelatin or egg-white with brews--so listen to dagger if you have questions about how to do this -- a promising excellent method.

I would love to see Art Bell or George Noory interview Benny Shanon (drank ayahuasca over 120 times) one-day.

I've heard 3 interviews with Graham Hancock (drank ayahuasca over 16 times) on coast to coast within the past year allready -- the last was on Dec 29 2006.

There was an interview with DR. Strassman a few months ago--but the DR. had to bail out of the interview because he was sick -- couldn't finish the interview.

I've got some new caapi extract drying right now that I'm getting ready to roll up into buttons for use in the coming months.

#35 tregar



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Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:07 PM

I thought you guys might find this interesting.

Along time ago in the past with high-dose LSD (over 10 hits all at once) I saw visuals with open eyes that were 3 feet high by about 3 feet wide and they included:

An egyptian pyramid floating in mid-air--it shone as if a spotlight was being thrown on it--it looked as if newly created--had an outer layer of some kind of limestone or something that shone brightly with bands of gold all over it--it was surrounded by the Egyptian sands which sparkled. My jaw dropped and I exclaimed 'wooooahhhhhh'.

The second thing I saw was 2 serpents in the air about 3 feet long -- intertwining with each other--just like the DNA pictures you see all the time.

The third thing I saw were 2 dragons about 3 feet long--they were menacing and awe-inspiring--they had all kinds of cool patterns all over them and many of the patterns were in gold.

Other images I saw were 3 miniature angels made of white light (nymphs? fairies?) dancing in a circle around a bush in the front yard--they were holding hands. Hancock said this was common in the olden days--fairies dancing in a circle perhaps to mark "a portal" or link to another dimension, etc.

The rest of the imagery was closed eye visuals of very complex geometrics spinning and morphing, changing colors, etc.

Now tell me--this was about a decade ago--Why in the world was high dose LSD showing me the same things that people on ayahuasca see all the time? I didn't even know of ayahuasca back then--where do these visions come from of serpents, dragons & architecture? The experience was immensely spiritual just as ayahuasca is. Both compounds send you through a beginning short stage of 'feelings of being invaded' as Shaonon described it--uncomfortable feelings (an energy taking over) in the very beginning which passes after about 60 minutes to reveal the heavenly beautiful visual & spiritual realm.

These are messages being communicated to us I feel.

Now, when taking ayahuasca, the same kinds of visuals & visions manifest!

They are often 3-dimensional and can sometimes be seen with open eyes -- the same way the high-dose LSD visuals appeared to me. Gold & silver are predominant colors.

Now check this out:

Read the following few papers to learn what I'm talking about:

5. Serotonin Receptor Signaling and Hallucinogen Action (pp:73-79)

Charles D.Nichols,Ph.D.,Elaine Sanders-Bush,Ph.D.

6. LSD and its Lysergamide Cousins (pp:80-87)

David E.Nichols,Ph.D.

10. The Scientific Investigation of Ayahuasca: A Review of Past and Current Research

Dennis J. McKenna, Ph.D., J.C. Callaway, Ph.D and Charles S. Grob, M.D. .

LSD in 2003 research by has been shown to target 5HT2 and 5HT1 receptors very strongly but, get this, it also targets the D2 dopamine receptor very strongly.

Guess what, ayahuasca was found in recent research to target 5HT2 and 5HT1 receptors as well as the D2 dopamine receptor:


The q-EEG profile supports the role of 5-HT2 and dopamine D2-receptor agonism in mediating the effects of ayahuasca on the central nervous system.
Riba J, Barbanoj, MJ.

The THH in caapi is known to be a mild serotonin reuptake inhibitor that possibly potentiates and extends the half-life of dmt that makes it to the brain. But in the prescence of harmine & harmaline, the THH may just become a stronger serotonin reuptake inhibitor as well as a dopamine and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor--there is a lot going on when you drink a caapi brew or swallow the extract. There are 3 tricyclic indole derivatives in caapi--harmine, tetrahydroharmine (thh), and harmaline. LSD and ibogaine are complex indole derivatives. It sounds as if there is a whole cascade of receptor effects that are taking place to modify behavior and perceptions similar to how LSD causes a complex cascade of receptor targeting (see the paper LSD and it's lysergic cousins).

Classic discussion from here at Mycotopia (notice the distinction/comparisons between mushroom and ayahuasca visuals):


After the geometrics I have a very intense visionary phase which lasts about 30-60 mins. then the trip rapidly subsides to a low level for a few hours and I go to bed.


Ayahuasca is not as bad as you think it is. I would consider it to be "sort" of like a "bemushroomed" trip, but far more lucid and mature. The visuals are somewhat like those encountered with the mushroom, but far more complex. I have seen the usually "jungle" type visions, complex geometric vision, visions of "cities", and visions not unlike those painted by Alex Grey. The major difference I have noted is that the experience is much more strait forward and serious.


I'm glad you agree with the purple and blues and have seen cities and jungle stuff too. Have you seen lots of silver and gold? That is the key thing that Aya has above shrooms.

I agree with the geometrics being far more complex,colourful and vivid. Shrooms can be very spiritual but often they can fall flat. Ayahuasca seems to always be profound and spiritual, and the visions have a feeling of depth and reality that shrooms could never give.

I can't help thinking back at some amazing silver chrome corkscrew visuals I had, embedded in kaleidescope colours. So damn vivid it was almost as if I had my eyes open looking at some computer screen playing these visuals.

They are so solid and in-your-face, so clear. You can look around and examine them. If you try that with shroom visuals they disappear.

Have you ever heard music, something like slow carribean barrel drums or soft tonal gongs? I'm sure I heard some other musical stuff but I can't remember the detail.

Have you ever felt like you were changing into someone else or looking through someone else's eyes?

Do you usually get a geometric phase of tripping first which then develops into the proper visionary trip?


It's hard to separate the visuals from the feelings of healing and insight. They go hand in hand. The type of visuals in the ad would be in the later part of the trip. The early stage is more geometric and abstract.

I don't think it's necessary to take mega-doses of shrooms to prepare for Aya. As long as you are used to handling fairly potent trips then you are ok. Aya can be very strong in comparison to shrooms but in a pleasant way.

Link to tv ad online:


This advert gives a taste of what Ayahausca is like. Dig them purple flowers! The ocean! The metallic fairies!

Also, this ad expresses to some degree what Ayahuasca is like for me personally when it works well. Maybe other people wouldn't see the same type of stuff. It is the only piece of art I have seen which I felt could give a non-drinker some idea of what the Aya trip can provide. And cool as the ad is, the Ayahuasca is a lot better!


Many of the beautifully detailed descriptions of particular visions are worth the price of the book alone .
(concerning Shanon's book)

Interesting, isn't it?

Edited by Sidestreet, 06 September 2015 - 07:59 PM.

#36 AndyLandy420



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Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:30 AM

so is phosphoric acid brew safe to reduce in a stainless steel pot? or is it reactive with metal like hcl?

#37 elijah36608



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Posted 01 March 2007 - 12:31 PM

Where can I find phosphoric acid?? I only just used vinegar.:puke:

#38 tregar



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Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:31 PM

I used heinz distilled white vinegar (it has a ph of 2.5 right out of the bottle). For a drinkable brew, one tablespoon works to 1 liter of water.

10% food grade phosphoric acid (has a ph of 1.0 right out of the bottle) -- so follow the directions by rocketman or napoleanblownapart carefully when using this acid--use the correct amount of drops and check the final ph of your brew if possible with ph paper (a few bucks) or a meter if you have one if you reduced it down a whole lot.

Do not use 10% food grade phosphoric when brewing down to the extract--it does not evaporate off the extract--but rather concentrates to absurdly low ph levels in the extract (1.0 to 1.5)--No one has ever used it for this purpose and no one ever should--stick with vinegar--it evaporates cleanly and leaves no residue behind--and whatever vinegar is left in the gummy extract is safe to consume--the ph of my final extract buttons was between 4 and 5 using vinegar to brew with.

You can find it for a few bucks at beer brewing supplier places on-line.

You can find heinz distilled white vinegar at your grocery store.

I always use corningware dishes 2.5 liter when reducing brews down to a cup or two that I then evaporate down to the extract.

It is best with phosphoric to stick with corningware or stainless steel. Do not use aluminum pots with anything acidic whether it be vinegar or phosphoric.

Somebody please correct me if stainless steel is not safe with phosphoric--I will have to check into this some more.

These are readings I took myself with calibrated meter (last two, battery acid and stomach acid are of course from literature though).

Beverages pH
Milk 6.5
Amazonian water 6.0 (from literature, what the shamans brew with)
Distilled water 5.8
Beer 4.0-5.0 (bud light = 4.2)
Coffee 2.5-3.5
Orange juice 3.5
Soft drinks 2.0-4.0
Heinz distilled white vinegar 2.5 (right out of the bottle)
lemon juice 2.5 (squeezed from one whole lemon)
Cola 2.5 (coca-cola right out of the can)
Wines 2.3-3.8
(Stomach acid) 1.0-2.0
10% food grade phosphoric acid 1.0 (right out of the bottle from beer making supplier--not diluted in water but poured into a glass cup, then pH meter was stuck into the liquid--returned a pH of 1.0).
(Battery acid) 1.0

#39 Hippie3



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Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:35 PM

. caapi can be hammered with a sledge hammer on a sidewalk until it splits into fibers--then place the fibers in a coffee grinder or blender to blend to a powder.

that's doing it the hard way,
in my vaults thread
>> Here <<
i cut caapi into sections,
placed them in quarts of water
and pc 'd them,
after the caapi was soft and pliable
i was able to hand process it with just scissors

Edited by Sidestreet, 06 September 2015 - 08:01 PM.

#40 tregar



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Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:41 PM

Thats an easier way that hippie3 gives to do it--and a great link by the way--I've read it twice.

I put it into a plastic baggie then hammered it into fibers on the sidewalk--then put the fibers into a coffee grinder and ground to sawdust.

I once tried to saw a piece of caapi in two with a saw but It took me nearly half an hour just to cut it in two...this is some serious wood folks.

As an avid weight lifter, I love to pound and smash stuff.

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