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Too much sugar in LC


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#1 chill

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:14 PM

Hi,

I recently had a LC syringe fail completely. Zero germination.

I think the problem was that my sugar content in the water was probably close to 10% which at the time I knew was sub-optimal but didn't think it would stop the spores from germinating.

Is this possible?

ps, I germinate a complete print inside a 30cc syringe for a week and then innoculate PF jars as normal.

#2 Hippie3

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 03:29 PM

indeed possible
4% is all you want

#3 dial8

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:51 AM

A teaspoon in 100 ml of water works fine.

#4 chill

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:04 PM

One teaspoon is 5ml which is 5% so that makes sense.

I have another syringe down right now at 4% so I'll test it this weekend.

#5 hyphaenation

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:35 PM

I used 2 teaspoons karo in 500 ml water for 1/2 pint LC ,and a tiny bit of light malt powder in a few other karo jars. So far they are clouding but no discernable mycelium other than what came out of the 2 cc drop from the syringe. I was shkaing 3 times daily (swirling actually) but now will let it sit for and mellow for a couple days. Its been 4 days sice starting the LC batch.

Does 2 teaspoons karo to 500 mil distilled water sound reasonable? also in BB's tek it mentions this recipe but with 6 mg LME malt, how would one get 6 mg's on the spoon or is that suppose to be 6 mil?

thanks

#6 chill

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:19 PM

5% of 500 is 25mi. Two teaspoons are 10 mil so your using 2% or 1/2 of what is recommended.

If this is part of a successful tek then 10% would likely be WAY too much.

#7 hyphaenation

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:28 PM

Expanding cultures through LC is an important technique to master. LCs will save you a lot of money on spores and open the door to cloning your best fruits later on. If you add agar to the recipe below, you can pour your own Petri dishes and slants.

Parts/ingredients list:
  • 500mL DISTILLED water
  • 2 Teaspoons of Karo Syrup
  • Pinch (less than .1mg) of bee pollen
  • *TINY* amount of unscented dish washing detergent or Jet Dry
  • 6 mg of Light Malt Extract (from here on, LME; I like the Sporeworks brand)
  • 6 mg of Dextrose (I like the Sporeworks brand)
  • 6 clear glass marbles OR a small pile of broken glass.
  • 2 pint jars
  • 2 jar lids with silicone injector ports (but no tyvek vents)
  • 2 jar bands to secure lids
  • Pressure Cooker capable of maintaining 5psi
  • incubator capable of maintaining 84F
  • Scale capable of measuring in .1 gm increments



This is what I used but I had no dextrose. I only used a small amount of LME because 6 mg sounds like a very small amount. This TEK is part of the Banzai Institute : https://mycotopia.ne...–-how-and-why…/

I'm confused now as to whether i'm at half strength or not. I belive shaking to much may have stalled , but i've seen results of constant stirring on here.

Edited by Sidestreet, 20 September 2015 - 08:41 AM.


#8 chill

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:59 PM

In addition to the karo there are entries for both malt extract and dextrose (both sources of sugars). Assuming mg is equivalent to ml then there would be 22ml of sugars or 4.4%

Perfect.

Random thoughts:
1. dextrose is pretty close to plain sugar I believe. You should be able to get away with the regular table type variety.
2. If you can't find dextrose specifically karo should substitue. Karo is a fancy word for corn syrup. Easy to get.
2. What exactly is a 'tiny amount' of jet dry. Jet dry is used (if I remember corectly) to break up spores and prevent clumping.

Overall this seems very complicated compared to 4% karo...


Good luck. Let us know how it works out.

#9 chill

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:00 PM

WOW!!!! BB really put a lot of work into that post. Lots of knowledge in there. Definately not a beginner tek.

:bow:

#10 hyphaenation

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:36 PM

I was trying to ascertain what 6 mg was and I came to the conclusion that it wasnt very much at all, like the tip of a spoons worth. Am I wrong on that? How much in a teaspoon would 6 mg of LME be? I've seen other simpler LC recipes that state approximately one teaspoon for 250 ml. Could someone please set me straight as to the right amount of karo in 500 mils of water?

I want to make a good batch and may have 2 different enemic batches ie: low blood sugar lol

#11 chill

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:45 PM

To answer your question: 4% sugar.

Therefore, 500 ml of water should require ~25ml of Karo.

I say '~' (approximately) since measuring karo to this degree of accuracy is beyond the average persons ability.

Use a set of measuring spoons, load up 25ml's and add to water until the measuring spoon stops dripping. Should give you what you want.

#12 hyphaenation

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:54 PM

I don't have metric measring spoons , but I guess I need some. I was just hoping that a standard spoon measurement could be used like say 2 teaspoons karo + 1/2 teaspoon malt for 500 mil water. I'll figure it out one way or the other.

#13 chill

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:02 AM

One teaspoon is 5ml so you want 5 teaspoons of Karo for 500ml of water.

I assume you can use LME exactly as karo and they are therefore interchangable.

#14 hyphaenation

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 01:48 AM

Ive just read up and your right 5 teaspoons for 500 mil or to keep it simple 1 teaspoon karo / 100 mil of water. There for i'm less than half strength. Damn and I gave back a loaned PC. Can I "sterilize" a bunch of karo water concentrate on the stove and then suck it up in the glove box and add it to the jars of enemic karo water?


and just to reinforce that dial8 mentioned 1 tsp to 100 mill earlier in this thread. DOH I need glasses perhaps.

#15 hyphaenation

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 04:20 AM

To answer my own question after careful reading , which is said here there and everywhere :

Use 1 Level Teaspoon of Light Corn Syrup (Karo Syrup or the "no-name" store brand of Light Corn Syrup) per 100 ml of purified water. Mix it well to distribute the heavy syrup into the water.

You can use an empty syringe to measure out 100cc, many jars are graduated Posted Image


from: http://archives.myco...html?1037043810



or from Dial 8 earlier in this very thread

A teaspoon in 100 ml of water works fine.



#16 hyphaenation

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 10:53 AM

I'm at a loss now as to wether I should try to inject some sterile karo/water into my starved LC jars (in the glovebox with airport) or wether I should just leave them enemic (2 tbs karo / 500 mill water)... or should I scrap them and reuse the jars with the right proportions, which is what I think i'll do...

#17 hyphaenation

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 01:15 PM

Pardon me for replying 3 times in a row. I just wanted to say that I did indeed "airport" in some karo water to the starved LC jars (inside the glovebox) using hippie3's airport technique: http://mycotopia.net...ad.php?p=194919

I also scrapped a couple and started over with the right sugar mixture. After 24 hours the difference is huge. Mycelium is plainly seen growing in the jars with the correct sugar levels. Also on good advice I stopped shaking/swirling the jars daily until some growth appears. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks In Advance

#18 Hippie3

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 01:19 PM

one can get by with lower % like 2% ok.

#19 hyphaenation

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 05:48 PM

I had an LC question , but did'nt want to make a whole new thread. Thanks Chill for the use of yours...

When PC'ing LC jars , do you put the lid rubber down ie: sealed or facing up? I have read a few places where people say go up and dont can. I made mine rubber down and used the airport syringe to releave pressure before innoculating. I forgot the airport once and witnessed the suction power of the jar :amazed:

#20 Hippie3

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 06:55 PM

down is better, it's how the lid was designed to work/seal too.




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