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Decarboxylation question


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#1 Invitro

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:43 PM

Decarboxylation of THC happens at 106c/220f and a
pressure cooker at 5psi is 109c/228f. So my question
is, could someone put bud in a pint jar with the lid on
and the ring loose as if canning and PC for 30 minutes
to make the THC active for ingestion.

#2 Foster

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 01:02 AM

Doesnt it need to lose its water molecule in order for decarboxylation to occur? Would the water in the pc get into the jar? Interesting idea. I had also wondered if cured/dry material could be sealed in jars with the hot water canning method. Long term storage? foster:rasta:

#3 silent

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 02:34 PM

Doesnt it need to lose its water molecule in order for decarboxylation to occur? Would the water in the pc get into the jar? Interesting idea. I had also wondered if cured/dry material could be sealed in jars with the hot water canning method. Long term storage? foster:rasta:


decarboxylation is the break off of co2 not water

i would figure the idea in the pc would take a lil longer than 30 mins at that temp to make sure the chemical completely broke down, the listing i saw said 10 mins at 200c. from what i understand you could cause the same breakdown by completely desicating it.

no water should get inot the jar, since it would be a solid lid.

and for dry material, using the jars, lids and a vacuum sealer works alot faster that pc'ing it, no reason to sterilize, so the sealer does a 15-20 min job in 30 secs

#4 Hippie3

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 02:54 PM

i dunno about a pc but
i've done it in a microwave set on lowest
careful though,
i burned a couple batches too
so short intervals, low power.
but it will get the job done,
albeit with some potency loss
compared to a proper cure-dry.

#5 Mycophage

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 03:39 PM

what exactly do you mean by active for ingestion?

#6 silent

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:27 PM

i dunno about a pc but
i've done it in a microwave set on lowest
careful though,
i burned a couple batches too
so short intervals, low power.
but it will get the job done,
albeit with some potency loss
compared to a proper cure-dry.


reminds me of my old microwave herb'n'cheese breakfast burritos,

#7 Foster

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 10:49 AM

I wasnt talking about sterilizing lol. I meant canning. Heat water, dip jars with lids, and pop! they seal. Like canning tomatoes. 30-40 seconds per jar.
heres two different snippets basically saying the same thing. With editorial by me.lol " Decarboxylation must occur by drying prior to it’s combustion that occurs with smoking (this does not occur when attempting to smoke uncured marijuana), drying must also occur before eating marijuana, if it is to produce a euphoric effect.. Before drying, decarboxylation of inactive THCA acid into delta9 THC has not yet occurred. During the curing (drying) process, the COOH bonded to the THCA is released. The result is marijuana’s psychoactive compound delta9 THC." So as I said, The material must also lose its water molecule for decarbox to occur. Though decarbox is technically the break off of co2 in scientific terms, Marijuana must lose the entire carbon group/chain. " Marijuana produces THCA, an acid with the carboxylic group (COOH) attached. In its acid form, THC is not very active. It is only when the carboxyl group is removed that THC becomes psychoactive. When marijuana is smoked, the THC behind the hot spot is vaporized as the hot air from the burn is drawn through the joint or pipe bowl to the unburned material. The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200° C (355-392° F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106° C (220° F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor. " I stole that quote from Ed R off cc's site foster

#8 Invitro

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 10:58 AM

what exactly do you mean by active for ingestion?


"From an online source"
"A conversion of THC acids into the pharmacologically active phenols-chemically a decarboxylation process (separation and release of carbon dioxide)-is accomplished most effectively by heating.

Ingested cannabis can take up to 2 hours to take effect and the buzz is
extremely strong and long lasting.

http://en.wikipedia....Decarboxylation

http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=19230

#9 Mycophage

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:36 PM

why not just cook the buds in oil? seems much easier and it gets me good... i've smoked flowers in desperation right off the plant and got ripped... so i don't know how much of a difference this really makes... and what removes the carboxyl group? just the act of drying? no enzyme? and the water molecule? so is the chemical first dehydrogenated then decarboxylated? this is all so confusing...

okay, just reread post... so this happens as it is burned or vaporized... heat energy is applied to decarboxylate... okay, but what about the water molecule?

#10 Foster

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:05 AM

"The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200° C (355-392° F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106° C (220° F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor" . quoted from ed rosenthal cc mag. Seriously mycophage, It makes a HUGE difference. FME there is no comparison between wet and dry. lol Over 25 yrs of trying and I have yet to get a good buzz off wet product. A buzz maybe, but not much of one. Make mine extra crispy please! and thank you! hehe Oh and I like a lil Oil now n then myseslf! Makes great brownies. foster

#11 Mycophage

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:19 AM

i must read more carefully.... so does this happen during drying or heating... now that i read it again it seems to be contradicting itself... starts off by saying that it happens during drying then says during heating.... are they sure that decarboxylation doesn't happen in planta ? has anybody really elucidated the biosynthetic pathway of THC production? how would that explain me getting couch-lock ass-ripped drooling off of flowers that are straight off the plant and into my bong? obviously there is activity from the get-go... or maybe this is indicative of mr. rosenthal's assertion, that it happens as it burns

this is interesting, i absolutely hated chemistry when i took it... it wasn't until i started taking plant physiology that chemistry actually got interesting to me... gave me a reason to care i guess lol

#12 Foster

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 12:21 PM

Decarbox occurs during both heating and drying. A well dried/cured bud has already lost most of its chain. Heating (not burning), is drying. Notice Ed says the area under the hot spot is heated. If its super crispy, inside and out, it has already decarbolylated, wether its from heating til dry, or a long cure/dry. Heating just speeds the already naturally occuring process along. Ingesting thoroughly dried product, can produce about the same effects as heated.

#13 Invitro

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:39 PM

I have eaten well cured well dried bud and got nothing
and then took the same bud and made Firecrackers then
2 hours later I was almost too high. The reason I started
this Thread is I'm trying to find a way to make marijuana
active for ingestion but not to use alcohol or oil so the bud
stays dry so it can be loaded into gel-caps.

#14 Foster

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:54 PM

If it would stay dry in the pc, that would work. It can also be placed in an oven at 150f for 15 min. Well below the point to boil off thc, but plenty hot enough to decarboxylate. What then? Powder and pack into capsules? I'm gonna have to give that a try using some dry filtered trichomes. :bow:

#15 TVCasualty

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:52 PM

Refluxing in alcohol, as during extractions, also decarboxylates the THC. Since you said you wanted it dry, you could simmer the whole bud in alcohol for a short time, then evaporate the alcohol off while leaving the bud in the pot. When the alcohol is gone the THC will be back in the bud (with some scraping of the sides) and decarboxylated. I did this once in order to try isomerizing the THC, then putting it back on the bud, and it worked well but made for an ugly looking bud.

BTW: Oil doesn't dissolve gelcaps, so mixing some extracted herb oil in with a little butter would allow the oil to be put in the caps and be too viscous to seep out, especially if refrigerated. There would be a lot of THC in each cap that way...

As for using a PC, I think a really small test bud might be needed... it's an interesting question. I'd think the bud would be really wet afterwards, as in soaked, though it may be active.

A friend of mine has often taken a small bud with him to shows, and before going in he puts it between his teeth and gums like chewing tobacco, and just kind of gnaws on it until it's about gone, then spits out the stem. He claims to always get a great buzz after about an hour, though I have not tried this myself. (He's a college professor not prone to BS'ing about stuff like that).

#16 Invitro

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 03:58 PM

According to Ed Rosenthal when using a Coldfinger extractor the temps
don't reach decarboxylation temps. Yes you have hash oil but it hasnt
been decarboxylated yet. until you vaporise or smoke it.

Ed's quote
You will be extracting the THC using low heat in the commercially made Coldfinger Extractor. The THC will not reach a temperature in which decarboxylation takes place. However, if you plan to vaporize or smoke the extract decarboxylation will take place as the oil is used.

I'm not wanting to have to extract the oil then have to decarboxylate it too,
I just tring to find a way to do an easy ,dry and reproducible decarboxylation
of straight bud that can be ground into a powder and loaded to a couple of
OO capsules for easy dosing while travelling.

#17 Hippie3

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 04:25 PM

time will do that job nicely, just let it age.

#18 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 06:05 PM

Those Coldfinger extractors look cool, this was the first time I'd seen one.

The one I use, in it's literature, claims that the decarb'ing is done during the extraction, which occurs at a higher temp than in the Coldfinger. I haven't verified it yet, but I'm thinking the boiling point of the denatured alcohol I use (pre-distilled twice before I use it) is increased by the high oil concentration, possibly enough to hit the decarb temp (220 degrees F). I guess I have to verify this for certain now. It may be wrong info, although the isomerization I also do after the extraction definitely boosts potency from 2-5X, depending on starting material, so at least some of what I've read is accurate! I should mention in the interest of full disclosure that the procedure I'm following was written in 1976. :o

Be that as it may, dissolving the oil in some edible cooking oil (I recommend coconut oil, which can handle high heat so goes rancid slower and is solid at normal room temperature), simmering for a few minutes like when making brownies, then putting into capsules when still just barely warm enough to pour would be something worth trying, I'd guess. I happen to have some herb oil right now, so I think tomorrow I'll get the gelcaps and coconut oil and post results later this week. I think I like the idea of oil caps...

#19 I_am_me

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 10:42 PM

I have eaten well cured well dried bud and got nothing
and then took the same bud and made Firecrackers then
2 hours later I was almost too high. The reason I started
this Thread is I'm trying to find a way to make marijuana
active for ingestion but not to use alcohol or oil so the bud
stays dry so it can be loaded into gel-caps.


Check out Canabrex, its a kit you can buy to make pills from dry bud, kief or whatever.

#20 Invitro

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:43 PM

Thank you I am me, I think I'm going to try
Cannabrex' 3x kit and see if it really works.




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