Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Soaking to hatch endospores... Good/Bad??


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,713 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:00 PM

hey there, this is a response I made to a post over at shroomery... it was a reply that someone made about popcorn being the worst possible grain to use as spawn... and that one of the reasons was due to the excess endospores it has than other grains. also has info on why they usually (at least in my case) went bad due to bacteria... which was starch build up at the bottom and wasn't redistributed after pcing, allowing for ideal growing perimeters for any small amount of endospores that may have survived the pc and these endospores have, like the starch, been washed down to the bottom of the jar where there is very little Oxygen, there they reproduce rapidly until you shake and thats when you find out that your jar went bad, usually after the shake. then there are many many more bacteria producing more bacteria and more bacterial waste products making the kernels slimy and myc. growth halts.

well... i've used popcorn A LOT... thats all i used for like two years. it's not that bad at all. It's actually the fastest colonizer I know. It's super easy to get the moisture right. wbs sucks in that department. as far as the endospores go... I had better luck not soaking the corn. if you soak the corn and hatch the endospores, it actually acts against you. because if you let the corn soak even a little bit too long, those bacteria will reproduce exponentially and each one of those new cells will form new endospores. Not sure if you all know how an endospore is formed or not but ... not all bacteria can make them. EACH cell makes an endospore when it is in an environment that is unfavorable... esp. heat. I just did this in a lab last week. we boiled a pure broth culture of Bacillus Cereus for ten minutes... then we smeared out on a slide and did a differential stain.. EVERY CELL produced an endospore within the cell and will eventually lyse. so unless you are really good at telling when you bacteria are hatching, soaking to kill endospores is pointless. better off just going straight to the pc from the bag. And why would popcorn have anymore endospores than any other grain? If you failed at popcorn, you more than likely didn't rinse it well enough. any small amount of starch left over will probably send your jar south. but it's easy to avoid... rinse with hot water, this will keep the starch from coagulating on the kernels. and dry with a paper towel or some kind of towel. if you just leave it to air dry, the left over starch will still be on the kernels until you pc again. you WILL have water in the bottom of your jars after the second pc no matter what, but as long as you dried your kernels, it will be a small enough amount that all you do is shake the jar like mad after you take it out of the pc, this redistributes that water to the kernels in the jar.

this is how I prepare corn... it's really easy.
Popcorn prep. - First, put your corn in the pc without your jar rack (the plate the pc comes with to keep the jars off the bottom of the pc.) and cover with at least three inches of water.
you can probably go a little less once you get the hang of how much the dry kernels will absorb. on average the kernel will expand 3 times it's size.
Now pc at 15 psi for 1 hour. after an hour, turn off the pc and left the pressure adjust back to zero... once the safety nob drops, you can unscrew the lid. be very careful.. the pc will still be very hot. don't let the steam get ya in the face.
Now pour the corn into a strainer. I rinse off the corn with hot water first. the kernels will have lots of starch on them.. if you rinse with cold water first the starch will coegulate making it a bitch to get off. rinsing is a very important part of the process... you want to get the kernels as free from starch as possible. once you've rinsed with hot water... rinse with cold. this will cool the kernels down making them easier to handle and also 'tighten' the kernel up making it not so mooshy.
once rinsed, i let the corn sit for a few minutes to drain. Next i lay down a piece of paper towel and lay the corn on top of that in a single kernel layer. then i place another piece of paper towel on top of the corn layer and roll my hands lightly over the corn.

again, it's not what you use, it's how you use it. :wink:

fahtster


fahtster

#2 troutlips

troutlips

    VIP Moderator

  • Expired Member
  • 1,415 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:22 PM

Awesome post Faht!
I've been doing popcorn over two years now and I just learned a bunch! :D
That answers why I've been having some failures lately.:(
I hope.:eusa_shif

#3 the_other_chap

the_other_chap

    The Whelk of Reason

  • Expired Member
  • 919 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:16 PM

Nice one, Fahty :)

I've just started a couple of jars of popcorn using your tek, and they're doing OK so far.

#4 Guest_greysRDbest_*

Guest_greysRDbest_*
  • Guest

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:40 PM

thanks for taking the time to share that fahtster!:bow:

#5 Guest_DaGoon_*

Guest_DaGoon_*
  • Guest

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:58 PM

corn.jpg

same way i do it fahtster.. nary a problem!!
but ive been going ahead and putting my PC under the water faucet to
let me get the p-corn out, right after its done cooking.
you just run cold water over it and the pressure drops in about 5 - 10 secs
a tip trout told me about!

also i fan dry mine (after straining).. i put them in a big tub (or laundry basket) with a towel on the bottom, and a box fan on the ridges. i stir them around every 15-30 minutes to make sure everything is evenly drying.. this makes sure they are good and dry, ready for another round of pcing. Fan drying would be good for when you are doing a good bit of popcorn, and you dont want to waste towels

im relatively new to popcorn, but ive only lost maybe 2 out of the 50 jars ive made!!

#6 Mermaidia

Mermaidia

    Sober Sister

  • Expired Member
  • 4,173 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:02 PM

Thank you so much for sharing Faht! :eusa_clap:bow:
FOAF hated popcorn, because of the rate of contams that one got. FOAF will have to try popcorn again using this method.

#7 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,713 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:11 PM

np :) hey OTC, would you say thats about how it happened? little bit of water in the bottom when you get done pc'ing the qts and when you shook them... it basically disappeared?

cool Dagoon, jar looks nice and healthy... of those couple that you lost, were they lost to bacteria?

fahtster

#8 the_other_chap

the_other_chap

    The Whelk of Reason

  • Expired Member
  • 919 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:19 PM

np :) hey OTC, would you say thats about how it happened? little bit of water in the bottom when you get done pc'ing the qts and when you shook them... it basically disappeared?
fahtster


Yep, that's about the size of it.
I did one quart jar and one pint, there was hardly any moisture on the bottom of the jars (just enough to make a drip or two) and it disappeared when the warm grain was well shaken.
There were also a couple of CCs from the LC that I innoculated them with. It coated the grains and didn't even reach the bottom of the jar. :)

#9 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:45 PM

ive been going ahead and putting my PC under the water ...right after its done cooking.
you just run cold water over it and the pressure drops in about 5 - 10 secs


very bad idea, good way to fuck you & your pc up good.
being in a hurry is not wise.
save that for the trip to the ER.

#10 Bobcat

Bobcat

    Selah!

  • Expired Member
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:45 PM

very bad idea, good way to fuck you & your pc up good.
being in a hurry is not wise.
save that for the trip to the ER.


Used to do that with mine. Thought it was the cat's ass. Now it takes many many tries before mine will hold a seal (couple times it has been a multi-day affair). And I'm too broke to buy a new (big) one ATM. 'Under the faucet quick cooling' is the only variable. And in hindsight it makes sense. Super hot 2 cool can only = warping. Guess all in all I may have been lucky.

#11 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,713 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:15 PM

what kind do you have bob? is it a rubber sealing one? If so, i've found that i need to stretch that gasket just by pulling on it and holding it stretched out for a few seconds. :)

faht

#12 Guest_DaGoon_*

Guest_DaGoon_*
  • Guest

Posted 27 February 2007 - 09:37 PM

hmm yes..
sorry, i shouldn't have advocated it..
seems mine is made out of warp-resistance aluminum..
which is probably the only thing
thats kept it from warping horribly
i wasnt really in a hurry
i just thought it wasn't a problem
ill have to stop

one had a strange purple mold (showed up before myc so i know it wasnt spores)
and one i lost to penicillium

I think what happens is people blame dirty prints
on grains (inadvertantly)
and not shaking and dispersing the water properly so water builds up

How long have you had yours for bobcat?

#13 joystik

joystik

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 505 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 12:39 AM

I have to say this. This is just my case. I always soak Popcorn for 24 hours and then boil it for about 15 to 20 mins. Then I PC. I have never lost a popcorn jar to bacteria yet. Just never let those kernels pop open before PCing.


joy.

#14 Bobcat

Bobcat

    Selah!

  • Expired Member
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 01:12 PM

Mine is a big old Mirro. I'm thinking the box said either 22 or 24 qt. Don't remember. Has the clacker with three holes (5,10,15 psi) and the rubber replaceable gasket. I'll try stretching it out... that just might work, thanks!

I've had it for a few years now, did the quick cooling for a year. And after a while it just went down hill. I replaced the gasket and it worked like a charm once and only once. Maybe I was just lucky that time. Now I am finding that I have to bring up the heat at a real specific speed, and usually have to do it 2 or 3 times for the seal to take. Sux.

I get steam coming out of the handles and water drips under the seal/lip unto the stove. Sometimes the steam comes from the seal too, but not as much as the handles.

#15 Abortfungi

Abortfungi

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 01:40 PM

I have allways used popcorn. I soak it 24h. Boil for 30 mins with coffee+soaking water. Then lay em over a towel and dry the excess water off. Then just PC for about 45mins in 15psi.

Zero contaminations.
2,5dl jars colonizes usually approx 9 to 16 days(cubensis).

#16 Abortfungi

Abortfungi

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 01:44 PM

Mine is a big old Mirro. I'm thinking the box said either 22 or 24 qt. Don't remember. Has the clacker with three holes (5,10,15 psi) and the rubber replaceable gasket. I'll try stretching it out... that just might work, thanks!

I've had it for a few years now, did the quick cooling for a year. And after a while it just went down hill. I replaced the gasket and it worked like a charm once and only once. Maybe I was just lucky that time. Now I am finding that I have to bring up the heat at a real specific speed, and usually have to do it 2 or 3 times for the seal to take. Sux.

I get steam coming out of the handles and water drips under the seal/lip unto the stove. Sometimes the steam comes from the seal too, but not as much as the handles.


Actually I had that same problem.
I use vaseline to seal the leaks. Just wipe the whole rubber gasket with vaseline just before use and you're good to go. Some say vegetable oil is good, but I have never tried it.

#17 fahtster

fahtster

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 1,713 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2007 - 01:52 PM

I think that the stretching will fix your problem, bob. I had the same damn problem... I went as far as using tools to bend the aluminum flaps so that the lid would squeeze the gasket tighter. But then i just figured out that the gasket gets cool and shrinks, pulling away from the rim of the lid making for a poor ass seal.. just stretch the hell out of it, yo. ;) please report back if that works... we'll make a thread out it. :)

I, also think that people used bad inoculant and blamed it on the grains they used. a nice solid lid is important for sure too. increasing the times in the PC may also help rid grain jars of bacteria and mold.

fahtster




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!