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Confused about strains


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#1 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 01:58 PM

I have a print and it is labeled "psilocybe cubensis". Now is that a generic name or is that the strain? I thought all cubes were "psilocybe cubensis", and then there were different strains there-of. I should be smarter than this. lol.

#2 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:09 PM

I just read the link http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=20324 titled "How Do I Make My Own Strain" and now I'm really lost. lol.

#3 the_chosen_one

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:12 PM

http://mycotopia.net...isplay.php?f=74

nah, yer fine. a cubie is a cubie. a strain is much like a race. we are all humans but there are different races. the breeding is a bit more complicated tho.

here's a link to the strain base.

ALSO clicking > strain < will help ;)

#4 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:02 PM

But now I pose this question? If one were to breed what I have and make prints what would I call them if I were to trade or donate?

#5 weed4all

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:21 PM

you cant breed shrooms. most of the different types are just named from where there found. you should look up cloning

#6 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:35 PM

Thanks weed I agree with what your saying about breeding and cloning, i see already i will have to watch my terminology in here. So i did look it up and it still mentions breeding, not to be an ice hole, just thought id say.
http://mycotopia.net...lossary&term=81

#7 the_chosen_one

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 04:28 PM

you cant breed shrooms. most of the different types are just named from where there found. you should look up cloning


only partially true in regards to where they are found. there are several bred strains. RR, Workman and myself have all done lab created strains. and several others who are not members here.

take a look at the history of Redboy, PE6, Penis Envy uncut and Falbino. these are just a few. most of my PF Albino threads end with some sort of breeding attempt or results.

here's a link to one running currently.....

http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=18390

#8 reverend trips

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 04:37 PM

what would I call them if I were to trade or donate?


A mystery psilocybe cubensis strain.

I'd take two with a cool name like that!

#9 SWIM

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:08 PM

what would I call them if I were to trade or donate?


Call it a strain with particular characteristics. I'd as soon trade for "solid meaty stems" as "Transkei" for example.

#10 Nabby

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:21 PM

If it's a cubensis, it's worth growing, even if you are unsure which one it is. If you want to trade it, just call it a random. Include pics from your own grow with it, even. Some are easily identified by looking at it, like penis envy. If it's a generic cubie, I'd wager it's going to be a common one like PFC or B+ or Golden Teacher. But you never know, and in the end, who cares? A cubie by any other name would trip as sweet!

#11 the_chosen_one

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 07:49 PM

If it's a cubensis, it's worth growing, even if you are unsure which one it is. If you want to trade it, just call it a random. Include pics from your own grow with it, even. Some are easily identified by looking at it, like penis envy. If it's a generic cubie, I'd wager it's going to be a common one like PFC or B+ or Golden Teacher. But you never know, and in the end, who cares? A cubie by any other name would trip as sweet!


well said :bow:

#12 TheJackal

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 08:05 PM

TCO, please further clarify this (http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=21107):

FOAF thought it was a problem also, and then read some posts at the shroomstery that FOAF can't locate right now and that dispelled the myth and went something like (please correct FOAF, if the crack is talking):

1. Even within one strain, there are multiple substrains, so that when multispore is used, one can have thousands of different substrains in a given flush. Lots of smart folks spend a lot of time isolating the best substrains from a given strain for better genetics and resulting flushes.

2. Different strains are not likely to mate, and all strains are from the same species.

3. Mixing two multispore strains from the same species just results in multiple different sub-strains of the two respective strains co-habitating on the same substrate and fruiting as is usual with just one strain.


Think that 2 should read: "2. Different strains are not likely to mate, even when all strains are from the same species."

#13 the_chosen_one

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 08:42 PM

I just read the link http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=20324 titled "How Do I Make My Own Strain" and now I'm really lost. lol.


:o that's partly my fault. i'm being very narrow about what type of "breeding" we are talking about.
basically there are 4 kinds of breeding:

1) multispore - growing mushrooms by use of a group of spores. typically breeding this way is done by carefully selecting fruiting bodies from which to take spore prints. particular traits can be copied or manipulated to an extent, but this can take many years.

2) cloning - duplicating a fruiting body by selecting a tissue sample and actually letting it copy itself in a supplied environment. this is a faster way to get the desired results, but after repetition it can lead to genetic instability or senescence (spelling? :p). where the mycelium is unable to fruit and eventually dies.

3) isolation - we call it isolating a "substrain" but more to come on that. cloning is one way to achieve this but it is typically done by the use of agar. when multispore is used there will be many substrains sort of mixed together. this is exactly what it sounds like....isolating one or a small group.

note, using 1, 2 and 3 in conjunction is usually best to insure a good fruiting strain that will last a long time with proper care.

4) strain crossing / hybridization / lab creation - this is the one i was focused on in that thread and this is where it gets really confusing to a newer cultivator.
please keep in mind that we are a more liberal portion of the mycological culture so our terms are a bit loose. it can be a bit strange watching us talk and then picking up a book. books are typically generated by the scientific and professional side of our culture and terms are a bit more strict.
i'll use the south american or SA "strain" as an example. technically the proper way to say it is P. Cubensis var South American. var meaning variety or as i said before "race". a colony of SA will actually contain many strains of that var. the strains are only slightly different from each other genetically.
we call them substrains (also used loosely) just a we use the word strain to describe a variety.
our way works for our purposes and most of us know what each other means when using the terms loosely.
anyways...back to breeding. vars, or strains hehe can actually be crossed genetically. this is true of any cubie because it's a cubie. it's like a german sheppard breeding with a poodle. although it gets a little more complicated for mushies because of the fear of inbreeding. mushrooms have an evolved system which prevents this. strains. or as we call them substrains. these however are almost impossible to manipulate and most breeding of this method is a roll of the dice. but once again with the use of 1, 2 and 3 the traits can often be cornered achieving a new var or "strain".

my god i just typed all that!!! and here i was trying to keep it simple. you just seem so eager, using the glossary and what not. i hope my ramblings help.
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#14 the_chosen_one

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:05 PM

TCO, please further clarify this (http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=21107):
Think that 2 should read: "2. Different strains are not likely to mate, even when all strains are from the same species."


on the contrary. i think there is a lot more mating going on than we believe. it's just a matter of which matings will fruit and then which group of dikaryon colonies will grow faster than the rest.
we tend to think of this as a battle when in reality it's more like a race. there is no combat between substrains really. the just grow til they run out of food.
think of it this way..a PF cake or any glob of myc will consist of many dikaryotic colonies (at least before it's isolated). each will produce it's own strain or "substrain".
some of these colonies can be crosses but there are factors that keep it less evident. a di colony can live inside a cake and never reach air because it is surounded by other colonies that have reached the food faster. many will actually parallel each other and inter twine sort of sharing the food. this is why we have "substrains" all fruiting together but not every colony in the cake is fruiting. some are lost in the glob and some are just incapable of doing it.
the biggest problem is being able to recognize a cross because most cubies look the same. this is where crossing with the albino or something distinct like the PE is easier and appears to accomplish more.

#15 Freaky

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:38 PM

Well said TCO!

I watch with wonder at the genetic manipulation TCO and Workman and Roger have done with Psilocybes. I keep wondering when one of them is going to try crossing a woodlover with a dung lover.

#16 TheJackal

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:02 PM

Thanks for that great explanation, TCO :bow: :bow: :bow: !

#17 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:25 PM

Thanks for all the input I will just have to keep a grow log on here when i start so you guys can help identify var. or it just may be forever called as preist put it the mystery psilocybe cubensis im sure it will turn out to be b+ or pfc would just make sence. And great thanks to TCO appriciate the help. Now I have to invest i digital camera among the many other things where does the list end LOL (my want list) Thanks

#18 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:27 PM

:-)

#19 funmkr77

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 11:29 PM

did a little more research from supplier and found out what i have is Matias Romero. Seek and u shall find. thanks guys i still enjoyed the read.

#20 Nabby

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 12:14 AM

Wow, there's a strain I don't hear mentioned too often. Good stuff. Ralphster has a nice description and a pic if you check out his store. Also, TCO posted this about it a year ago from last month, so see if he has any tips?

http://mycotopia.net...read.php?t=8838




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