LSA the Easy Way All trip No Bodyload....
Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:20 PM
LSA can be consumed sub-lingually right? Is it possible to put the extract onto a piece of blotter paper?
Posted 31 May 2007 - 05:17 AM
Posted 31 May 2007 - 05:57 PM
Posted 31 May 2007 - 08:52 PM
I have read that alcohol tinctures are more visual than a dried tar extract, would there be anyway to re-dissolve the dry extract in some liquid other than everclear to get the same effect?
ya i prefer it in the liquid form also..
i have never tried the dry..
If you order riveas from iamshaman they give you more then you order...
Order 500 you get like 2000 pretty good deal, they prolly do it by weight and their calculation is weigh off.
Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:43 PM
has anyone else tried this?
Posted 05 June 2007 - 10:33 AM
I started with about 81 grams of heavenly blue. I did my butane blast taking me three full tubes. I should have made it four and not packed them as tight. I felt a little bit of the bad effects but nothing to bad.
Then i stilled out some 151 and got some high proof alc. I add a small amout of tatartic acid to it. Added the blasted seeds and mixed for at least 10 min. I let it sit for 2 hours in fridge.
Poured it off and tried to evaportae a little of the alc. I let it sit in a dark area for a couple of hours and it evaporated a little. I read that you could put a fan on it so i tried it. That was my second mistake. I checked it in 15 min and the white stuff started to turn dark. I know i killed some of the LSA.
Me and my friend took some. I was expecting more from it. I dont think i got all the LSA out of the mash and i think the fan killed some. Luckly i was plannig to try a second extract out of the seeds so i added more tatartic acid and alc and i have let it sit for 3 days. I am going to pour it off today and see what i get. I dont know when i will be able to try it though.
So I think this method works good. I think i will pack the seeds not as tight and find a diffrent way to evaporate next time. I think a vacum chamber might work well for that. No oxegen and fast evaporation. I might try the peppermint oil next time too.
Posted 11 June 2007 - 02:54 AM
you could distill it...pretty dangerous..
Just order it online the 200 proof enthanol its well worth the wait and 15$....
Isopropanol forms an azetrope with water and would be distilled over as well. You could use a molecular sieve on 99% iso to dry it but who has one. I'm not real sure on this one but dried epson salts could dry out the water. Just cook the epsom salts in the oven at 200+C for a couple hours, then chuck em in the 99% iso for a few hours then filter all the epsons out.
Awesome idea to use butane, I'll definately try it.:eusa_clap
LSA straight from the seeds is definatley not soluble in butane. If the LSA has been treated with a base it will be stripped of its salts and will be very soluble in butane, but not in alcohol. It could then be treated with an acid and it would attach to a salt again. This method is very useful for purifying many alkaloids.
Has anyone tried an acid/base extraction with LSA?
Posted 11 June 2007 - 05:17 PM
surely someone out there must have experimented with this?
Posted 12 June 2007 - 10:41 AM
Use the honey oil extraction tech to get the nasties out of the seeds...
This is 5x times filtered butane:
Hit the seeds with 2 10-15second blasts...
nasties fall out the bottom of the filter pipe goodies still in tube
Let mush dry, it does not take long....
Soak for a hour or 2 in 190 proof or better grain alcohol
Evaporate with very light heat like 100degrees no more and a fan..(did not
degrade my product enough to make a difference, it even sat in a well lit
room most of the day so don't worry too much about light and heat its not
that serious just take it into consideration just as long as it ain't extreme
heat or light)
Scrape dry extract
Reconstitute it in a few drops of peppermint oil and how ever much grain
alcohol is needed, make it as potent as you want..
Should taste like alkaloids stronger then the mint or alcohol..
You know this taste from eating riveas str8 up or HBRW..
morning glories are not as potent therefore harder to acquire
this certain taste..please try sometime
I couldn't imagine how potent you can make this with FRESH HBRW and RIVEA = O
so the final product would be peppermint oil + a little alcohol + the mushed seeds?
or are the seeds strained?
how do you injest? do you use a syringe to measure the ml? would the mush get stuck in the needle?
just drop the liquid on your tongue?
Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:10 AM
I'd probably combine the dose with a shot of something, in case it tastes bad
Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:53 AM
Posted 23 July 2007 - 05:18 AM
Since the mush has to dry out before using, and is ingested not smoked, can normal butane be used? I would imagine it would be completely evaporated. Ive ingested quite a few nasties and have been fine, but was just wondering how bad this would be?
I know people who smoke oil from shitty butane, as well as huff it regularly and are still fine, but better safe than sorry.
Posted 23 July 2007 - 10:21 AM
Shromadon - You'll be fine. Refined butane still contains a bit of nasties in it.
Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:22 PM
Shromadon: Swim has experimented with different butane on his oil. The unrefined stuff produces harsh smoke however, when the butane is about half evaporated there will be some fluffy lookin' floaties in there. Swim scoopes 'em out with a spoon and the harshness is gone.
Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:58 AM
Firegod420 has done some excellent work here with this thread. He is onto something with the use of peppermint oil & ethanol added to the defatted seed extract.
Don't underestimate the importance of peppermint oil & ethanol & water in this recipe if you are looking to increase the conversion of LSA to LSH (lysergic acid hydroxethylamide) in dreams. Another alternative would be wine high in acetaldehyde such as sherry wine in place of peppermint oil/ethanol/water.
From fastandbulbous (bluelight forum):
An alternative to use instead of wine would be a few drops of peppermint oil--it contains acetaldehyde & acetic acid, however you will still need to add some ethanol containing liquor such as everclear--hypothetically the 3 components needed for turning LSA into (up to 60%) lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide are: water, ethanol, & acetaldehyde in the proper ratios, with ph=4.0 or so being optimal. Wine contains tartaric acid and is thus allready at a ph of 4.0.
Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources)
Meaning you don't have to reflux them together for hours to get the product. You just mix them together at normal physilogical temp, pH etc & voila, you get an equilibruim set up between it and lysergamide/acetaldehyde. If you can preceiptate it from soln while leaving the lysergamide in soln it could be almost a quantitative production.
chemist peter webster:
D-Lysergic acid N-(Î±-hydroxyethyl)amide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The hydroxyethylamide in the seeds long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods.
Some researchers believe that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide.
Here is a very good paper on LSA that was presented at the LSD symposium in 2006 for Dr. Hofmann's 100th birthday party:
(download issue #2):
Invisible College PDF Magazine
"Secret Recipes--Hofmann Symposium--Peter Webster--Ground Breaking Work on The Kykeon Mystery--Edited by Peter Webster & RevMEO."
Notice in the paper how iso-ergine appears to have the same conformation as LSD and may in actuality be potent instead of how it was thought to not be in earlier days.
See "Full Tryptamine adducts paper" to see more on how water + ethanol + acetaldehyde may react with LSA to form the more potent lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide after a period of time (0 to 24 hours--see table) especially at ph 4.0 or so. It is possible for this occur (60%) in as little as 1 hour if proper ratio of acetaldehyde to ethanol to water is used--refer to the table in the paper.
I brought this up a while back as spearmint/peppermint oil was an orginal ingredient of the kykeon CWE ergot preparation at Eleusis. Was it used for more than just the control of nausea?
Just add a few drops (5 or less) to your everclear solution of LSA extract (after it has been properly defatted either with reagent grade petroleum ether or a butane blast) and let it spin for a few hours in the fridge on a portable magnetic stirrer or some other method, check to see if you have a ph of around 4.0 as this helps.
Or the (5 or so drops) peppermint oil could just be allowed to soak with your jar of defatted seed mush/1 to 4 oz everclear solution for several days with occasional shaking...upon which the seed mush is then filtered out of the everclear after the 3rd to 4rth day or so and is then ready for theoretical consumption (small qty at first to test).
See the "morning glory FAQ" at erowid for how to defat seeds using reagent grade petroleum ether if you decide to go that route. The faq then explains how your seed mush (after it is thoroughly dry of any pe remains) is added to a few oz of everclear in a jar to soak (extracts the lsa's from the seed mush). This does indeed decrease or eliminate nausea (I can attest to that). What I would like to do in dreams is add peppermint oil as he states and experiment with everclear/peppermint oil/water ratios to see how this effects the outcome. This sounds better than adding sherry wine to everclear anyday. Peppermint oil being an alternative to acetaldehyde over sherry wine.
This could result in a strong trip so go slow trying only tiny amount at first.
This full 5 page Tryptamine Adducts Paper is attached, and I orginally found this paper after many months of research to see if it was indeed possible in theory to convert a sizeable amount of lysergic acid amide to lysergic acid hydroxethylamide.
I think this extraction tek is the best for making a potent tincture that
works everytime. Make it potent enough so all you need is 5 drops!!
NO BODYLOAD AT ALL .. I have confirmed this multiple times...
First off you always want to start with a larger quantity of seeds then
would think is enough...(due to potentcy variability)
- Grind seeds in a coffee grinder
- Stuff seeds in a stainless, copper or glass tube with one end only small
enough to stick a butane nozzle in and on the other end a 1-3inch opening
- Squirt the butane threw nozzle end all the crap will fall out thru the filter
at the bottom. Do this twice for like 3-8 seconds. Make sure not too much
pressure builds or you will literally blast your seeds right out the tube.
- Remove seeds from tube and allow to dry for 1 hr
- put seeds in a SMALL jar smaller the better easier to work with, with
95% or better alcohol either Grain or IPA/Rubbing.
- Add a few drops of peppermint oil this is high in acetalhyde and has
acetic acid in it to make the LSA/LSH more stable.
- Shake this around hard for 10min then allow to sit in fridge for another
hour and 45min.(2 hour extraction)
- carefully pour off top into a filter make sure all seed gook stays in jar.
- Evaporate this down to desired amount(patience is way better, you can
use a fan, but if you use heat don't go higher then 100 degrees F.) or
evaporate to dry extract(it will be slightly oily from the peppermint oil) and
scrape to reconstitute with 60% or better alcohol.(the Tincture has a way
better effect then dry extract)
_ Have a nice trip...OR If you want something more pure don't use
peppermint oil in first stages. You will also be loosing LSA doing these
washes but whatever you want it more pure.
- after you have evaporated it down reconstitute it only in really COLD
99% rubbing alcohol..do this 3 times leaving the GOOK at he bottom each
time.. There is still a small amount of LSA in the gook but discard it or eat
- after final scrape and its completely dry reconstitute it in only grain
alcohol and add peppermint oil
- Potency at could be very very high at this point and i suggest you don't
eat this unless weighed on a really good scale before you reconstitute it..
Persona (from entheogen.com forum):
According to the paper of tryptophan-acetaldehyde adducts (attached), acetaldehyde and tryptophan form the "N-(a-hydroxyethyl)amine" at the nitrogen of the indole ring. Additionally, it is well known that amines and aldehydes form a similar product. The paper claims that ethanol adds to these to form the corresponding (a-ethoxyethyl)amine/amide. It can thus be applied, in theory, to d-lysergamide and acetaldehyde. I believe that the N-(a-hydroxyethyl)amide formed would also form the N-(a-ethoxyethyl) amide (R-NH-CH(O-CH2CH3)CH3). In addition to this, the paper claims that at a ph of 4, ethanol reacts with this a-hydroxyethylamine to form a stable acetal... BUT, this reaction occurs at the nitrogen of the indole ring, meaning that we could be seeing a mixed bag of products, when we apply this our lysergamide. Wine therefore has an optimal ph, and reaction conditions for these reactions. I think a picture would be most appropriate here...
OK, to reiterate... compound 1 is in equilibria with the pair of compounds 2. In wine, this would theoretically be favored toward the right, at ambient temperature. The two products would also then equilibrate with 3, as acetaldehyde adds to both the amide and indole nitrogen. According to the paper, ethanol reacts with the indole N-(a-hydroxyethyl)amine to form the "acetal" (don't know if a more appropriate name exists), which is STABLE. This occurs at the N-(a-hydroxyethyl)amide as well. This creates 4. Both stable compounds, apparently. These both can further react to 5, a fully reacted acetaldehyde adduct... If this compound, or at least one set of these forms, are stable, then the equilibrium would be pushed toward these compounds, meaning that most of the lysergamides (and others) present would form these adducts, both at the amide and the indole nitrogens.
So we could thus hypothesize, within reason (as this is theory and paper after all), that compound 5, is one the primary (psychoactive) constituents of C. paspali in wine.
The question that remains is, does this reach the brain? Unfortunately, I am rather unsure about metabolic transformation... but it is possible that the compound passes the blood-brain barrier and is in vivo transformed to the N-ethylamide, which is IIRC, an active compound, comparable to our precious LSD... Also, if any of these compounds happen to be MAOI, and who knows what role the ethanol itself plays in all of this, then we may have a reasonable hypothesis to test…
Here is a study, the only one period on lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide...it shows the properties of LAH compared to ergometrine & others: (and yes it does appear to have vasoconstrictive properties by reading the study).
The following videos & information are possibly dangerous with resulting loss of limbs, death, etc.
Some Pharmacological Actions of D-lysergic acid methyl carbinolamide.
Nature 1961 189:313-314
D-lysergic acid methyl carbinaolamide, C(18)H(21)N(3)O(2), is a new alkaloid produced by a strain of Claviceps Paspali Stewens and Hall. Arcamone, Bonino, Chain, Ferretti, Pennella, Tonolo and Vero (1) isolated the new alkaloid from submerged cultures and determined its structure. I have now investigated some of the pharmacological actions of the new alklaoids.
D-Lysergic acid methyl carbinolamide was kindly supplied to me by Prof. E. B. Chain. Freshly prepared aqueous solutions of the maleate salt (C(18)H(21)N(3)O(2).C(4)H(4)O(4)) were used in my experiments.
The intravenous LD50 of the new alkaloid was approximately 150mgm./kgm for mice and 0.75 mgm./kgm. for rabits/ Before death, the mice showed periodic convulsions of a clonic type, erection of the hairs and excitability. At doses of 50-100mgm./kgm. it produced only this peculiar symptomatology: the mice stood upright and pressed on each other's noses and chattered their teeth. In rabbits, and injection into the ear vein in doses of 0.1-1mgm./kgm. produced dilatation of the pupil, excitability or convulsions of a clinic type. The ears became pale and cold with intense vaso-constirction. The toxicity of the alkaloid to rabbits seemed to depend on its power of raising the body-temperature in this species. In rabbits the similarity between the effects of the new alkaloid and ergometrine were particularly striking, but ergometrine was less toxic to rabbits (the approximate intravenous LD50 of ergometrine was 3.5mgm./kgm.).
D-lysergic acid methyl carbinolamide induced, in low concentrations (minimum active concentration 0.1-1µgm./ml.), a contracture in the isolated uterus of the virgen guinea pig. There was a satisfactory dose/response relationship. Tgus contracture was very similar to that produced by ergmetrine maleate, which, however, was 1-2 times more potent.
On the rabbit uterus in situ both alkaloids produced a prompt contraction and increased rhythmic activity of the uterus. For ergometrine the minimum active dose by intravenous route was 0.1-0.3 mgm./kgm. and for the new alkaloid 0.2-0.5mgm./kgm. The actions of both alkaloids lasted some minutes, and owing to the favourable circumstance that the interference between the effects of the two alkaloids was negligible, it was possible to test them on the same preparation. Ergometrine was 1-2 times more potent than the new alkaloid.
On the isolated seminal vesicles of the guinea puig, the new alkaloid was approximately 200 times less potent than ergotamine tartrate as an adrenergic blocking drug.
Rabbits anaethetized with urethane supported doses of D-lysertgic acid methyl carbinolamide which would have killed unanaesthetized animals. Rapid intravenous injections of small doses (0.1-0.2mgm./kgm.) of the new alkaloid caused an evanescent decrease or a small increase of blood pressure; with higher doses (0.3/0.5mgm./kgm. and more) the blood pressure increased moderately without showing any dose/response relationship. Ergometrine maleate seemed to be less active on bloodpressure, and there was no significant change of blood pressure with 0.3-0.5 mgm./kgm.
The new alkaloid was without effect, when given in small doses, on the blood pressure of cats anaethetized with chloralose. Higher intravenous doses (0.1-0.3mgm./kgm.) caused a sustained hypotension of long duration and a moderate decrease of heart-rate. The respiration of rabbits and cats was depressed by small doses of the new alkaloid; cats seemed to be less resistant than rabbits. In cats, 0.01mgm./kgm. of the new alkaloid caused broncho-constriction and contractions of the nictitating membrane of long duration.
The new alkaloid have no action on isolated rabbit auricles at doses up to 100µgm./ml.
In summing up, the new naturally occuring alkaloid D-lysergic acid methyl carbinolamide has powerful ergometrine-like oxytocic action and weak ergotamine-like adrenergic blocking actions. It must be included, on the basis of pharmacological evidence, in the ergometrine group of ergot alkaloids. Ergometrine, however, is less toxic and more active than the new alkaloid. Some of my results suggest that it could have a lysergic acid diethylamide-like activity, but this hypothesis must be checked by experiments on humans.
Full details of this work will be published elsewhere.
But is shown so that you can examine the mystery of ergot compounds:
It could all be a bunch of fantasy anyways.
Ergot compounds should never be extracted straight with wine as wine contains alcohol and alcohol pulls out the bad peptide compounds (cause ergotism, etc.) along with the good compounds which are cold water soluble.
Did wine enhance the effects of a ?claviceps paspali extract?:
(Ergot Wine, parts 1 & 2)
YouTube - Ergot Wine Part 1
YouTube - Ergot Wine Part 2
Are the effects of lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) similar or different than ergometrine? All we have to go by is the study on rabbits/cats/guinea pigs above. Remember, there have been NO human studies done on this compound, however the investigator felt that it may have LSD like effects by his judgement of the animals behaviour.
Checkout what happens when investigators took high doses of ergometrine (another name for ergonovine) back in the 70's from "The Psychedelics Encyclopedia" page 94:
From the rare book "The Road to Eleusis" page 41 is Hofmann's experience with 2.0mg ergometrine (ergonovine):
In the January-June 1979 issue of the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, Jeremy Bigwood, Jonathan Ott, Catherine Thompson and Patricia Neely report on their attempt ot replicate Hofmann's finding in three experiments with ergonovine maleate, each time in one pastoral setting. They were following up Wasson and Ruck, who tried the same amount as Hofmann but "did not experience distinct entheogenic effects."
With Thompson acting as a guide, three of them took 3mg. of ergonovine maleate, which appeared as a slightly phosphorescent bluish solution in water. Fifteen minutes later they felt like lying down and looking at the sky; then there were "very mild visual alterations, characterized by perception of an 'alive' quality in inanimate objects." Most of this effect passed within an hour; walking along the beach, they experienced mild leg cramps. Bigwood saw eidetic imagery before going to bed, and the three "slept easily...awakening refreshed in the morning."
The three experimenters were "convinced that ergonovine was psychoactive, but only J.B. was persuaded the drug was entheogenic." They decided to try it again two weeks later in an increased dosage of 5 mg., but Neely took only 3.75mg. "Again, we experienced lassitude and leg cramps, more pronounced than in the earlier experiment." The psychic effects were more intense than previously, particularly eidetic imagery. "Now it was clear to all of us that ergonovine was entheogenic...The entheogenic effects, however, were very mild, while the somatic effects were quite strong. We had none of the euphoria characteristic of LSD and psilocybin experiences."
To determine if higher consciousness alteration was possible, they tried larger oral doses of ergonovine maleate a week later. This time, Neely took a dose of 7.5mg and the others took 10mg:
"One of us (J.O.) described "flashes in periphery, ringing in ears, inner restlessness" 40 minutes after ingestion, and later noted "mild hallucinosis, cramps in legs and felt the cramping in the legs as painful and debilitating. The psychic effects did not increase with the same magnitude as the somatic effects...For what seemed like hours, we lay on our backs atop a small pumphouse, watching fluffy cumulus clouds pass silently above us. The effects were still quite intense six hours after ingestion. One of us experienced abundant eidetic imagery, rapidly-changing, colorful geometric patterns, undulating, never still. We all had a slight hangover the following morning."
To me, lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) looks similar in structure to LAE-32:
1 April 1976
12:20 h: 2.0mg ergonovine hydrogenmaleinate, containing 1.5mg ergonovine base, ingested in a glass of water.
13:00 h: slight nausea, same effect as I have experienced always in my LSD or psilocybin experiments. Tired, need to lie down. With eyes closed colored figures.
13:30 h: the trees in the nearby forest seem to live, their branches moving in a threatening way.
14:30 h: strong desire to dream, unable to do systematic work, with eyes closed or open afflicted by mollusk-like forms and feelings.
16:00 h: motives and colors have become clearer, but bearing still some hidden dangers.
17:00 h: after a short sleep I awoke by a kind of inner explosion of all the senses.
18:00 h: an unexpected visit forced me to become active, but during the whole evening I lived more in an inner than in the outer world.
22:00 h: all effects worn off, normal feeling.
This was an experiment performed without attention to 'set & setting' but it proves that ergonovine possesses a psychotropic, mood-changing, slightly hallucinogenic activity when taken in the same amount as is an effective dose of lysergic acid amide (LSA), the main constituent of ololiuhuqi. It's potency is about 1/20th the potency of LSD and about 5 times that of psilocybin.
Erowid Online Books : "TIHKAL" - #26 LSD-25
Then we have people who take the whole extract of MG (all of the six or more alkaloids) in cold water extract or other chemical extract and have great euphoric experiences...here is one for example from a chemist:
LAE-32, N-ethyllysergamide. Different people have observed and reported different effects, with different routes of administration. Subcutaneous administrations of from 500 to 750 micrograms have been said to produce a state of apathy and sedation. Clinical studies with dosages of 500 micrograms i.m. were felt to be less effective than the control use of 100 micrograms of LSD. And yet, oral doses of twice this amount, 1.6 milligrams, have been said to produce a short-lived LSD-like effect with none of these negatives.
Peter Webster (Kykeon paper linked to earlier):
Concerning the psychoactivity of ergine/isoergine mixtures, I have long had great confidence that extracts of morning glory seed, and by analogy a partial hydrolysis preparation made from ergot, could be quite powerfully psychoactive.
In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I went to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds. To begin, I extracted several kilos of seeds using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the alternating presence of aqueous solutions of ammonia and tartaric acid.
After a couple days' work, I obtained a nearly colourless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence typical of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known-by then I had already taken large doses of LSD several times as well as a few other notorious psychedelic agents.
It has ever since been a mystery to me why ergine (LSA) should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation--perhaps not entirely satisfactory, I admit is that my extraction procedure (and also the shaman's water extract preparation) allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three ergine variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single component of the mixture alone.
Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:11 AM
Q. Does defatting eliminate vascoconstriction?
Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:23 AM
Here is a pic from "LSD, my problem child" by Dr. Hofmann where we can get a good look at the chemical structure of lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (middle right) compared with ergometrine. Ergometrine is also present in the seeds and another name for lysergic acid propanolamide, upper right.
And yet another look from "The Road to Eleusis" by Hofmann & Ruck, great book: