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Eatyu's How To (dub tubs and single tubs)


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#1 eatyualive

eatyualive

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:05 AM




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Eat Yu's How To
Single Tubs and Double Tubs
Update: 2009



First of all I want to say that this tek is derived from many other teks. It is just my little twist on it. This is simply put, Millet's Tek with Eat's adaptivity to it. It doesn't mean it is better or worse, it is just a little different with ratios and utensils! Millet suggested I try these dub tubs and I have found they work wonders.


Mushmush.nl invented the DubTub


Recipe:
for four 64 quart clear bins or double tubs.
Ratios Per Turkey Tins( 4 turkey tins total):
12 cups screened worm castings
12 cups vermiculite.
1 quart distilled water
1 quarter pressure cooker bag full of straw per 4 turkey tins
so your total for 4 turkey tins would be
48 cups dung, 48 cups verm and 1 gallon distilled water.
we will mix these ratios later but for now we will just tell you these ratios.


Alternate Recipe(more recent)
any ratio of 1:1:1:1 so 1:1 of coir/strawnet would be 50:50 ratio or 50 percent ratio.
i use turkey tins as a unit of measurement. throw everything out the window and do it by eye.
i have a big mixing box. when i fill it to the line it fills 4 turkey tins volume of substrate. this then fills two bins. 2 turkey tins in each bin.
i throw in all the ingredients at 1:1:1:1 ratio or equal parts ratio.
i mix it all up nice and fluffy. then throw in 1 whole cup hippie3's supercake formula. just the dry ingredients as i use tap water. this increases the yield 3 times.

i also increase the portions of bee pollen and kelp meal in the supercake mix to about 1 more equal portion for each in your supercake ratios as they are 1:1:1:1. so it would be 2:2:1:1, the 2's being bee pollen and kelp meal.
went from 4z per tub to 12z per tub with a 3" sub depth.
also adding 4-5 quarts of spawn per bin.
so 2 turkey tins of substrate of coir/verm/strawnet/hpoo with 1/2 cup supercake formula in it.
then follow same procedures as listed in this topic.

Suplies:

2 long sterilized spoons ( long enough to break up mycelia in quart spawn jars)

4 turkey tins

vermiculite

dry worm castings

plastic gloves (powder-free)

painting mask

ozium or disinfectant spray

rubbing alcohol

finely chopped straw (preferably chopped with a food processor or wood chipper)

medium grade aluminum foil

terrarium lid for filtering (available at any pet store)

5 quarts of colonized spawn

extra distilled water

2 large glass jars made for pc'ing, gallon size preferably
(these are available at any asian market that sells kim chee- which is a korean cabbage dish)
the lids also come autoclaveable!

These large jars will be used to make the 50/50 casing soil


Procedures
All pre steps done the night before

Pre Step-Screen your worm dung with a terrarium lid for a reptile aquarium

Pre Step-2 Finely chop your straw until it is almost 1" to powder size. the smaller the better.

Pre Step 3- soak straw 24 hours, strain then pc for two hours.

Explanation: the finer the straw is the better it mixes into the spawn run.
also, the spawn run is much shorter when the mix is more even.
now presoak this straw for 24 hours.

Then pc the straw for 2 hours at 15 psi.
Remember though, you don't have to do this straw step until the night before you decide you want to do the spawning.
Also, it isn't advisable to keep straw sitting too long even after it has been pc'd b/c straw is very quick to contam.
I would suggest keeping it in the pc until you decide it is time to spawn or it would be better to just pc it the night
before you spawn.

I often tend to do this in a few steps which make it a little easier.
I cook everything the night before and then spawn everything the next day.
Just make sure you have a clean working area. Everything can be done open air.

It is advisable to run air filters and spray disinfectant spray in the air before you spawn.

It is even a good idea to drop the house temp about 5 degrees a few hours before you
do the spawning. Then turn the ac off while you do this spawning.

Below is a picture of the texture the straw should be.
this has been chopped with a food processor from walmart.
After that picture is a picture of the straw after it is soaked and pced.

straw.jpg

Here is another picture of the straw pre soaking. notice in the picture that the larger
pieces of straw are right next to the finer pieces. this is for comparison. you do not want anything
over 1" pieces. in fact powder straw is even better! this will be pointed out when we get to the spawning section!

1.jpg

1. Add 16 cups screened dung and 16 cups vermiculite to each turkey tin.
We do 4 turkey tins with this same ratio in each.

2. You also need your gallon of distilled water for this step.

turkeytin.jpg

As you can see the vermiculite and dung are piled in the turkey tin.
I have adapted this technique now to mixing everything in one big mixing box.
this is then transferred to the turkey tins. this will be shown later.

3.jpg

straw amount after being soaked and pc'd!
This is about the amount of straw you need.
I would say this is about 1/2 a turkey tin full once it is laid out.
There is no ratio- just fill a large bowl and soak the straw.
then when you pc it try and get about the amount in the picture below.
The key to this tek is speedy colonization. Straw contams hella fast so you
want the straw to colonize asap. The other principle of this is that
you want the dung to soak up the extra water from the straw.
If you have overly wet straw you will have microbes growing up the wazoo!
I purposely make my mix in the dung/straw a little dry
to soak up this extra straw water.

Now take note that if you think this ratio seems a little too dry,
wait till it is pastuerized.
It is definitely the right ratio!

4.jpg

3. Add 1 quart distilled water
or 1/4th gallon per turkey tin (I now use tap water). you want to mix this using gloves
and make it light and fluffy and very soft. it will be pea size particals.
just like your pf mix! but just add a little at a time. y
ou may add a little more water than a quart but a quart works perfectly!

4. Ok now one of the keys to this entire tek is this mix.
You have to make sure this mix is so light and fluffy it wants to float out of your hands.
You can use the drop squeeze between the finger method to make the moisture correct.
But this mix actually speeds the colonization.

5.jpg

6.jpg

5....Look yummy all nice and shitty. the shittier it looks the better!
.......Had to add the shit humor!
This is what the mix should look like after you are done mixing by hand!
Nice and fluffy!

7.jpg

This just explains a little more about moisture content.
The flushes with this tek are incredible
and don't need more than the correct moisture content.
The condensation that is created in these chambers is so high
that it re nourishes the water back into the substrate for post 1st flushes.
If your using strawnet instead of dung the ratio is a bit different.
This ratio is a 1/3 ratio of each of 3 components: a) strawnet b)
coconut fiber c) fine, medium or coarse vermiculite
Take one brick of coco fiber and expand it with water in your mixing tub.
Meanwhile place 8 cups of strawnet pellets in a big pot and fill to the
top with water. It will expand 300% so make sure you fill the water to the top.
You bring the strawnet to a slight boil, then turn the heat to medium and leave
on the stove for 30 mins.

Strain out your strawnet and it will look like this. The water will be dark brown
when it comes out. Rinse the strawnet with cold tap water for a minute.

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Meanwhile, after your coir is expanded mix in about 50%/50% by volume
and eye of coir to vermiculite. one big mixing bowl full of vermiculite generally
does the trick. mix this up very nice and fluffy. you won't need to add any water.
the water from the expanded coir will work.

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After you have strained your strawnet for about 30 mins squeeze out the
excess water with gloves on. The water should be clear, this means its ready.
if your water is still a bit brown, rinse it out a bit more and allow it to strain more.
At this point you can take a break and smoke a bowl while you let it strain.
Foaf even mixes this in the area where the bong sits and smoke is in the air.
the pasteurization will kill all the nasties. Dump out your strawnet onto the
previous mix you have.

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Now you will mix up your strawnet with your coir and vermiculite.
Make sure to get out all clumps and make the strawnet stick to the
coc fiber. it will look like this when done. then stick it in turkey tins,
and wala, done.

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6. Now place the thick large tin foil over the tray so that it is air tight.
Make sure the type of foil you use is very wide
so that it fits directly over the turkey tin and keeps all the moisture in.

7. Now you have to pastuerize the dung/verm mix in the oven.
Preheat your oven to 185 degrees.

8. Place the trays in your oven and cook them for 2-4 hours at 185.
The temp may vary depending on your oven
but for the most part you want the inner temp of the mix to be about 160-170
for a steady two hours. I always cook them for 4 hours
but friends have had success with 2.

9. You can time this where you can start pc'ing the straw now.
It will take two hours so cooking time is perfect.

10. After the 4 turkey tins are done cooking leave them in the oven to cool overnight.
Here is a picture perfect example of the best shitty mix on earth.
Please feel free to copy this picture to your desktop and print it for framing on your
wall at home!

transfer.jpg

This is a snake cage lid for an aquarium. You can get these at any pet store.
This is used to screen the dung. Also look in the archives for this. From FM.

8.jpg

11. Now you must prep everything for spawning.
I usually run an air filter and spray disinfectant or ozium in the air.
you need a mask, gloves, pc'd spoon, 5 quarts of spawn and an extra tub for a mixing box.

12. Clean your work area and prep all materials.

13. I use rubbing alcohol to clean each bin inside by hand.
Then stuff the holes with fresh polyfil.
Make sure you clean the top of the lid also
because from here on out each lid stays on
until the spawn is transferred from the mixing box into each chamber.
Once the transfer is complete you don't open the bins again
until it is time to case.

The polyfil allows enough fresh air and co2 buildup for the perfect spawn run.
The spawn run has always been no more than 4 days with this tek.
If this doesn't happen you must have contamed something.
It will probably smell sour-
but that is a different lesson- lets concentrate on the tek for now!

14. Now I use 30 gallon black plastic trashbags and open the bags halfway.
I then place them on the bottom of the chamber
where the sides creep up the sides of the chamber.
once you place the plastic bag in the tub,
put the sterile lid on top

9.jpg

15. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION: Spawning must be done very quickly -this is open air.
And you must not breathe on it
so wear a mask. The straw is also very vulnerable to contamination
so we must use a lid on the mixing box.

16. Use another trash bag lined in a 64 quart bin for a mixing box.
Make sure you rub the bin and lid down with alcholol before use.
Then close the lid!

10.jpg

17. Here it is in a nutshell,
Basically dump all 4 turkey tins very quickly in the mixing box
and then add the straw.

18. Begin mixing the mix with your glove covered hands.
This mix will be light and fluffy and you want to
MAKE SURE THAT YOU BREAK UP ANY CLUMPS OF STRAW.
MAKE SURE ALL THE STRAW IS COMPLETELY COVERED BY THE DUNG.
ALSO MAKE SURE THE EXTRA WATER IS SOAKED UP BY THE DUNG

11.jpg

Here the straw and dung are dumped into the mixing box!
The mix is then mixed by hand consistenly
until it is almost the same texture as the previous mix.
You want this light and fluffy feel to it everytime.
Works like a charm!

19. It is easier to do this with two people, however you can do it alone.
just make sure everytime you are done mixing close the lid.
Keep as little air exposure as possible to prevent contamination.

12.jpg

20. Now you have to break up your 5 quart spawn jars
and dump them right on top of this mix!

21. Now after that break up any seed that is stuck together by hand.
Make sure each piece of wbs is broken up so that the spawn mixes better.
You then make a twisting and turning moition
and make sure you get the bottom of the mix.
Try and mix it to where the spawn looks evenly mixed throughout the entire dung/straw.

16.jpg

22. Look closely and you can see the little white dots in the mix.
This mix is almost done. It looks very even and consistent
.....Another view of the mix

15.jpg

.....Another.. I stress these pictures because they are very important!
This is the final product and the mix is done!

14.jpg

Finally Transfer handfuls of the mix
into each separate chamber (4 in all).
The sub level should lineup just about an inch under where the
polyfil holes are. The depth is about 4 inches.
Spread the mix evenly and smoothly around the bottom of the chamber
as if you were going to make a casing.
Let this incubate somewhere dark for 4-5 days.
Then when it is fluffy whie it is time to case.

Casing :
Casing is prepared excatly like the 50/50 dung/verm mix
except the dung is substituted with coir!
There is no lime or any type of buffering agent added. coir is neutral
Then it is pc'd for 1 hour. This casing is the exact moisture content of all the mixes in this tek.
Once you get this ratio down. It is a breeze because it is basically doing the same repetitiveness.
This is what the colonized sub bed will look like


Explanation:
The problem many people have is the part where the casing comes in.
Now tek stresses the fine ground straw because it mixes in perfectly
and doesn't leave any big pieces of uncolonized straw to get contamed.
So the substrate should look like this in a few days.
The best part of the clear bins is that they allow you to see when the bed is colonized
before you give it air exposure.

Incubation can be helped by placing a dark black plastic sheet
over the bins or a sleeping bag
....once the spawn has been colonized
case it and incubate it for about 5 more days.
sometimes the casing will colonize in 3 days but 5 is ideal!

After the casing has colonized, it will look like this on the outside of the chamber.
Notice all that condensation. It may look like too much but it isn't.
This plays a key role in the later flushes.
It actually has enough moisture for a few flushes without
rehydrating between flushes! Now once the casing is colonized
just place the other sterile bin on top and let it sit in the light for about a week
and you will begin to see pins! And walla, the final product.
Also take note that this chamber has only been opened two times.
Once to add casing. And once to pick the fruits.
The top chamber is then replaced after picking.
If the casing is torn up patch small spots
but don't add any extra water-you will fuck the environment!
Notice the sides of the chamber. This condensation is created.
It will build up and lower at the appropriate times of pinning,
fruiting, and harvesting, then repinning.

It is almost too perfect.

You don't have to do shit for all you lazy mofo's out there!
Go sit on the couch and rip the bong, bong rippas!
...This entire process probably takes close to one month
but it lasts at least 2 months of fruiting
if you play your cards right.

The average yield for these chambers is about 8-10 oz dry.
But it has been reported to have 1lb flushes dry! from each tub.
So next time your friend says they know all this shit
and try and run you into the ground, you know you didn't do nearly as much work!
lol
mature canopy!

18.jpg

....see the suns rays. it isn't advisable to have direct sunlight on the chamber.
17.jpg

this may raise the temps in the chamber.
use dim light but this is a nice little shot of the morning sun on the crop!

30.jpg

....You can see in this picture how fluffy and white the casing is below the mushrooms. look at the bottom left! This is what the ideal casing looks like!

19.jpg


z strain. oh yeah and just cause im a pro don't mean you can't do this!
The above pics are my first try at this tek and this is how I did it.

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malabar
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tex strain
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treasurecoast
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I hope you have enjoyed Eat U's How To!
Ya' ll come back now ya hear!

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Now, the mix isn't really the thing that matters much.
as long as you can mix a bulk substrate, you can use any mix or method you want.
By mix I mean, dung/straw, coco fiber/wbs, or whatever your hearts desire.its more to do
with not fanning and being lazy.mushroom mark at shroomery was gettin 10zip flushes off one
dub tub per flush using horsepoo.I definitely recommend horsepoo
it the best. but regardless of what subs you use, this method works.
The idea is to create a self regulating environment
that has little introduced after birthing.
once harvest happens you then do in-between flush maintenance
such as re-apply casing layers
or dunk and flood substrates.
Here are a few pics in action below.
This first one is the condensation produced using this method.
you can actually see circulation patterns in the condensation on the sides of the chamber.

binwithmoisutre.jpg

a mini dub tub.
the chambers are iris 64 liter bins that i use available at office depot. they also have smaller version that are 12 gallon. this holds the same amount of substrate and works well. and they fit easier on shelves.
they have smaller 44 quarts now but the lip is the key.
this holds the other chamber on top with a nice snug fit.

27.jpg

this shows 4 stacked high.
yes the tyvek works well. i just like polyfil bc i always like starting with new fresh material
in case contamination got on the tvyek on the inside of the chamber.

32.jpg

hole placement is debatable and the number of holes is debatable.
when i first tried this method, here is the only picture i had to go by.
thanks to mushmush.nl.

thanks guys for such a great idea.

mushmush.jpg

the one thing is this.
i can't stand fanning more than anything.
i have tried automated setups and giant room size setups.
to this day, i still find the simplicity and efficiency of this method
overwhelming enough to convince me to use it over any other method.
there are things on automated setups that irk me and cause more work. regulation and such.
and these methods are so easy.

i can douse everything down heavily with rubbing alcohol
and have almost a clean bin right after the bin was contamed.
everything is thoroughly cleaned.


Casing layer
i have updated this part big time.
this is how i used to do casing layers.
Ok Here is the casing. Get a brick of coir and let it soak with a gallon or more
of distilled water in a large bowl! After the brick absorbs the water it should
look like this! Then throw about the same amount of verm as there is coir in
the bowl and begin mixing!

casing.jpg

Mix this casing just as you did the dung/straw.
Light and fluffy! It will look something like this.
This should be enough for the 4-64 quart bins.
If not, mix more and just keep some extra in a pc'd container.
The casing is then pc'd at 15 psi for one hour!
Let the casing cool to room temp or even apply it the next day.
After that lay it out evenly and flat over the substrate.

Don't pack it down.

Let it be nice and airy!

After about 3-5 more days you should see your casing colonized.
Do not open the chamber to look. Just look through the clear lid.
That is what is so good about this tek.
The air exposure is very minimal because of these snap on lids that come with these clear chambers!

casing2.jpg


Update
i have since reverted back to an
incorporation of flatcake methods mixed with bulk substrate methods.
i stopped using casing due to laziness of making them.
instead, the casing is incorporated into the substrate
by adding this 50/50 verm/ coir into the sub.
my new ratios are this by volume:

1)50/50 coir to substrate or 1/3 ratios of coir/vermiculite/ strawnet(1:1:1)
then 10% of that volume is dung. or just the top is dusted with dung
if your using strawnet
(or eco straw litter or pelletized straw or wood or stove pellets, hemp pet bedding, ect..) as your 50% substrate,
then i mix 10% dung to coat the straw.
you can up this ratio to 15% if you want.
either way it doesn't really matter.
its the system of fruiting that i am more concerned with now.
you can make whatever ratios you want.
i'm completely with jethro on this one.

i agree 100% that the coir in the substrate makes the casing layer obsolete.

1)i get as meaty and large fruits and yield off of this substrate
without a casing layer as i do with a casing layer.
i have been experimenting with tons of stuff over the last few years
and im trying to get everything on this thread to update it.
i am way to lazy to change it at other places.

2)where the magic is, to me, is in the mix.
the big mixing box is where all the love is at.
subs like straw and strawnet are boiled.
or the eco straw litter is pre-processed and then just added to the coir.
i find that with the amount of water required to expand that coir
the extra substrate and just a bit more additional water is needed to be added.
but if your coir is extra wet then the substrate (verm, dung) will soak up this excess water.
i find that using things like this in subs: (coir, dung) soaks up the excess water
that lets say: straw, strawnet and other wet subs have.
then after that i judge the moisture content.

always make sure not to add too much and always work my way up to moisture capacity.
after that i have found mc, i then add just a bit more moisture to allow room for evaporation due to the oven.
this is all done by hand with gloves on. when it feels perfect. i put it in the tins.
at times what i do is add just enough buffer agent like dry dung to the mix
to soak up that extra moisture to field capacity. so i almost use the dung now as a moisture indicator.
it sets me on the right track. that ratio consistently seems to be 10-15% for me.
i don't use this dung as a nutrient additive although it does serve that purpose.
i use it to regulate my moisture content and soak up extra moisture that may cause
problems down the line.at the end of this post is a few attached images.
this grey box is the sterilite box that i use for mixing the substrate.
this box 3/4 full should fill 4 turkey tins of substrate.
here is another key to this.
everything i mix now is by volume and eye.
i don't measure out anything.
i judge 50/50 volume by eying it in.
so everything is not to the t.
the good thing about this mixing box is
that if you have too much volume of substrate,
you can pack it down tightly when you pastuerize it.
it doesn't matter if you sub bed is a bit higher in the chamber.
you can pack it down just bit to make the sub level where you want it.
you have room to play here.
this is why i don't put exact ratios on this.
originally in this thread i put exact ratios to give everyone an idea of what was going on.
now its really up to you.
once you find that point where the mc is correct and everything works for you.
then, you will get it down to a t, you don't have to follow this word for word.
it works well with any mix.i often vary the mix to try and see what works best.
don't get me wrong-hpoo is by far my favorite dung additive.
but sometimes your shot for time, money and all kinds of other factors.
so using worm pooor cheap black composted cow dung doesn't hurt.
this stuff is 3-5$ for a 40lb bag of it. if you use strawnet or other substrate additives like verm/coir,
adding 10% of this dung seems to work very well.

i used to use heavier dung ratios and heavier straw ratios.
i get much larger yield with a heavy straw ratio
but i find at times its difficult to deal with.
i can't stand chopping and shredding straw
and personally i don't have the space or utensils
or even the space to store the equipment to shred the straw.
so my alternative is to use substrates like strawnet
and already chopped straw like pellets.
so essentially you may look at this like a larger straw ratio being a 50% straw to 50% coir substrate.
all the ratios i have used in experimentation have worked well.
i do find, that only using vermiculite as the sub additive is about 1/4 the yield as using coir.
no matter what you do, coir is always going to absorb more moisture than the vermiculite.
i prefer coarse ground verm but any type should work.
the mix is much better with the larger verm but work with what you have.

3) i use a giant mixing box and for the most part
fill it 3/4 full. this will fill 4 turkey tins worth of substrate
packed down tightly.
then foil is placed over this on the turkey tin.

4) i cook in 4 turkey tins at 200 degrees for 4 hours.
each tin fills one 60 iris liter bin. 2-3"
depending on how tightly you pack the turkey tin.

5) let this cool overnight or time it to where you give it a good 4 hours to cool.

6) open air spawning is done using a clean area
and some trash bags like the previous method.
the utensils are all pc'd.
a shower is taken beforehand.
all air flow turned off.
ac is brought down low for an hour before. the turned off.
no airflow in the room.
the spawning is done quickly.
all polyfil and trash bags setup before hand in all bins.
each bin is thoroughly rubbed down with alc.
it is then sprayed with disinfectant spray
and closed to sit for around 30 mins.
everything is setup in the clean work area:
black trash bags, polyfil, plastic gloves, pce'd spoon covered in foil, painters mask, disinfectant spray, alc, paper towels, ozium.

a) the bin is opened quickly. turkey tin dumped in. opened one more time grain spawn spooned in.
this is all done in a row. 4 bins take up quite a bit of table space. so each process is done in a row.

B ) the key to this is to make exposure to air minimal.
keep everything inside the bin.
next is to get the spoon out
and hold two wbs quarts of colonized spawn per one turkey tin in each 60 liter iris bin.
you take both lids off and break up spawn and throw it all in the bin on top of the substrate mix.

c) make this quick. them move on to the next tub.
8 quarts per 4 tubs. 2 quarts each tub. after that and all lids are on.

d) now put gloves on and break up all spawn.
mix all spawn nice and even throughout.
make it light and fluffy and don't pack it down.
this is a very light substrate

e) put lid on and allow to incubate for about 5-7 days.
you can see through the bin to tell when the sub is 100% colonized.

7) after that colonizes it is birthed.
i am now using single tubs with polyfil holes in the sides
along with saran wrap lids. with no holes or anything.
4 pieces of tape and that is all.
8) At birth, this is what i do after that.
you can also use press n seal in place of the saran wrap. make sure you poke holes in it with a needle. around 50 or so.


(Update Feb 2009)
If you double your substrate recipe there is two things that cause problems here. double the moisture or condensation buildup and pooling water at birth. so to deal with this. immediately tilt your tub for around 4-8 hours at birth. this will allow the pooling water to run down the substrate and move around. then if you continue to have too much moisture, open up some of your polyfil holes or even just open the corners of the press n seal. you may also have to wipe down the sides of the chamber to lower the moistuere a bit.
In between dunk maintenance:
http://mycotopia.net...-2nd-flush.html
 

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Here is an example of venting during the fruiting stage, where you open up the corners to allow the rh to lower. its quite simple.



75175d1201664656-eatyu-s-how-dub-tubs-si


A word about cloning(March 08)

Growing out a flush on your substrate then cloning directly from stem tissue via 9er tek cloning method using an osterizer blender is by far the fastest method. Add this method with tvcasualty's slurry in a hurry tek and you have as many jars as you want colonized in 3 days of a clone. its quite simply amazing. its best to grow your clone off the substrate your going to use multiple times. then use this same substrate over and over. and your grows can be maximized.


Press N Seal Lids or Saran Wrap or Reynolds Rose Seal Tight?

reynolds rose seal tight is better than both pns and saran wrap. it has the best characteristics of both. it stays sticking after a few flushes unlike pns and it also has not condensation buildup like saran wrap. and it requires no tape. so its the best of both worlds. thanks sgt. poop for pointing that one out.
i have figured out a few things with these saran wrap lids.
its with the bins that i use,
but it may be useful with the beer boxes.
Someone told me about press n seal stretch wrap
similar to saran wrap but sticks to any surface. i will try this out soon
Press n seal with holes poked in the top with a needle works
like a charm mixed with an oscillating fan. Fahster pointed this one out and it works excellently!.
Press n seal will ware out after a few flushes. You will have to
reapply if you get late flushes like foaf does.
however, i think i may be onto something here.
when i do these beer boxes. i get mass condensation buildup
where i see it pooling on the substrate.
however, i didn't have the space to tilt all the boxes i was runnin at the time.
now i know my setup is a bit different than jethros box tek.
i actually use the black plastic bags
to allow the condensation to fall to the sides of the substrate
so this is a bit different.
but i thought this might be a good thing to add to this as well.
i use both of these methods. and i like both of them.
i find it a bit of a pain to punch holes in boxes.
so i have a bit sturdier plastic iris bins that i use.
these were already available so everything was adjusted with what was available.
with a really helpful hint from jethro i used saran wrap on the lids.
they are usually 12$ now.
this one might be much larger than the one i use.
iris clear stack
i find when pins start to develop,
if you wait one day when the condensation builds up,
that you won't have to open the saran wrap at all in the bins that i use,
if you tilt the bins. so that is usually the time when i have to open the corners a bit
to allow some of the condensation to escape
so that i don't get contams.
generally if i get contams its at this point.
where the moisture is too high and it gets all over the top of my substrate.
with the polyfil holes and the 45 degree tilting,
im just wondering if it creates a vaccum
that sucks in air through the polyfil holes.
it seems to work like charm where i don't have to open the boxes at all.
or the saran wrap.
now i don't open them until harvest.
at first with jethros tek,
i had trouble with water building up on the substrate surface.
i would sometimes soak it up with paper towels.
but i had a few bins contam because i wasn't around to tilt them or didn't have the space.
essentially when i tilt my boxes now,
it redistributes the moisture in the bin
and some of the droplets go underneath the black plastic.
so the underside of the substrate isn't really being touched.
so i used to tilt to not allow moisture on the casing or sub layer.
now im tilting to not allow moisture buildup on the top of the saran wrap
this prevents the moisture buildup on the casing when i catch it at this stage.
if you catch the moisture at this point and redirect it
it works like a charm
so i find that i don't have to tilt the boxes the entire time
i just eye it now
i simply see moisture building up on top, i tilt it,
if it looks fine, i place it back at a normal angle.
this gives me most of the mushrooms pointing str8 up.
here is something that may help.
im finding out about flooding and dunking.
it isn't necessarily going to work all the time.
what you should know is this.
make sure the substrate is 100% colonized if you dunk.
i have heard stories of subs contaming bc of uncolonized underneath beds.
try and leave the mix even as possible.
this allows those spawn grain to reach all spots.
if your sub is taking longer than 7 days to colonize you should worry.
sorry about the scatterbrained text,
hopefully a mod will keep this open for me to edit bc
im going to change everything on this one post so its only one post.
i don't advise against keeping your boxes tilted the entire time.
it makes no difference to me. if it works for you keep it up.
i just don't have space. my situation is a bit different that is all.
max boxes that can be tilted is 2.
most of the rotation is 2 box rotation a week. so it works out.
at this moment im using tasmanian strain.
my problem is im limited for space.
so i can't tilt all the boxes at the same time or there won't be enough room.
but i have just been observing the times when most of the moisture content has been building up. this allows me to selectively tilt my boxes.
i catch the condensation right before it builds up
and it actually only takes a few hours of the box being tilted for it to do what i need it to do.
also, the boxes i use are large boxes.
so tilting 8 of these would take up half of the room.
rather, i can tilt two boxes at a time while the others are pinning and such and so on.
below is a picture of a sub bed that has been taken 4 hours after a good tilt.
all the moisture has been redistributed in the chamber.
the sub may look extra moist with water condensation
but its actually at the perfect state right now
and this bin is going to fruit like a mofo


flooding or submerging additons

https://mycotopia.ne...-for-2nd-flush/

1) casing layer
I treat the two differently. With casing layers,
I don’t ever penetrate the casing level.
I try and only flood the casing layer itself
and with casings I do this at an hour at most.
With cakes, the entire cake soaks up all the water.
The substrate is a bit sturdier
and in most cases you don’t want to damage the casing layer.
With the substrate and no casing layer,
you have more harsh treatment you can dish out.
If anything I will generally slightly flood the casing or use a spray bottle to re-mist it.
At the most the casing is flooded an hour.
You have to be a bit careful and not tear through the casing layer.
I generally don’t use a spray on the casing layer
because I don’t want to damage the network of mycelia.
With the substrate, it can take a nice hearty beating!

2) no casing layer
I treat the substrate like a big flatcake.
I submerge the entire cake after 3rd flush.
Generally, the substrate starts pulling away from the sides of the bin after 3rd flush.
So what you can do is use the black plastic bag
and position it so that you only flood the pinning level of the substrate.
After 3rd flush you generally are going to be dunking the entire substrate.
But after a while if you leave pooling water underneath this sub bed
it will contaminate.
Make sure you pour out all excess water during the dunk
or else you will have problems. You can actually tilt your
box at a 90degree angle and use the black plastic to hold the
substrate in the tub. This will get out all the extra water.
The sink spray nozzle seems to have enough force to clear most dead pins,
and make room for the newer smaller pins.
Once they get re-hydrated, the pins begin to mature.
I don’t believe that new pins are actually forming when this happens.
I think the smaller pins were formed at the initial pin set
and they are just being re-hydrated back into animation.
I never really flooded a substrate until fm suggest it and i witnessed it in nature.
i found this field that would flood when it rained.
at least 2' over the level where the cow patties were.
this was a swamp floodplain area. it would get very dense with water.
after a few days and all the water cleared up.
the cowpies would explode.
the patties were located underneath a grove of swamp trees
and the flooding would make them explode.i mean these things would be covered
day after day, harvest after harvest.so i decided to try out flooding the cakes.
i had dunked flatcakes before between flushes
but never really wanted to try it on sub beds.
i was afraid the leachate and gunk in the subs would contam.
once i changed my ratios the mix started to seem to be more the consistency of a sponge.
the substrate actually seems to work like that. i was trying to go out ot that field
and then i found myself knee deep in water halfway through the field.
it was funny. but ever since then,i started flooding my substrates.
i just noticed but it appears that iris isnt making these larger bins anymore.
they have the smaller 44 quart bins. the ones i have are either 60 liters or 60 quarts.
i am not sure which. my tag that is on my bins say iris clear stack 64 liter storage bins.
iris smaller 44 quart bins all of this info is updated from double tubs to single tubs.
many of the techniques are the same as the pictorial.
however, a few slight modifications have been done
that seem to suit the methods better.

gallery of pictures using both of these two methods. dub tubs and single tubs.

http://mycotopia.net...70-img_1349.jpg

http://mycotopia.net...1-allen1246.jpg

http://mycotopia.net...lenimg_1245.jpg

http://mycotopia.net...img_3513-1-.jpg

http://mycotopia.net...img_3515-2-.jpg

press n seal lids now instead of saran wrap.
this is being tested now.
i may have to regulate rh more because the saran wrap is a bit looser.
this stuff really makes a tight seal.

http://mycotopia.net...img_3625-1-.jpg

and there is tons more below.
this shows a picture of where the polyfil holes are relevant to the casing layer.
usually i use 1" diamter holes.
i have heard ideas such as poking smaller holes underneath the substrate and such.
there are so many things you can do.
its all about finding what works for you.

33.jpg



is there any reason you switched from the double bin method?

good question.
well previously i had tons of space both vertically and horizontally
so i had no limit.
now i have a very confined space
so if i can utilize two tubs and get similar flush
then so be it.
i tested methods using lids, with automation, without lids using saran wrap,
anything you can think of.
i was having problems with contamination
and no air flow in my bins with saran wrap and the holes in the bins
'until i started opening the corners and tilting the boxes.
tilting is still a bit space consuming as well
so i had to stack the boxes criss cross on each other.
at the time i was doing those dub tubs i was very busy
so i didn't really have time to reply to anything.
i need to post that thread over here.
its just going to be difficult. it was difficult getting it at shroomery .i had to upload 3 pics a night.
took like a freakin week. their board wasn't as user friendly as this board is now.
i used to actually have a more difficult time posting over here than shroomery
. but now everything is running very smoothly and quite user friendly.
i thank whoever had responsibility for that...
everyone used to tell me why not use single tubs?
my only problem at the time was that i couldn't do them without fanning.
there were times when i would be away from bins for two days.
i can't fan that.
it will contam if i don't fan in two days.
ohmatic over at shroomery pointed out that you can use the lids and have good results.
so i tried it. and started experimenting.
i went through a good 6 month contam, feeling out process.
nothing seemed to work until jethro suggested using saran wrap...
thanks jethro.
ever since then,
i have just adapted it to my dub tubs
and everything is working out better than ever before.
now the yield (in my tests)i was a bit lower using a single tub.
but if you think about it this way, you now have two tubs
so double the yield which is just about equivelant of one dub tub flush. and now
i can stack these bins 8 high if need be. so it works out well.
i spend very little time maintaining things.
the time i put in is making things right before i put them in the fruiting chamber.
by the way, i used to use close to 30 of these 64 liter iris clear stacks.
now im down to like 8 with similar results.
not same yield of course because it is about half of what i used to do.
but now space efficiency is much tighter.
yield per square foot is quite pleasing.
also fanning that many bins daily is a fuckin full-time job.
this is the main reason i didn't use single tubs.
now that i can do the same thing without fanning
, then i switched.
the yield is very similar with or without casing.
i am sure if you double your substrate you will double the yield.
you just have to be aware that the condensation is going to be much higher
and you may need to regulate rh more by opening the corners and such.
here is a log by mushroom mark at shroomery.
he experimented quite a bit and made magic happen.
he was asking me quite a few questions when i first posted this post
and now he did very well.
believe it or not, that guy was just getting into the hobby and look what he did. wow!

mushroommarklog

This is an example of this method without a casing layer with a full canopy flush. This clone was taken via
9er tek cloning method.
 

70752d1198115918-tasmanian-clone-previou

70734d1198115845-tasmanian-clone-previou

79036d1204477735-treasure-coast-clone-im

79076d1204510048-treasure-coast-clone-im

79151d1204589743-treasure-coast-clone-im
 

Shmuvbox.

here is some good discussion about 9er tek along with all links
http://mycotopia.net...html#post572051

http://mycotopia.net...img_3672-1-.jpg

best invention of the century! credit to molester. its very portable and you can get a larger liner that will allow more work space. right now you can see 20 quart jars wbs and two brf jars in this pic. if you zoom in you can see the two hand holes and the eye hole. the more transparent the bag the better. you won't need the eye hole if the bag is transparent.
this is such a great invention. i sold my flowhood. i have poured plates, taken clones, made spore syringes, g2g transfers, you name it, it has been done in this thing. portable, effective, cheap! can't go wrong!
i use a shmuvbox. it is a hepa with a big clear trash bag over it, you place all your clean tools, fruits for cloning, and benzo torch to sterilize your blades in this bag.
usually i will wipe down every single part of this hepa with 70-90% rubbing alc. be anal, spray it with disinfectant spray. this thing will pour plates and take clones easily. holmes brand hepa filters with a small ionizer built in are a great size. you only need a small room size filter. and it should be around 30$ at walmart.
once you put the bag around the filter, tape it down to the table your working on. this will in turn, allow the bag to stay put.
now blow your bag up that has all your cooled utensils and sterile equipment in it.
turn on the hepa and when it blows up, cut two holes in it for your hands. one for each. and if you can't find 100% clear lawn bags for the bag, you can cut eye holes as well. this produces positive air pressure and forces out the bad stuff. its real simple, clones can be taken and it stores nicely. its efficient and takes up little space, and hides easily.

Some detail about Spawning(Update 2009)
what i do is fill turkey tins with substrate and with the proper moisture content but slightly above to account for evaporation in the oven. i cook it at 170-200. depend on the accuracy of your stove. for 2.5-4 hours and allow to cool. i then wipe down my tubs with alc and place a black plastic bag in them, polyfil in the holes and then close the lid. ill have all my spawn ready, and the substrate in the turkey tins covered in foil right on the table.
ill then open the lid real quick dump a turkey tin or two in each tub. then close the lid real quick. i then get a bmfs(big mother fuckin spoon) and clean it with alc. take note, ive pre cleaned all the area and all utensils prior to this. then i take my grain jars. open the lid. spoon it right on top of the substrate . after that is done i close the lid and move to the next bin. thus making air exposure minimal but at times have let it sit in open air for quite a long time. so, at the end i put gloves on and mix it up all real nice even, fluffy and light. and let it incubate in the dark. ill place black plastic over that and wait for 100 percent colonization.
once that occurs. i place the bin in the light. after a few days into Pinning i start fanning with the lids. if im not using the lids and im using press n seal. ill just do nothing. poke holes in the press n seal and face a fan right at the bins. it works great. you can remove condensation here and there if its too high building up. but, it works well. let me know. i have illustrations on my big thread if you need a link. ill actually add this email to my tek bc alot of ppl ask me this. thanks!

here is a club dedicated to tub growing. good discussions in there. ask anything you want.

http://mycotopia.net...s-tub-club.html


ive come up with something to solve the criss cross box stacking that takes up much less room. this is if your using a saran wrap or press n seal lid. you can stack them directly on top of eachother now.
these are rods that you insert for plant stability in your plant pot when you tie the plant to it. these are 24" and they cost 69 cents each at walyworld in the plant/garden section.
anyway here are pics to illustrate this.

IMG_3912_1_.jpg

IMG_3911_1_.jpg

hey just remember guys this tek is a guide. you can use whatever ratios and substrates you want with great results as many have proved before. its just a method of prep that allows for quick spawn run and great fruiting with little effort. the idea is to make things as hands free as possible. id suggest using horse poo as your bulk sub but at times this isn't available for everyone. so use whats close to you. now im going with black cow dung/straw bc its easily available. the results aren't as good as hpoo but its whats available.

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Edited by Sidestreet, 08 October 2016 - 09:24 AM.
editing

  • Burger and bosshogg like this

#2 Hippie3

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:33 AM

merged it all into one, Eats, now you can edit.

#3 leomanxvii

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 01:17 PM

I love this.. can't disagree with that one

#4 pareil

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 02:23 PM

very elegant ;) simplicity rules!
i for one am glad to see your retirement wasn't permanent.
thank you for publishing this :bow:

#5 CoyoteMesc

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 02:30 PM

Great work Eats. :thumbup:

#6 Sunstar

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 03:03 PM

awesome write up.:eusa_clap

nice job:thumbup:

#7 eatyualive

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 04:35 PM

pareil, i came here just now to try and resize a few photos so that it would be more tolerable to view on the screen. my intenetions were not for this to happen. i will try and get it fixed. im still gettin used to the board. i was having really really bad trouble at shroomery for a while. to the point where i didn't post all the details at that site. im trying to pull most of it or what i have of it.

#8 Dipole

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 04:55 PM

That is awesome! How can one argue about that?

#9 Hippie3

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 05:16 PM

ok,
i'm termporarily closing this to further comments
as i do so editorial work on it.
bear with me plz...
:bow:

#10 Hippie3

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 07:17 PM

i did what i could,
apparently there's some splicing of various snippets from threads that were hard to reconcile without access to original text.
the linked pics from other threads had to remain as links,
the ATTACH tag i used on the others to get them small & in-line only works on pix within the post [uploads]

#11 eatyualive

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 07:25 PM

you did great hip. im not sure what that
tag code is though that make the picture smaller
like that.
i liked that comment hippie in red...lol with the ah but hippie isn't. sorry i didn't mean to add that. i just copied it and pasted it. i didn't think today would have been a down time day. usually doesn't happen. holy crap it would have taken me days to edit it the way you did. much appreciated.
How I do Jars(The Lazy Way)

i know people are going to say i suck i don't preserve my strains. i have quite
a library but most of what i am growing is all the
sames strains i have. so these to me are all throwout strains.
im not taking genetics off of them and they
are just meant to die out.
this is not suggested if you are trying to preserve
anything lol. this is one and done to me. one set of 12 jars
last me 12 months.

Materials
1) get 1 10cc syringe from a spore vendor
2) i do 24 1/2 pint pf jars ala pftek but i
use a blender to make the mix nice and consistent.
these are tall 1/2 pints.
3) i inoculate 10 pf jars per syringe with one 10cc
syringe. this is stretching them thin in my opinion.
if i want speed ill inject one syringe into 4 jars.

Procedure
1) once these ten jars colonize 100%, 1 jar is
kept in incubation, the other 9 jars are put in
the fridge as master jars.
2) the one pf jar is then grain 2 grain trasnfered
(g2g) to 12 quarts of wild birdseed quart jars.
this is done using a shmuvbox.
a shmuvbox is
something that molester invented.
its basically a clear plastic trash bag with hand cutouts
that is attached directly over a hepa with an ionizer.
you can do sterile work in it like its a glovebox and it cleans up nicely.
i have poured plates and done clones in this without any problems.
i love it so much i got rid of my flowhood.
the jar is scraped into tiny pieces using a fork.
everything is pc'd and
done sterile in the shmuvbox.
3) once these 12 jars are colonized in about a week.
2 jars are kept in the incubation.
4) the other 10 jars are spawned to bulk substrates
5) the 2 exta quart jars wbs are then g2ged to 48 more
jars for the 3rd transfer.
6) if everything is looking good with this flush i will
stretch it one more generation.
it isn't suggested but you
will be able to tell when the mycelia isn't catching
all the seed in the jars.
this is a good indicator
that the mycelia is a bit weakened by the multiple transfers.
7) then once you are done with about 3-4 generations
on wild bird seed. y
ou can start back with your pf masters.

i find it easier to do pftek.
its always a 100% sure-fire
way that i don't get contams. it never fails.
so this
is why masters are kept on brf jars.
i am sure it
doesn't preserve the genetics in a good way
but these
jars will be used before 1 year is up.
this seems to be
my time frame for when i start seeing horrible
performance by a strain
stretched thin.


so far in 8 months i am on
pf jar 3. and everything is
performing excellently.

#12 Hippie3

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 07:33 PM

the code is ATTACH instead of IMG
and use just the number of the pic,
not the entire url.
for example-
[/url]http://mycotopia.net/forums/attachments/fungi-growing-edible-medicinal-magic-mushrooms/57740d1185888354-eatyus-how-dub-tubs-single-tubs-31.jpg[/url]

the pic is number 57740
so using ATTACH like IMG
31.jpg
now it didn't show
because in order to work
the pic must be uploaded in the same post using the ATTACH tag,
it makes it disappear from thumbnails and appear in-line in the text.

#13 Freaky

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 07:48 PM

Thanks for this post Eatyu!

Dub Tubs are my favorite way to grow. And they are very adaptable, I like that a lot.

:bow:

#14 eastwood

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:02 PM

Nice ... Great write up .... maybe try this on my next grow .. Keep hearing good about these
dub ///single tubs .....

#15 eatyualive

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:09 PM

...i know i know. i move em around so they get really scattered light.
hip did a really great job of editing this. i am so freakin scatter brained that i couldn't even stare at the cpu screen anymore. my brain is so fried from the day. thanks!
[attach]57844[/attach]
thanks. you can actually see the moisture droplets on the pinning level. this is a bulk sub with no casing. same as updated tek above in action. tazmanian strain. i have more pics of these things in action. about a years worth. but thats another days work! lol...

#16 CoyoteMesc

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:27 PM

You do beautiful work eats...

#17 hyphaenation

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 09:14 PM

There you have it folks....

membership truely does have its benefits !

Some of the best free information you'll ever receive right here. Please kick back by making a donation or supporting a sponsor. Its free to us , but by no means free to run.

:weedpoke:

#18 Guest_Doesntmatter_*

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 02:25 PM

damn, thats a nice writeup. Thanks for the credit but I got the idea for the
press and seal from various threads here at mycotopia. the stuff is pretty
neat even if you don't use it for this hobby.

-DM-

#19 thedoors728

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 04:04 PM

thnx

#20 eatyualive

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 09:47 AM

success: pins using press n seal. this bin hasn't been opened at all since birth. it gets a bit of a draft of air when the bin itself is birthed. so thanks fahtster for posting about this stuff, or whoever tried it first. this is great stuff!:headbang:

i didn't put any tyvek or anything like that. the press n seal was double wide on these bins. the center was left very loose so that it almost had a 1/4" gap in it that is open air. this wasn't pressed together. this i believe allows me to not fan. this is similar to what i do with the tape using saran wrap.

this bin will be tilted 45 degrees tommorow via jethro's box tek. here is where i tilt it for one day. there isn't much condensation on the top of the press n seal but when i opened this bin for a picture i could feel the humidity blast. it was quite warm in there. tommorow the condensation should build up double and then the box is tiled for one day.
[attach]58044[/attach]




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