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#21 fattyz

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:37 PM

Hi all, my jars are "going white" at different rates, the different strains are most likely the reason. So about half of them are mostly white. :mistrust: I'm a little concerned that they seem to be going "soft" white all at once as compared to the bright white streaks near the inoculation points like I have seen in so many jars pictured here. Is this ok? There is only one or too jars that might be contaminated, showing small blackish green spots mixed in with the white. I will let things continue and post pics in a day or two.

I feel like an expectant dad!!

FattyZ

#22 python

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 09:43 PM

if they are obviously contamed, toss em sooner than later (the whole jar)

and just be patient and let things be............the mycelia will not stay perfectly rhizomorphic so don't worry

#23 Hippie3

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 09:50 PM

light is harmless
assuming no high energy lasers nearby :laser:

#24 fattyz

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 09:19 AM

I will put some pix up as soon as I can. I don't know if it's contamination or not. I could be growing mold. I read quite a bit about it last night and it seems the jars often look moldy first and then the mycelium will thicken up/develop. Like python said we will wait a bit and see. A couple of the jars are really getting white, which happend all at once in a couple days. If its mold and not myc, i assume it'll turn some other color and so give itself away?

Thx

#25 fattyz

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 08:45 PM

Sigh....

Here are some pix, let me know what u think.. I took 2 of the jars out of the incubator, these had the fastest moving all over the jar white growth. They still look like they contain myc but, the verm in the holes in the lids has gone black. (you may or may not be able to see this in the pic) These are the jars pictured together on the shelf. I am afraid they are probably fully contaminated with cobweb mold.

The rest of the jars, though all showing white myc growth, all contain some grey/blue mold. Can the healthy myc win and fully colonize the jars in this situation? I am willing to wait and see. (at least until I order and receive some more jars/bags) The pix make the green shit show up much more and look worse than it did when I was looking at them! ahh well, you always look worse on TV!

I assume from another post I read that it is a big no no to open a jar that is full of contams (the guy in the post was sick and he thought it was from mold) Plus I assume the spores (in the billions) blast out of the jars and fill the house up with contams. No chance of bleach dunking or anything like that, right?

gawd, welcome to mushroom cultivation 101!

:rolleyes:

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#26 Hippie3

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 07:40 AM

nope.
you got the spores from max at sporelab , right ?
he owes you a refund.

#27 fattyz

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:20 AM

Yes, that's correct I got them from Max at sporelab. I will let him know.
So I should scrap all 12 Jars?

FattyZ

#28 Hippie3

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:30 AM

if they all look like those
no other real choice but the dumpster

#29 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:38 AM

So I should scrap all 12 Jars?


Um, yes.

I've seen Trich growing right up through the verm barrier (it will grow up from a contaminated cake but not down from the dry verm layer, a distinction I hope makes sense), so even having those jars inside your house can risk future grows. Don't turn them upside down, or even move them unnecessarily, just get rid of them.

I have tried injecting bleach or peroxide into the inoculation holes before discarding contamed jars, putting jars in the freezer (when only just slightly contamed, then the whole frozen chunk slips out into the trash in one piece), and PCing them (discard immediately after PCing). But certainly get rid of them somehow! Being already green (which means the trich is sporulating) I would consider throwing the whole mess, jars and all, out or I would PC them at 15 psi for an hour, throw away the cake, then wash the jars thoroughly (get the funk out of your house, not just in your kitchen trashcan waiting for trash day).

#30 Hippie3

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:46 AM

best way = open jars while holding them submerged in bleachwater so no mold spores become airborne

#31 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:00 AM

best way = open jars while holding them submerged in bleachwater so no mold spores become airborne


There you go, that's the ticket!

I think I've been gradually spiraling in closer and closer to that procedure as I've tried different ways of dealing with contamed jars in the safest and easiest way, but I prefer to skip ahead and just read the answer, so thanks fer posting it! I mean, Duh! It's obvious once I saw it spelled out...

So you see, FattyZ, even someone who's been growing ~10 years is still learning helpful details that others might have been using for a long time. And everyone still gets trich sometimes, no matter how long they've done this, so don't let the green discourage you. Above all, keep at it!

#32 fattyz

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:14 AM

Any chance I can bed cakes in the compost heap in the backyard? i think I read that mold dies outside?
I'm not scared to open them cause I have a paint/dust ventilator I wear for all jobs like that.
Thx

#33 Hippie3

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:20 AM

you can dispose of the evidence that way
[not the most secure tho']
but
i see very little good mycelia there,
frankly the chances of any harvest are nil.
you still have way too much uncolonized substrate
which, by the time you remove with all the mold,
leaves you almost nothing to go with.

#34 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:31 AM

Any chance I can bed cakes in the compost heap in the backyard? i think I read that mold dies outside?
I'm not scared to open them cause I have a paint/dust ventilator I wear for all jobs like that.
Thx


Salvaging a grow by tossing it outside works when it has been otherwise successful but started to contam late in the game. I can salvage a tray that is starting to contaminate only if it's already been fully colonized, and the contamination is not covering too much of it (this is a subjective judgement call). Your jars will not work this way.

And although there is the possibilty of lung infections from opening moldy jars (especially with the more colorful molds), the larger risk is in spreading the mold spores throughout your house, where they stick to the walls, ceiling, floor, air ducts, furniture, in other words everything. Walking by stirs them up, as does vacuuming or when your AC kicks on, etc.

So, having contamination in one's house can result in future grows failing completely or contaminating after only a flush or two. Time for a bleach-mopping of as many surfaces as practical. I mop my ceilings, walls, windows, and floor in the room I use for culture work. I still get trich sometimes, but it's rare.

#35 fattyz

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:55 AM

:eusa_boohI see my duty, and i'll do it. Like I said, I'll probably dump the jars outside or something, maybe keep 1 or 2 of the less severe ones (i'll keep them under wraps to lessen the danger of in - house contamination) all just to keep me busy while regrouping for another project launch.

I'll keep you posted.

FattyZ

#36 fattyz

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:09 AM

I'm going to buy a pressure cooker. (it only took me thinking about it last night to decide) I don't know exactly where or how I'll do the actual pressure cooking but, a way will present itself. I know if I can produce my own jars/bags I'll be in a much better position to tolerate project mishaps (like the one I'm going thru now). I knew I would do it eventually and plan to make spore prints myself and all that, it's just that I was hoping I could spend a few bucks and do and invitro grow which would produce and I could think about "getting more into the hobby" later.

The best laid plans....

I have as many stores locally as can be had in the general vacinity of any major US metropolitan area. I'm planning to start shopping/pricing at WalMart. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Yours,:eusa_clap

#37 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 06:36 AM

I'm going to buy a pressure cooker. (it only took me thinking about it last night to decide) I don't know exactly where or how I'll do the actual pressure cooking but, a way will present itself. I know if I can produce my own jars/bags I'll be in a much better position to tolerate project mishaps (like the one I'm going thru now). I knew I would do it eventually and plan to make spore prints myself and all that, it's just that I was hoping I could spend a few bucks and do and invitro grow which would produce and I could think about "getting more into the hobby" later.
The best laid plans....
I have as many stores locally as can be had in the general vacinity of any major US metropolitan area. I'm planning to start shopping/pricing at WalMart. Any other suggestions are welcome.
Yours,:eusa_clap


Doing everything yourself is nice, and gives you total control over the grow, and it does make it easier to diagnose the sources of problems (by leaving a jar or bag uninoculated to verify that sterilization was achieved, among other things).

But in this particular case, you report receiving the jars on 8/3 and your spores on 8/6. So, your presterilized jars were first shipped, which took at least two days (I assume you did not use overnight express mail). Then, they sat at your house for three more days. Finally, the growth appeared around the 9th. That makes a minimum of six days between when they were sterilized and when the trich appeared.

My conclusion based on my experience, the dates and timing, and your photos: The jars were not contaminated until they were inoculated. Unfortunately, we weren't able to watch your technique as you inoculated, which would be helpful. We'd notice if you accidentally sucked room air into the syringe before you used it, for example, which is one way to contaminate a syringe (though you said you used two syringes, and it seems unlikely that you sucked enough bad air into both of them to contaminate every inoculation point of all the jars -which is the impression I have of what happened, correct?)

Also, if trich had gotten in the jar before 8/3, you would have noticed the growth beginning before the 9th. Trich really hauls ass in brf jars, as you've seen, and it starts out white before turning green which makes it's early stage easy to spot. When one of my jars goes green, I see it clearly within the first three days, and I think others would report similar observations.

If the jar had been contaminated before it got to you, it would have been obvious already by the time you shot the spores. This does not prove where the trich actually came from, but it eliminates one possible source. Rapid advancement in home mycology comes primarily from being able to track disasters back to their source (forensics, basically) and then adjust accordingly. Next time, leave one jar uninoculated; it helps tremendously in troubleshooting, but your time-stamped posts were almost just as helpful in this case.

Good luck for next time!

#38 fattyz

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:32 AM

Your assessment on the timing is correct and and I arrive at the same conclusion. (As did Hip) The jars were here three full days and clean before I injected them.

During the inoculation, I first washed my hands carefully, I wore a dust mask, (sterile) I heated the needle between each separate hole ( 4x per jar) till it glowed red and then wiped it down with a sterile alcohol swab, which I changed 4 -5 times during the process of whacking the 12 jars. Also, I was not in the environment in the pix, I was in my office. The bldg is quite clean (sterile compared to my house) and has very little organic matter around. We don't even have any plants in there. In addition, I'm sure I did not draw air into the syringe but pushed out the air bubbles in the syringes. After that, I just remember boiling off the material left in the syringe after each injection with the lighter so, I don't think I could have contaminated them myself.

After that the first growth appeared within three days in most of the jars. and in my post re the event I even called it "spiderweb type mold" which it turns out was more accurate than I knew. By 8/12 I was thinking things were not quite right and I don't think I bothered to mention the little green spots I was seeing, hoping that I was growing myc and not mold.

I placed a reorder and plan to regroup and start again. Right now I am waiting on Sporelab as I requested a whole new batch of Spores. I did not hear back from him yesterday, but expect to hear today. Hip is in the loop on this I think it is in the Lab's best interest to replace all the first order with new product.

I'll keep you posted!

#39 fattyz

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:47 AM

Hi Everyone,

I am shopping a bit before starting my next project and one thing I think I'd like to have is a glove box. I have been looking around the forums and I think I have seen a "how to build a glove box and make it sterile" If anyone can direct me to that I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

#40 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:53 AM

http://mycotopia.net...oxes-flowhoods/

lots of GBs there :)
those rubbermaid tubs are probably the easiest
where you just make holes on the lids to fit the gloves
good luck :thumbup:




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