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#41 fattyz

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:15 AM

thx that looks like a pretty easy and cheap device to make to ensure a contam free noc. BTW, you guys are great at responding. I particularly like the welcome post you put up everytime a new member comes on. It makes me laugh but I know it is very useful and answers most questions that come up.

#42 fattyz

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 02:47 PM

Hi i have some time and a few syringes and i am wondering.....

Is there a simple PF type jar i can make and not PC, or perhaps one I can just double boil for an hour or so.

The reason I ask is I need to do a small scale in between project, and I thought I read a reference to a jar you did not have to PC.

Any directions to threads are greatly appreciated. I am going to get a PC, I just am so busy right now I can't but can probably throw a few jars together if its possible.

Truly yours

#43 Hippie3

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:26 PM

> fractional sterilization <

pftek jars can be just steamed too.

#44 fattyz

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:42 PM

Hi all,
my jars which were contaminated from the beginning and which i was told pretty much by everyone to trash, well, I kept most of them. Mostly cause i had no ohther project going at the time and because where they are is not a clean room and though i am not opening any jars there, i'm not really worried about it. (getting the room contaminated)
2 of the worst jars, the ones that colonized within a few days with cobweb mold I shitcanned. Meaning I mixed them with some rabbit shit, covered them up with straw, mixed in some 10% bleach water and left them outside. Even those jars had some myc growing in them. I have a couple more jars to add to that in the next day or 2. Only one has no myc in it at all, just green, yellow and black stuff. (dumpster) You don't have to tell me this is a waste of time, I know that. If the chance is 1 in a million, it's still not totally impossible.
My question is....the rest of the jars, contaminated and still incubating, are still growing myc, and some look to be 80/90% colonized. They still have the contams in places but in some places the myc seems to have grown through the contamination. 2 of the jars, with the strongest myc growth seem to be showing signs of knotting, or bumpy surface. (in spots) A few of the other jars are about 50/50. The myc is still spreading in them though.(the contams don't seem to advance as much as the white myc but remain pretty much local.) Re reading the tek i am going to get the strongest jars exposed to light and lower temp from now on. As any of the jars get mostly white I will do this. If knots and pins show, I'll open them and get them some air and maybe flip them and remove the verm layer right? Maybe a bleach dunk?
So if the myc is still growing, there must be some chance that a jar or 2 might pin? I'll try and put a few pics up tonight. And if there is no chance and I should still shitcan the whole thing, that's ok, I can take it.

#45 fattyz

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 10:13 PM

here are some pics, sorry they are blurry, I put up the best ones, I guess my digital is not that good! Like I said, most of the contamination appeared at the same time (or before) the myc did but, It really did not spread in most of the jars (I have 9 of twelve, these pics are of the best 5) As you can see, the myc is shot thru the contams in most places and the jars look to be going all white (at least those five)

Thanks

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#46 TVCasualty

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:35 AM

Do yourself a favor and don't open those in your house!

They would've been long gone by now if those had been my jars. There may be that one in a million chance of some fruits, but there's a one in one chance of greatly increasing the level of contaminant spores throughout the house, which can jeopardize future grows. Once the vermiculite barrier is breached, you can be sure the mold is already sporulating right out of those jars, trailing a cloud of spores every time you move them around.

Considering the relatively minimal effort needed to make up all new jars and the potential cost of keeping bad ones, attempting to salvage the bad ones is clearly a false economy in the long run.

You could dump them outside away from your house (if possible) under a bush or something, and let them get rained on or simulate some with the hose. That's the only way I've ever managed to get anything from a substrate that was already obviously contaminated, but the key is getting it out as soon as possible (the moment I positively identify it as contaminated, I toss it).

And try a different syringe next time. If the contams appeared at the same time (and place- by the inoculation holes) as the myc did, that sounds like the syringe is probably the culprit (assuming properly made jars). When contamination issues arise, a helpful tool for tracking down the source is leaving a PC'd or steamed jar uninoculated, to see if/how it contaminates.

Good Luck!

#47 fattyz

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 09:33 AM

yeah well, the verm barriers are not breached (except in a couple that i threw out) and like i said, its hard to imagine that the root cellar, which is where they are, could be any more infested with mold and bacteria than it already is. The jars I opened, I opened outside, and I wouldn't noc anything anywhere in the house except if were in a glove box.

Those original syringes are gone and have been replaced. They are hips jars and I know they were ok.

I'm still waiting for new supplies from hip and will be starting a new project when I get the stuff. BTW, what prevents the myc from fruiting? Is it just the presence of the contams in the jars? The mushies in the wild must have to compete with other organisims? I take it from what I have read and your reply that the jars have to be 100% myc and nothing else or they won't fruit?

You'll have to pardon a first time grower his folly, (keeping the jars) they told me to chuck them out weeks ago. When I first got going, I was thinking I'd have some fruits in a fairly short time. Now the event horizon is pushed back to who knows when. Watching the myc growing in the jars is keeping me busy!

Thx

#48 mushit

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 06:58 PM

Hi all, I have on order 12 presterilized jars (PF style) with reservoirs added, and six spore syringes.

Even if the jars are pre sterilized I would re-sterilize them before innoculating. I don't know where the jars came from so it is best to be safe and at least boil them for an hour.

I wouldn't blame the spores in this grow. There are too many variables...........

#49 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 09:15 PM

I have had the most success in the past with a combonation of hippie 3 invitro bags and spore syringes from hillbilly. I don't grow now but when I did proper use of a ghetto glove box and the above supplies should give you 100% success rate every time. Also its cheap; 45 (bags) + 25 (syringes) + 20 (GGB) = $90.

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#50 Hippie3

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:49 AM

you can get invitro fruits off partially/mildly contaminated jars, not that i recommend that.

#51 fattyz

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 08:56 AM

It's funny you said that cause I had already decided on Hillbilly as a supplier and to build a glove box for my next noc. Thanks for the advice.

I have gotten rid of all but 5 of my remaining jars and learned a little more about contams and what is actually growing in those little buggers. I understand a little better now why everyone said shitcan them from the start and don't hold out much hope for fruits out of them.

When I opened a couple jars outside (Wed nite) and transferred the little myc that was in them into my "outside fall grow bucket" (compost bucket I am throwing myc from jars in) I was shocked at the clouds of grey spores/dust that exploded out of them. For some reason, I just did not realize how dry it is in those things, or how dusty that grey mold is. I can see why everyone said get them out of the house at once. heh

I should get my new bags/jars from hip any day and be ready to "start again."

Everyone has been really helpful and I appreciate it!

#52 TVCasualty

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:05 AM

Yep, and remember that the clouds you are seeing are made of vast numbers of microscopic spores, but the less-obvious aspect of contamination is that there are invisible clouds emerging from any sporulating culture when it's only slightly disturbed, so what you saw was a nice visualization of what happens whenever a contaminated jar is opened (except that most of the time the cloud is invisible). Also, running away from the cloud attracts many spores to you, too, as they get caught in the air eddys formed behind you as you retreat from the Cloud of Funk (this phenomenon is what still-air gloveboxes are designed to minimize). Watch someone walk through a cloud of smoke sometime to see this in action.

Another thing is that these contams have evolved amazing water-repellency. The jar might be really wet in general, even have some pooling at the bottom, but the spores will be bone-dry. Once, with a contaminated straw log, I dropped some peroxide on the gray funk, and it just beaded right off it like water off a freshly-waxed car (while sending up a small cloud of spores at the same time). So, certain ways of trying to fight back (or applying them at the wrong time) makes contams worse.

Keep at it; a few weeks of doing is at least as instructive as a few months of reading... and good luck!

#53 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 12:02 PM

True True, TV

There are strains that are highly contam resistant.

If cleanliness is a problem ( it is for me ) you may want to experiment with hillbillies, B+, or Dixie, IME once you have some healthy 100% colonized spawn it's really hard to get the stuff to go green. I use no temp controls or FAE, just fanning once or twice a day.

The only time cleanliness is really important is when trying to grow spawn. Use a glovebox and you'll never go wrong.

I tried open air forever, with mixed results, because I was to lazy to make a box and all that. The second I used a glove box, I started hitting 100% success rate with contam fre colonization. Ghetto boxes are disposable if stealth is important.

Also large oven bags bought at the grocery store can also be used in a pinch.
Simply put the tools in the bag Syringe, jar, alchol swab etc. Spray the inside with lysol, seal the bag,
manipulate your tools carefully using the bag as a barrier.

:horse::horse::horse::headbang:

#54 fattyz

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 12:28 PM

yeah, thanks. I was thinking about that 2 you know, about the invisible cloud vs the visible and how much of that shit got stuck to me even though I did it outside.

That's ok though like I said, I am not going to do anything anywhere in there that will involve the chance of contams getting in, i will do a ghetto glove box for my next noc.

What I have done is taken my last five jars which did contain contams but were mostly good myc, and set up a chronic tek.


I did a light bleach dunk first to help clean off the contams. Then I just set them up standard chronic.I know dunking is not required for the first flush when doing chronic, but since the jars are already dirty I figured it might help them out. I'll take some pics if I get any pins.

#55 bill_cooper

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

thanks for this thread
i read it last night
i am contemplating a first grow soon
the issue of contams are of utmost concern to me
i do not have a pc
so i am planing to buy premade jars from a sponsor
inoculation seems to be the key area for contams
perhaps second only to incubation

#56 fattyz

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:27 PM

Yes, thanks to one and all, I tried to make it a newbie journal. I sure learned alot. BTW, is there any way to do LC without a PC? I am just reading about it now. Looks faster.

If you get the jars shot up clean, you shoud be ok. (I don't think i'll do it again without a ghetto glove box) the vermiculite barrier does the rest and will keep them clean while the myc colonizes the jars. (if you do jars)

The reason I birthed was to counter the contams. (I had originally planned to fruit invitro) I figured the contams were competing for resourses in the jars and the myc had reached its peak in there. That's why I chose to birth and bleach dunk pre-maturely. The knotting pinning in the jars was minimal, but underway. I reasoned that the jars had quite a bit of good myc growth, but probably would not fruit invitro or would take a long time, which might allow the contams to win.

There seems to be something happening now in the chronic jars, and I hope to have a new report in a day or 2!!

#57 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 05:53 PM

I have had sucess making an LC in a microwave.

you'll need

a glass pint jar

a plastic lid

Karo syrup

distilled water.

Make sure jar is squeaky clean. Add teaspoon of caro to pint of distilled water.

put lid on loosely.

microwave on high for 3 minutes

let it sit for a minute

microwave for 2 minutes

sit for a minute

microwave for 1 minute

open the microwave and using a clean towel, or oven mitts, gloves, etc. tighten the lid.

let the liquid cool.

then its ready to use.

I use a nice glove box so I simply open the jar in the box when I need a syringe full.

It is easy to put two holes in the lid and cover them with silicone for self sealing injection ports. I'm just to lazy to take the extra step. Some places actually sell the plastic lids with the ports allready in them.

hope this helps.

easiest way I know.

#58 fattyz

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 06:38 PM

that's great thx. so if I get this, and forgive me I am going to read some more in the next day or so, I can grow out a liquid culture in about a week and then fully colonize 1/2 pts in about a week as well, correct?

Thx again

PS as an aside, TV mentioned the mold spores having the quality of being able to survive having water get on them and still be able to go airborne. I opened some of the worst of my jars in a 5 gal bucket of bleach water and they contained so much mold that it came right up thru the water and became airborne. Tuff stuff, really wants to spread itself around!

#59 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 07:35 PM

most LC's from MS innoc IME take 2-4 weeks to maturity at room temps.

using tissue from inside a stem, then dipped in 3% HO2 and some distilled water for 5 minutes to kill the badies, then put into your LC usually takes 2-3 weeks at room temps, IME, or so I've read ;)

Your half pints should be 100% and ready to birth in 10-14 days given that you are using an aggresive strain, remember, no matter how well you prepare some times you might get a poor performing strain, its a throw of the genetic dice starting from MS, using clone tissue or a small piece of mych assures continuation of allready proven genetics.

if you can find a magnetic stirrer and raise the temps in the 80's you could have a great LC in a week !!!

IME using an LC speeds things us by about a week and lends to vigorous Mych

Using grain to Grain spawning can increase times even greater to a week over LC's

IMO grain to grain is the easiest way to make spawn.

:pirate:

#60 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 09:32 AM

PS as an aside, TV mentioned the mold spores having the quality of being able to survive having water get on them and still be able to go airborne. I opened some of the worst of my jars in a 5 gal bucket of bleach water and they contained so much mold that it came right up thru the water and became airborne. Tuff stuff, really wants to spread itself around!


Yup, mold has a lot of experience spreading itself around, so has developed some really impressive strategies. Never underestimate the enemy!

The absolutely safest thing to do with a contaminated jar (second to bagging and tossing the whole thing in the trash) is to PC it before cleaning it out.

Especially at the early stages of a grow (like multispore to LC), it's best to make redundant cultures and very helpful to leave one "blank" (uninoculated). For example, if I need two jars of LC to inoculate my spawn jars, I'll make five and one will be left blank. It saves a few weeks of regrowing if one contaminates, and the blank will help in tracking down the source of a problem.

Magnetic stirrers or a shaker table (many believe shaker tables are better but I don't know) make LC's much quicker and of higher quality, and are well worth it.

These DIY magnetic stir plate threads should keep you busy for awhile...

http://mycotopia.net...ic-stirrer.html

http://mycotopia.net...plate-bars.html

http://mycotopia.net...lates-bars.html




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