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Popcorn issues


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#1 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:37 PM

This isnt a post about corn being contamed for not preping it right and so forth, just a strange experience that i'm unsure about with popcorn in my area, i've tried different brands from all over town and they all seem to be about the same when it comes to colonization.. I bought a bag of white popcorn, pressure cooked the corn, dried them, loaded them into jars with tyvek filters, pc'd for 70 minutes, then I also did some brf jars just in case the corn ones didnt work, just some nice backup jars. total of 6 jars, 2 brf 4 corn, all inc. with Mazatapec syringes that where basically all LC and some spore water, 1cc per jar one injection spot. 3 of the corn jars fell to trich within the first week, 1 of them just didnt show any signs of mold or myc growth so i just let the one sit there for about a day then injected it with 1cc of ecuador spores, and within the first few days myc growth appeared but it doesnt seem to be expanding its growth at all besides from the few kernals it has a good foot hold in, all the while the brf cakes showed growth within the first few days and a good amount of colonization. Is it just the corn perhaps in my area that just doesnt colonize worth a hell or maybe something else?..

#2 spacecake

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:47 PM

Hmmm trich cannot happen when it's sterilized,try a longer pc time like 90 minutes..

Altho I have to say,I myself..am back to brf ,because I think corn failes to often..
I'm gonne try fresh corn again end summer,that was alot easy'er then dried corn.

#3 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:54 PM

but I found it still strange that from the same PC batch 1 out of the 4 jars didnt show any sign of contam and now shows growth little may it be, corn just doesnt work for me during the summer, too many molds and pollens in the air.. really should have stuck to brf for the summer or maybe wbs. Was the first time using corn during the summer months, ah well, 8 pounds of corn later heh.. least its dirt cheap. I think trich got into some of the other jars when i was inoc, not really sure how but somewhere something must of happened that got it exposed, didnt use a glove box just a small room that was sterilized very well but not well enough I guess. oh well.. Any ideas on why its such slow growth in the corn compared to my brf?(the brf was hippies supercake formu - thanks hippie and anyone else who helped out with the formu, always gotten great yields and grows from them)

#4 (nilla)

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:54 PM

Do you do a presoak over night to help release endospores?

#5 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:55 PM

no, for some reason presoaks always seemed to end with even worse results for me then if i didnt presoak and just pc'd the corn to hydrate

#6 (nilla)

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:01 PM

Any pooling of h2o in jars?
Are they colonizing at all before this?
Maybe a bad seal with your tyvek patch??

#7 (nilla)

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:04 PM

Also if its to wet inside it will start then halt like you have described.
Or if its released to much starch due to cracked kernals"which a presoak can help to avoid"

#8 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:05 PM

no pooling but the corn was wet because of the pc time but they evened out their water content within the first few hours before i have inoc'd them so water in the jars shouldnt of been an issue, tyvek was covering the entire jar+metal band and a hole was drilled in the metal lid, so the seal of the tyvek should of been way well enough, none colonized till about day 11-12, within that time 3 went bad and the 1 was reinjected with EQ strain spores, then showed growth, even though the same syringe from the BRF was also inoc'd into the corn jars also from the initial inoc

#9 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:09 PM

maybe it was too starchy but the white corn which is lower on starch was rinsed very well for quite a while by hand with hot water then cold, most of the kernels besides maybe 5 per jar where cracked open from the PC in the jars

#10 (nilla)

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:10 PM

Well all i can say is,if your getting contams in the corn but not the brf (saying they were done proper) ,i would say somethings faulty bout your corn jars structure or your method of injecting them to cause contam.

#11 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:13 PM

Also if its to wet inside it will start then halt like you have described.
Or if its released to much starch due to cracked kernals"which a presoak can help to avoid"

it shouldnt of been very starchy... the white corn was rinsed very very well to get as much as possible off which there didnt seem to have much even after hydration in the water, some kernals are cracked open but its very few and the myc. seems to be trying to make its way to the cracked kernals almost.. Not sure, not enough growth showing to say much about it, just kind of stalling for awhile..

#12 malefacter

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:14 PM

what kind of filter setup did you use was it just a pice of tyvek under the ring a dubble disk on the lid etc do you have any pics? did the filter get wet?

how long did you leave the jars in the pc after you turnd off the heat

was there water inside the jar? more than a tbs?

was the lc contamed or the spores?

dose your pc go to 15 psi?

how did you inoculate thrugh the filter, injection ports etc?

#13 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:16 PM

use popcorn this way:
hydrate it in the PC for 2 hours by PCing it under an inch of water
then strain it
then towel dry it by putting the popcorn on a towel on the floor for an hour or so
then in your jars put about an inch of hydrated (not wet) coco coir then fill it up w popcorn (this helps a lot against wetspot)
PC the jars for 1 hour
then shake it after PC
let it cool, shake it well again. let the coir go all around the jar
then shake one last time before inoculation

#14 LordSoth

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:27 PM

use popcorn this way:
hydrate it in the PC for 2 hours by PCing it under an inch of water
then strain it
then towel dry it by putting the popcorn on a towel on the floor for an hour or so
then in your jars put about an inch of hydrated (not wet) coco coir then fill it up w popcorn (this helps a lot against wetspot)
PC the jars for 1 hour
then shake it after PC
let it cool, shake it well again. let the coir go all around the jar
then shake one last time before inoculation

very similar to that cept the hydration time in the pc wasnt 2 hours, and i didnt use anything for wetspots because the water content in the jars after shaking them from the last pc gets them equaled out enough that water isnt an issue really.. but i might put some coir into the next batch just to do everything possible for it to work. The spores and the LC are both non-contamed, my pc goes up to 15psi and i like to keep it there. the jars didnt stay in the pc'er more than 10 minutes after it was done, allowed to cool in a sterile box, inc through the tyvek filter that was placed over the metal lid, the injection site had tape over it that went through the pc so it should of been just fine, for the 3 jars that did get trich i think it might of happened somehow when injected them because i did the 2 brf cakes, then the popcorn ones, alc + flame where used every jar switch, thank you everyone thats posted suggestions and ideas for solutions and extra steps that i should really add for extra-help for corn to work in my environment, brf rocks but corn is really cheap and easy for me to get compared to other grains and if its not too much of an hassle i'd like to keep using corn, during the winter when all of the air in the house is filtered with HEPA filters all over the house corn seems to work just fine so i'm sure theres many things involved in why corn isnt working for me, again, i thank everyone whos posted aiding me in any way :)

#15 malefacter

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:21 PM

i think its your filter setup try this I think its the best setup for grains in jars

http://mycotopia.net...-lid-setup.html

out of 8 jars 1 contamed and it was my fault also i think 30 min in the pc is plenty for hydration

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#16 (nilla)

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:26 PM

Im not sure why anyone uses filters anyway,IMO
I use vacutainer seals.
They work great,and no contams can get in.
I know lots believe air transfer is what is needed,never been a prob for me.
And if it was i just loosen the lid a tad.

#17 wayback

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 05:01 AM

Over time I've found that popcorn is far too labor intensive for the results. Towel drying and other measures consume a lot of time, and while bird seed or rye does involve soaking processes, I've obtained much greater results.

Also, for the time invested, I still like BRf. It works when done under fairly setile conditions, and can be spawned to worm castings and staw quite well.

#18 Hippie3

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 07:04 AM

y'all need to get with the program,
we've been telling folks for the last couple years-
all the moisture problems of pcorn are easily solved just by mixing it with another substrate,
i mix pcorn with brf 50/50 in my MYCRO bags
and folks love them,
and i don't waste a bunch of time
soaking draining or towel drying.
i just boil the pcorn,
strain off in a colander
then use .
it also goes well mixed with wbs -
the seed sizes complement each other nicely.

cf. http://mycotopia.net...0504-post8.html




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