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My first - WBS, Bulk, My own spores, and HOPEFULLY LC. Give me advice, thx.

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#1 darknezz7



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Posted 24 September 2007 - 03:00 PM

I've been doing brf cakes, dunking, rolling in verm, and fruiting in a perilite tub for allmost a year now... I tried popcorn once like half a year back, didn't work, I blammed it on not havning a PC but I think it was cause I was using water proof bandaids that said they breath but didn't. I usually bought my spores but then I would "clone" a dozen cakes to another dozen.(Once a cake is fully colinized I squirt a syringe of sterile water in it then suck it back up, don't know if theres a word for that.) This allways worked great for me, I've never had contams with brf before with just boiling. I was never able to expand my growing becuase I lived with my gf's parents... But now I have my own house, with land, AND BEST OF ALL! Theres a cow wandering several big fields on the other side of my backyard fence, sweet. I also never had a PC until now, I GOT A HUGE ONE FOR $12! From St. Vincents, It didn't even need a new gauge.

A month ago or so I made 2 spore prints on paper note card, and one in a 1/2 pint jar, B+ strain. (Which is my new favorite, it seems to grow much faster and stronger then what I've had before plus everyone I give em to says there very potent). I used the half pint jar of spore water to noc a dozen brf 1/2 pints, they all worked great. A week later, after I knew my sprores would work, I noced up a dozen brf 1pint jars using syringes from the spore water jar i made a week ago. THESE DIDN'T WORK, Actually after like 20 days 1 jar started to grow, which I have in my warm room that I didn't use before, the jar has trippled in growth in the last week. So my problem was either it was getting to cold in my other room to germinate, or I think the spores were stuck to the side of the syringe and only a few jars got some?

Anyway, one week ago I got my PC and made up a dozen 1pint WBS cakes, using "Easy "Soak & Simmer" Wild Birdseed Prep by FooManShroom" I then went into my cold "clean" room bombed with Oust and bleach mist, opened my glove box and threw in my spore print on note card, my PCed 1/2 pint spore jar full water, syringes, and so on. After seeing how to do spore prints in little baggies on foil I will NEVER do it like this again... So I got my spore jar and filled up a bunch of syringes and inoculated 9(what fits in my PC) WBS pints with 2ccs, kept in a rubbermaid in an 80F room. I also did 2 LC's in quart jars, I used 288ml of water to 12g of Karo Light with Vanilla. Does that sound good?? I'm not using any AE, I shook them up good with an airport after PCing, theres only like a 1/4 of the quart jar full of water, thats enough air for it to grow right? Do they absolutely have to have FAE?

I WAS SO EXCITED TODAY! I've been checking them everyday for a week and nothings been going on, BUT TODAY massive growth overnight! It's allover the bottom with patches all around the sides. I will post pics tomorrow. In my LC's I see white fuzz around the clumps of spores. (my spores a clumpy cause of scraping them of paper... never again...) Is this what its soposed to do or is it growing slime around the spores?

Basically I wrote all this up to display my acomplishments (though nothing special) and to get advice on where to go next as far as casing these WBS jars. Right now plan is follow "Lazlo's Poo/Coir/Coffee cased bulk substrate spawned by grains tek."for the most part. If your familiar with this method, Wouldn't it be better to use more poo and less coir for the substrate? Or mabey something compleatly different?

I would like some input on whats best for WBS spawn, add verm in spawn or layer on bottom?, casing(60/40 Verm/Coir?), best for growing in a rubbermaid tub?, a layer of spawn on top of the WBS then casing?

I hope some of you take the time to read my rambling. Any advice to help me finally get some "BIG" grows will be greatly appreciated.

#2 darknezz7



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Posted 25 September 2007 - 08:52 PM

Is it cause im the only red shroom and everyone else is gold? huh, is it? Or is it because of my rambling... I just wanted to show my progress of how far I've come and how I did things... Sorry.
I'll re ask my MAIN questions from above...

1. My LC has whitish stuff growing around the "Clumps" of spores.... Is that what its soposed to do? I used 288ml distilled water with 12g karo light w/vanilla in a quart jar. No air exchange, airported and shook while inoculating.

-Is that an ok LC mix?
-Do I absolutely need AE? Should I just stick an airport in em?

2. I have 2dozen WBS cakes, whats best to spawn to? I'll be using 22-28qt plastic tubs.

-Right now im going with "Lazlo's Poo/Coir/Coffee cased bulk substrate spawned by grains tek." as far as the technique, but isnt there a better spawn mix than what he says? "2 cups manure, 1/2 coir brick, 1 pot coffee grounds"?

-I'll definitally use poo, and coffee grounds(soaked in coffe), mabey straw? Please give me some advice on amounts to use and whats good for my situation.

Thanks to whoever, if anyone, replies.

#3 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 08:58 PM

I would recommend spawning to something like 70/30 hpoo/coir.. i'd skip the coffee imo..
if you have straw it would be nice to put that in also.. so 50% hpoo, 20% straw, 30% coir.. throw in some worm castings also if you have! like 5-10%
put it all in a pillow case and submerge it in a tub of water with the temp of 170C for two hours at least.. i leave it in the water overnight.. and squeeze it the next day to field capacity.. then spawn it..

that mix has given me very nice flushes and very big shrooms because i made the substrate 5inches thick lol but i like that mix personally..

good luck with the LC and the grain! :)
keep us posted..
what strain are you working with?
first time bulk?

also, you can case your bulk substrate once its fully colonized with 70% verm and 30% coir..

edit: also i would recommend you put a little hydrated coir or dry verm in with your grain in the jar to help control moisture.. shake it well after PC, and shake it well again once its cool to remove the moisture around the jar.. and shake well before inoculating..
then shake it one last time once it is 30% colonized.. then just wait for it to be fully colonized..

#4 darknezz7



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Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:25 PM

It's B+, and yeah first time bulk.(as said in thread title everything is.)

Thanks for the advice, that sounds like good spawn. Sure no coffee? Some people swear by it, does it contaim easier? I don't want to ruin the whole mess.
I thought about adding verm in my jars... After I PCed, next time.

I'm gonna take some pictures of the LC as soon as somethings big enough to see, and pics of the jars tonight.

#5 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 05:59 AM

coffee can be tricky and can give you lots and lots of trich.. so its not really worth it imo..
after you PC the grain, dont open it and put verm in.. if thats what you mean.. if you want to put verm in it.. put it before PC..

#6 darknezz7



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Posted 26 September 2007 - 02:04 PM

k, guess I wont use coffee. lol I wouldnt open the jars after I PC them, thats why I said "next time" plus I think I overfilled my wbs jars anyway. Hers some pics of my jars, how they looking?

My LC Hasnt changed any... Still just a blob of fuzz around the clumps of spores. This is my fourth time trying LC's and they NEVER work for me. I wish someone could tell me why...

I also have some casing I would like some advice on. What I did was put down a thin layer of verm, 1/2in of 66/33 verm/coir then set 1/2pint brf cakes cut in half on top of that, let that sit for 2 days, put a 1/2 casing layer on top and let that sit for 4 days in dark warm place. Then took them out and put some more casing mix over the spots where myc poked through. The next day I took them out of the warm dark room and put them in a perilite chamber with 7 polyfil holes and a small computer fan at the top, and their getting natural light and fresh air everyday. It's been a week and not much has changed with them. Seems like everyone else's casing grow real thick myc that completely covers the top layer, mine arnt doing that. Advice please! I'll get some pics as soon as my camera batteries charge.


#7 darknezz7



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Posted 27 September 2007 - 12:31 AM

so heres my 4 casings as described above, how they looking? Advice please, thanks.

on a side note... hash oil anyone?:rasta:
oh what a quart jar of shit leaves and 16oz of rubbing alcohol can do :eusa_clap... I've been smoking shake joints for three days and for some reason just thought of this tonight...(Just thought I'd share, I know its not very clean but better than nothing. This is also the most I've gotten from this method, normally I do bho but butanes so fing expensive, so wohoo for me)

"I'am so high right now, I have no idea what's going on." :rasta::weedpoke::rasta:

#8 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 01:01 AM

your grain jars are looking good.. although it looks as if its going to be difficult to shake that? i dont see any extra space for it to be shaken.. but the growth all around looks good :thumbup:

hmm.. about your casing.. i think it would be better if you went with spawning or layering..
with spawning - you crumble your cakes and mix it well with pasteurized substrate (coir/verm/poo/straw/etc) then let it fully colonize in the dark (7-14days) then you case it with a thin layer of 70verm/30coir.. then leave that in the dark for 3 days.. then bring it out for fruiting..
for layering - you can crumble your cakes.. and in the tub.. put a layer of substrate.. then a layer of crumbled cakes.. then a layer of substrate.. until you run out of cakes.. then let it fully colonize again in the dark.. then case.. then fruit..

spawning by crumbling and mixing is faster and better than layering though imo..

but i still think you will see some fruits soon.. normally takes 7-10 days to see knots then pins once it has been exposed to light.. make sure the RH is up as well..

good luck :)

#9 Dexter


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Posted 27 September 2007 - 03:36 AM

Hey darknezz7, I'm doing a bulk grow for the first time also(u can check my progress in my post). I made a almost fatal error in my 1st, i used "mushroom compost". I now now the reasons not to use that, but my grow is doing well. I had a small problem to start with in my fruiting chamber. I thought that my humidity was high enough until i bought a humitity guage, at pet co, for reptiles and found that my FC was only at 65% rh. The problem seem to be that too much air was escaping around the lid, so I got some bathtub tape and lined the inside of the lid where it seals w/ the tape. My rh is 95% now and my grow is doing great. I did one pan of WBS and another of popcorn and my popcorn is three times as far along as the WBS, but both are pinning evenly across the pans.

#10 golly



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Posted 27 September 2007 - 07:36 AM

Hey Darknezz.:)..Your half cakes should be fine, just keep everything moist and things should start to happen soon...Did u cut the cakes length-wise or cross-wise..?
I have seen really good stuff with half cakes cut length-wise then put back in their jars filled with water , for a 12 hour dunk first..
Still, you should be on track..I wouldn't start worrying till day 14 from birthing..Gluk

#11 darknezz7



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Posted 27 September 2007 - 11:54 PM

thanks for the help, I'm definitely going to spawn mix my next batch. Yeah, I need to get a humidity gauge as well, does drips on the walls not necessarily over 90% humidity?

the cakes were cut horizontally, crosswise. I remembered reading to cut them vertically, after I did it.

I have another question, should I go buy a bag of pre-composted steer manure at nursery, or go get old cow patties in the field next door? I was thinking cow paties would be better, ones that have the white stuff in it, (I can also get hpoo, like that, from my sisters farm but not for awhile til I go up that way)

o btw I still havnt gotten an answer whether LC's absolutely need AE if there only a 1/3 full. And if so would using foam earplugs be good, do they work good for everything like wbs and stuff too?

Right now I'am just using some polyfil then 2 coffee filters for my jars, no tyvek evr for me. Oh and there is the metal band width of room at the top.

thanks for helping me out

#12 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 06:25 PM

I don't use FAE for my LC's and they are viable for months and months

cow patties from the field would be better than store bought IMO.

Great Job !!!

You have undeniable intensity in your writing

I love the hash oil

You'll be swimmin in a sea of shrooms sooner than later, take care, be safe, be obsevant


#13 darknezz7



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Posted 29 September 2007 - 08:42 PM

Thanks for the advice.

I guess I will go get cow patties then.

My LC's have some white fuzzy clumps in them... After 10 days. I don't think thats right. I am going to use a potato water and karo mix next and use mycelium tissue from a pf brf jar in a syringe with a little h2o2. I guess I'll try once more with no AE.

#14 Guest_vinz_*

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 10:39 PM

try the > airport tek < for your LC lids

#15 orchid


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Posted 29 September 2007 - 11:03 PM

good luck! i tried wbs about eight months ago and all succumb to wet spots. drat. smelled of apples and everything. i shookem too much. my gfoagf is trying the tried and true brf cakes with sa's right now... we'll see how those turn out. i think you were wise to keep your opperation small for about a year no matter where you were living. hopefully your wisdom will pay off with some great gains here. if you fail try again... but my fingers are crossed that you get a "faht" first second and third flush!

#16 darknezz7



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Posted 30 September 2007 - 03:41 PM

I put airport syringes in em this morning, I"ll see how that helps them. Heres the only pic out of 8 I took that you could see anything... Stupid kodak easyshare crap. My wbs is looking good, if anything I think they look to dry.
Well I'm off to Mart's and Co's to spend my paycheck. I'm gonna make a heat bomb when I get home so I'll go ahead and post a pic of that when I'm done. I also have another dozen wbs quart jars to pc tonight, oh so much to do. :rasta:
Hey I have a quick question, what's everyones opinion on if I should give it a quick simmer before PCing. It's gonna be soaked for like 26 hours by the time I get to it later. I've seen Hip, and others say it doesn't need simmered so If noone gets back to this by tonight I'm not going to.
oh yea i ordered a variety pack of "super strain" seeds from highgrade-seedscom im excited about growin! :rasta::weedpoke::rasta:

#17 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:16 PM

you should follow docs tek

the most important part IMO is the post soak simmer, you need to simmer the wbs for about 20 + minutes to get the perfect water content for your wbs. about 3% of the wbs shells should be burst ( when you notice a couple) then give it a real long hot water rinse in a collander or whatever. Let the wbs drip dry.

I put about an inch of verm in the bottom of my wbs quarts to keep from having to let the wbs drip dry foreverl. Stuff like cracked corn is always gonna be sticky and the verm helps with this. It also helps to give your wbs quarts a "fluffy quality that helps get air throughout the grain once you shake the wbs after PCing

So yes simmer before PC virginia.

a simmer isn't absolutely needed according to some, IME it has led to only failure, espec for noobs.

#18 TVCasualty


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Posted 01 October 2007 - 09:04 AM

I think a 26 hour soak is a bit much. 12 works great for me, and minimizes the stinky fermentation.

I always simmer WBS. I also make sure to strain out the black sunflower seeds if they are in the mix.

Also, I highly recommend adding about a gram of gypsum for every quart of WBS. It makes shaking much easier, among other things.

I let them slowly simmer until there is a noticable slime layer appearing on the surface of the water. If you occasionally stir the WBS while cooking, and you pull out the spoon or whatever and it's covered with slime, it's ready (about 20-30 minutes of simmering). Dealing with the slime is the key to bird seed recipes, IMO. I think it's all coming from the cracked corn, so a mix without it might not slime up...

Anyway, this is best done outside, but the bathtub works ok too. I dump the cooked WBS into a plastic milk crate or other box that allows drainage (about 5-6 quarts worth of WBS at a time) lined with window screen, then stir in some dishsoap and blast it with a garden hose or shower, mixing it wround vigorously until you can stick your hand in it and it doesn't get slimy. Takes longer than you'd expect, and when you stick your hand in it be careful- you might find a hot spot... ouch! (hot spots will also still be slimy, btw). Soap really speeds it up, just be sure to rinse it well.

Next I gather up the screen and swing it around really fast to fling off most of the water, then it goes to a bin for mixing in vermiculite and some other stuff, like hydrogel. As soon as the WBS goes in the bin I add a teaspoon or so of medium-grade, dry hydrogel (water crystals) to soak up the extra water (a tablespoon works for ~50 quarts so it goes a long way). After waiting a little while (15-30 minutes) to allow the gel to start sucking up the extra water I add some vermiculite. The advantage of the gel is that the water is still there but bound in the gel for when the myc. needs it later, and it holds a lot more water than vermiculite by itself.

#19 darknezz7



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Posted 02 October 2007 - 12:54 AM

Well hopefully its fine after 26 hours, I did like 20 last time and their going good. Theres no corn in my birdseed, even after simmering it never really gets "slimmy"

Oh and 2 out of 5 jars with ear plugs in them they popped out, so I redid those 2 and left the 3 with earplugs in them. I want to see if they work at all. I don't think I'll be trying them again though.

My LC's have "fluffy white balls" floating around, good yes?

I made a "kick ass", in my opinion, incubater. costed me bout $40 though :eusa_sile

heres pics, i'm also gonna start my grow log soon, both kinds :rasta::headbang::rasta:

#20 scientia


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Posted 02 October 2007 - 08:19 PM

Make sure to break up the balls before they get too dense. It's happened to me on a few occasions. (especially with a nutrient rich LC)

The hydrogel addition is a really good idea...where do you get that at?

On a side note, if you ever get tired of messing with WBS (as I did...too much prep, makes messes really easily, etc), you can get a huge ought bag of popcorn from sams for like 12 bucks. I personally like a 48 hour presoak, boil till they start bursting, strain, then throw them in a bucket and mix worm castings with them to soak up the extra moisture. Pans in particular LOVE them. The one below was shot with pan lc 9/22.

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