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Ayahuasca questions & commentary [merged]

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#221 dukex



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Posted 14 April 2005 - 01:41 PM

"Tell him we miss him and think of him often."


"Check out the winter issue, there is much good information on Tantrik shamanism, and buddhism. Also known as "Bon". Lots of good networking info in this mag for people in the UK."

I have a sub now the first two issues I received where #67,#68, I looked it must be #66 I will have to do some back ordering.


#222 phalanx



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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:23 PM

I heard the entheogen review may be shut down due to lack of submissions and the owners not having enough time to work on it. Else it might be changing to a yearbook format. It would be a pity to see it disappear. Their latest issue is still summer 2004 and both of their books are out of print now.

#223 dukex



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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:19 AM

That is not good... I have never read that one but would like to add it to my list, looks very good.


#224 Son of O'or

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:59 AM

James Arthur is dead, I do not believe it was a suicide. But that is just my opinion...

It is with regret that we announce the loss of James Arthur under circumstances which remain clouded and suspicious. A terse news report, disputed on a number of counts by his associates and family, states he was 'found dead in jail with a sheet around his neck.' His death has been ruled a 'suicide' according to police. No other details were released. He was arrested on charges of alleged 'sexual misconduct' with a minor...charges his associates claim were conveniently made by a recently-terminated 'secretary' who had reportedly been hired to type the manuscript of a new book...and then fired. There is much more to this story and we will present further information as is becomes available. James Arthur made his first appearance on national radio on our program and his extraordinary knowledge of human history and Ethnomycology were truly a marvel. James subsequently became a regular and anticipated special guest every Christmas season and made a fascinating illustrated presentation on how the little red-capped amanita muscaria mushroom has been not only a staple of Christmas cards since the first cards were produced, but has, in fact, been pictured in illustrated history since Roman times. James' visits were always fun and intriguing, and unquestionably opened new doorways through which to reconsider many fundamental aspects of human experience for over two millennia. James Arthur was a unique and gifted researcher and will be missed by many. The work he leaves behind, however, will continue to enlighten and stimulate all those who seek the truth of our history on this troubled planet. -Jeff Rense The following Bio of James by our friend and colleague Jordan Maxwell is well worth reading... By Jordan Maxwell 4-16-5 Having become fascinated with religions of all types at an early age James Arthur hurtled into deep study for 25 years. Having discovered works by such Pioneers (in Ethno-Mycology) as (1) R. Gordon Wasson and (2) John Marco Allegro. James set out on a quest to unravel the mysterious meanings and implications of sacramental ingestion of plants in a religious context. In 1976 R. Gordon Wasson told James, in his opinion, James was the world's leading expert in the field of Ethno-Mycology, as it pertains to Christianity. He also referred to James as his dear friend. This was over 20 years ago and James has never stopped studying since. James devotes his work to his Mentor and friend R. Gordon Wasson and considers Gordon's life's work to be "The roots for the most valuable study of all". Mushrooms/Religion/Ethno-Mycology James Arthur has been a long time Student of Tibetan Buddhism (under the Guidance of Lama Tharchin Rimposhee, Lama Lodro, and many others). James' Tibetan name "DORJE DROLOD" has deep meaning in itself. James is also an ordained Christian Priest. This is not meant to be a condoning of any priesthood or Christian religion but is only mentioned for reference purposes to show an in-depth familiarity (due to extensive study) with Christianity. James advises against joining any priesthood, religion, church or organization that requires a sworn oath or acceptance of a belief system. James exposes faults as well as positive aspects of religion, a necessary step for anyone in the type of position he is in. As a teacher he releases the bonds of religious upbringing and indoctrination; empowering the individual. He considers study of all religions valuable as long as one is careful to discern between fantasy and reality and understand that the only universal law is the "Golden Rule". James is/has been friends, and/or is associated with: R. Gordon Wasson, Terence McKenna, Sasha Shulgin, K. Trout, Dan Russell, Thomas Lyttle, Myron Stolaroff, David Hatcher Childress, William Bramley, Acharya S., Arthur Horn, Richard C. Hoagland, Stan Tennen, Lloyd Pye, Jordan Maxwell, Zechariah Sitchin, Neil Slade, Iona Miller, John Major Jenkins, William Henry, Jason Salzmann, John Allegro, Amado Crowley, David Aurora, Paul Stamets, Wade Davis, Peter Furst, Jace Callaway, Jochen Gartz, Giorgio Samorini, Christopher Dunn, Alan Alford, Karena Bryan, Abd el' Hakim Awayan, Stephen Mehler, Alan Alford, Ananda, Jack Barranger, Robert Eisenmann, John Allen, Paul Kroeger, Dale Pendell, Ann Shulgin, Andrew Weil, Manny Salzmann, Wade Davis, Bo Holmstedt, Gary Lincoff, Dennis McKenna, Taylor Lockwood and many others who have helped him to piece together the fabric of one of the most fascinating quilts of understanding. The quest for the meaning of life. It is highly recommended that you further research the names on this list. James has lectured at conferences, given instruction, and advised in the fields of Ethno-Mycology, Shamanism, Religious Theology (Ancient and Modern Religions), Psychology, and Soul Healing in The United States and abroad for the last 19 years. A long time member of the M.S.S.F., N.A.M.A., An Ordained Priest, and qualified reader of the Tibetan Book Of The Dead, he has appeared on Radio talk shows such as Coast To Coast AM, "The Heart of The Matter" a "Perceptions Magazine" Radio show with Host Ivie West, "Hilly Rose" (The Master of Talk Radio), "Strange Universe" with host Sean David Morton, Santa Cruz based radio show "The Night Hawk" with host Dave Allen, The Jeff Rense Program, "The Laura Lee Show" with host Laura Lee, "The Lou Epton Show" with host Lou Epton, "The Jack Stockwell Show" with host Jack Stockwell, "The X-Zone" with host Rob McConnell, KPFK's "Roy of Hollywood" with hosts Jordan Maxwell and Eben Rey, various programs broadcast world-wide on WWCR (World Wide Christian Radio), "The Mythos Freethought Radio" with Host Wade Mythos, "Parascience and Beyond" with host Uri Geller. Co-guest appearances with Jordan Maxwell, and John Rapoport discussing Secret Societies and Initiatory Rites are the types of programs that have sparked considerable thought. Special appearances at the Mycological Society of San Francisco's (M.S.S.F.) 30th anniversary fungus fair, The Consciousness Technologies Conference in Sisters, Oregon, The Breitenbush Mushroom Festival (Oregon) and the Ancient Wisdom Conference in Gizeh, Egypt are examples of the various live speaking appearances in the last few years. James has theories that have been making many knowledgeable people stand up and listen. He pulls no punches when it comes to explaining the origins of and establishment of religions and the usage of plants as spiritual tools throughout human history. Controversial and stunning, mind blowing and thought provoking he is a dynamic speaker that interjects some great humor into otherwise devastatingly serious topics. As he puts it and I wholeheartedly agree: "The time has come for this knowledge to be revealed into plain sight. It is no longer the property of those few elite to keep hidden from the general population. The sleepers must awaken" --James Arthur 1998 I invite you to read very closely a message of profound importance in our times. Jordan Maxwell - 1998 From Scott Brown
An email to Lloyd Pye...

I suppose you might have already received this news, but it's very sad. I've more than once been to his web site and spent hours there; in fact, he's the one who first made me aware of the work of Gordon Wasson and Carl Ruck, whose books I regularly (as recently as yesterday) cite for my interpretations of Plato and Nietzsche (Birth of Tragedy; i.e., the style and potency of the intoxicants involved in the development of ancient tragedy (a word that means "goat song," in reference to the role of the Satyrs and the choric origin of tragedy, which Nietzsche says the ancients tell us was in origin chorus and nothing but chorus--which I've of course also confirmed from more standard sources). I even write the titles of Wasson and Ruck on the board for those students interested in following it up.
James Arthur is entirely responsible for my becoming aware of this work, which is actually something I've learned about since the time you and I have corresponding. From his site, I gathered he wasn't near the accomplished writer that I presume Mckenna was (not able to afford his books) from the fact that transcripts of his speech, as well as what I heard live of him on Art Bell on more than one occasion; but talk about lucid insights: James Arthur conveyed avenues of the relevance of hallucinogens to philosophy in ways that made it possible, even necessary, to incorporate this work directly into my lectures even to introductory philosophy students."

#225 Son of O'or

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:02 AM

James Arthur is dead. I do not believe it was a suicide, but that just my opinion.

Do some digging on him.

#226 Son of O'or

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:07 AM

"I have a sub now the first two issues I received where #67,#68, I looked it must be #66 I will have to do some back ordering."

LOL! I was speaking of the wrong mag. There is another called "Sacred Hoop" from the UK that you need to get also. go here:

The latest issues, the spring issue, is all about the vine.

#227 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:47 AM

Where do I find these publications?

#228 dukex



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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:46 PM

The Shamans Drum subscription I had to order through Amazon.
4 issues a year $20
4 issues a year $25
4 issues a year $39


#229 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 08:43 AM

thanks... :D

#230 xochipilli2012



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Posted 19 April 2005 - 10:11 PM

tell roo that I really enjoyed all his posts here,and wish him luck on his project.

and thanks for the shamans drum heads up guys I have #56 from 2000 and thought they went out of print.gotta catch up on some also.

#231 Son of O'or

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 12:48 AM

As I "know" Roo, I have met other people who "know" other people here. It has been quite interesting and sort of strange.

I am sure that society in general thinks most of us are very abnormal people. From what I have discovered this is not the case at all. As it turns out most are quite extraordinary. Most are successfull, have families, lives etc.

LOL! Ever meet someone and KNOW they have used entheogens in the past? There is just a differant "energy" about them, this is hard to explain.

"Roo", from what I understand, is trying to "teach" people that the use of entheogens IS a valid "spiritual path". Perhaps "a path of self discovery" would be a better choice of words. He had the good fortune winning a debate recently with someone who considers the use of entheogens to be a "crutch" of sorts or an easy, false path. 5 dried grams convinced this person otherwise... I would consider the use of entheogens, as a part of ones spiritual development to be just as valid as any "traditional" method. It is in fact a VERY difficult path to walk, there is nothing easy about it. These things are but a small part of any spiritual path, be it based on Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, Shamanism, Jung, Science etc.

From my experiance most people tend to over indulge in their use of entheogens at first, myself included. Over the years one moderates their use of these things. Some people stop using them all together, and other return to them once or twice a year. QUALITY means more than quantity. One trip can mean more than 10000. It does not matter if it is a good or a bad one. Some people either become jaded by the experiance, some get burned. Untill recently people had no where to turn for advise on these things. Now we have places like Mycotopia, etc. The past 10 to 15 years have been a very productive period as far as entheogens go. I would say more so than any other time during the past 100 years. The NAC can now legaly use Peyote, the Santo Daime can use Ayahuasca. Things are changing for the better. I do not believe we should involve ourselves in politics like we did during the 1960's. We need a movement, but not one based on these things. I honetly think we need to integrate the use of these things into society, we need to add them to what already exists, rather than seek to destroy society. That is a battle we cannot win. I think Huxley's approach of changing society from the inside out to be the best approach to this. It seems to be a waste of time to try to force our way into society as an "alien" force. I think it better that we act as viral DNA and infect the host, using the institutions that exist within our society and culture. Its already going on...

For me at least I do not think making these things legal overnight will do anyone any good. Decriminalization would be the way to go. I would consider creating places people can go to use these things, in a proper set and setting to be a great first step. I think there should be some sort of "training" involved in using these things. Perhaps this will not be needed after these things become integrated into our culture, but there is much fear involved when people have their first taste of these things. There is nothing in our culture that can prepare us for such things. We do not have "Shamans" or "psychologists", as our culture likes to call them, we can go to for guidence or help in these matters.

I think such things are on the way within the next 20 years or so. I certainly do not expect such things to create a utopia. But it may change our species for the better if more of us realize we are more than what lay behind our eyes and between our ears. That we are in fact all more than "me". That we are all the indestructable "I".

I am not a Christian, but I have found many Christians who have found a deeper understanding of the message of Christianity through entheogens. The same goes for Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc. These faiths have a long tradition of entheogen usage, albeit in the shadows. Most of these faiths speak of a coming change, they call it the "Kingdome of Heaven" etc. I think that this revolves around a change in the way we see ourselves in relation to the universe and each other. I do not mean this in a "new age" sort of way. I am speaking of the actual physical universe. Its like the Zen koan, "Who is the master who makes the grass green?". Maybe this "master" could be considered the EGO, in our present age, and the indestructable "I" in the future "kingdome" of these religions. It may seem strange, but I think entheogens have almost already played their part in this. They have touched the lives of too many people for them to not have an effect on our culture, language, etc.

LOL! I am rambeling, but I have seen people giving up hope on this subject. The seeds have already been planted and they are growing. They have been planted deep in our society and I would not worry about them being pulled up. I would think it better that we, as individuals, place ourselves as deeply as we can within our society and culture. We should strive to place ourselves in high positions. Even if this high position is just working like a dog, raising a family, paying bills etc. Again, we change it by adding ourselves to it. If we stay on the fringes as a "counterculture" we will acomplish nothing. We will stagnate and go nowhere. Better to use stealth, move inside of the "organism" and expand, untill we asimalate it. This path is actualy much safer than living on the fringes. Those that stand out get asimalated into society, be it through the legal system, or just plain frustration. Those that learn to play the game and still maintain their true self, always win.

LOL! Later people.....

#232 ridder


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Posted 24 April 2005 - 02:59 AM

hello brother :)

#233 Hippie3



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Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:37 AM

We need a movement, but not one based on these things. I honetly think we need to integrate the use of these things into society, we need to add them to what already exists, rather than seek to destroy society. That is a battle we cannot win. I think Huxley's approach of changing society from the inside out to be the best approach to this. It seems to be a waste of time to try to force our way into society as an "alien" force. I think it better that we act as viral DNA and infect the host, using the institutions that exist within our society and culture. Its already going on...

right here
right now.

#234 dukex



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Posted 24 April 2005 - 07:52 AM

Son of O'or right on


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Posted 31 May 2005 - 08:55 PM

I created a brew (250g Chacruna, 250g Caapi ground into powder). I simmered the herbs with mildly acid water (5 tbsp vinegar/5 litres water) for approximately two hours. Filtered off the herbs and resimmered them with the same aqueous mixture. Filtered out the herbs again, and reduced the two extractions down to approximately 1 litre of brew.

Over approximately 1.5-2 hours, I ingested approximately 3/5 of the mixture (corresponding to about 150g of each herb) and my girlfriend the remainder. Our intent was purging and visions, and I did not expect to ingest the entire quantity, but nothing was occurring so we kept drinking slowly to see if we could elicit a response. But no nausea, nothing. Only diarrhea, not even any oral purging. I was surprised, and am wondering what might have gone wrong, not having a lot of experience with these herbs.

Can anyone with experience offer any suggestions?

#236 waylitjim


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Posted 31 May 2005 - 09:18 PM

I am wondering what might have gone wrong, not having a lot of experience with these herbs.

Did you buy from a reputable vendor and why did you use so much?
If you're new to Aya, 50 grams of each is PLENTY. You really don't need to use the quantity you used.
Try drinking the brew over half an hour rather than 2 hrs.
Reduce down to 50-100 ml per person, this helps make that possible.
Brew for at least 3 hrs each extraction, do 3 extractions.
You don't need to powder the vine, just break it into small thin pieces.
Consider buying from Maya, a really good supplier.
Also, be patient, it often takes a few brews to get one right.
Be safe, have fun.

#237 Hippie3



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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:16 AM

either the material wasn't powdered/shredded enough
or the brew time was too brief to get the magic.
did you use distilled water ?

#238 phalanx



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Posted 03 June 2005 - 05:55 PM

Looking at purely maoi effects, the vine was very weak, it seems. 150g average potency caapi should have had you in a heap on its own. The dose was also quite dilute and drunk over a long time which would have blunted the effects.

#239 phalanx



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Posted 25 October 2005 - 02:05 PM

I prefer to adopt ritual elements only when I see they have definite practical value or fit in with my own beliefs. I don't believe in doing things just for the sake of it.

Ritual is simply a way of doing things. It may or may not involve spiritual beliefs.

#240 rocketman



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Posted 28 October 2005 - 09:23 PM

Neuro-Alchemy: Beta-Carbolines as Potentiating Agents
by J.B. Fleming

"I began to get high-and then the whole fucking Cosmos broke loose around me" —Allen Ginsberg

During the nineteen twenties, ethnographers returning from the Amazon jungle gave strange accounts of tribal shamans who used a telepathy-increasing plant drug to direct the course of their societies. The drug was a hallucinogenic drink which had several different native names including Ayahuasca, Yage, Caapi, and Natema. It was brewed from a species of woody vine called Banisteriopsis along with various admixtures which commonly included the leaves of Banisteriopsis rusbyana, Psychotria viridis, and Brugmansia.

Native users of ayahuasca were reported to experience collective hallucinations of jaguars, snakes, and jeweled birds. These visions were often accompanied by contact with dead ancestors, the ability to see future events, and telepathic communication among tribal members. Secondary effects included heightened sexual responses, vomiting and diarrhea. Ayahuasca's purgative effects also made it useful as a general medicine to stimulate health and fight diseases.

Harmine Toxicologists were fascinated by the drug and soon extracted the active compound from the Banisteriopsis vine, naming it Telepathine. However, in the nineteen thirties, research interest in ethnopharmacology faded and the matter was left to rest. The case on ayahuasca was reopened in 1957 when researchers discovered that Telepathine was actually Harmine, one of several compounds from the beta-carboline family of hallucinogens. Secondary alkaloids called Harmaline and Tetrahydroharmine were also identified.

The beta-carbolines were first isolated in 1841 from the seeds of Peganum harmala, a small, bushy herb known as Syrian Rue which grows along the Mediterranean and throughout Central Asia. It is also reported to have escaped cultivation and can now be found throughout the American southwest. Middle Eastern people have long used Syrian Rue as a folk medicine and for the unique red dye in Turkish and Persian rugs. Egyptians employed the seeds as an aphrodisiac and the plant has been considered as a possible (although unlikely) candidate for the mysterious Soma described in the Rig-Veda. Beta-carbolines have since been identified in several more plants including Passionflower (Passiflora incarnata), Tobacco (Nicotiana rustica), and even within the human pineal gland.

The beta-carbolines are members of the indole family of alkaloids which includes the highly illegal drugs LSD, Psilocybin, DMT, Bufotenin, and Ibogaine. Interestingly, the beta-carbolines have never been scheduled as illegal substances. All of the indoles possess a structural similarity to the neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine. However, the beta-carbolines have a unique quality called MAO inhibition that sets them apart from other psychedelics.

Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is an enzyme produced in the human body which serves several regulatory functions. Within the nerve terminals of norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin neurons MAO acts to modulate the amount of neurotransmitter present. MAO bonds with the transmitters and deactivates them preventing the build up of excessive neurotransmitters at the nerve synapses. MAO is also responsible for deactivating many of the toxins that are present in the foods that we eat. Tyramine is an example of a toxin found in many common foods including aged cheese, red wine, pickled herring, figs, and yeast. Without the presence of MAO to inactivate it the consumption of tyramine would be followed by a severe, and possibly life-threatening increase in blood pressure.

In addition to the beta-carbolines psychoactive effects they are also powerful, short-term, MAO inhibitors. For the six to eight hours that the beta-carboline trip lasts MAO activity is suppressed, allowing serotonin to build up at the neuron synapses. This action may be responsible for some of their mental effects. It also means that the body is vulnerable to any toxins that might be consumed.

The South-American indians learned to take advantage of this condition by adding DMT containing plants to the ayahuasca mixture. Normally DMT is inactive when taken orally. Up to a gram of this powerful psychedelic can be consumed with no noticeable effect. However, when combined with beta-carbolines, DMT is absorbed through the stomach and its normally short action is extended for several hours. Although the principles of MAO inhibition were not described by Western science until the nineteen fifties the indians have exploited it for hundreds of years.
Western Experiments with Beta-Carbolines
In the 1960s Chilean psychiatrist Claudio Naranjo carried out a series of experiments using pure harmaline taken intravenously. He reported its effect in his book The Healing Journey as producing vivid mental imagery which took the form of dreamlike sequences accompanied by physical sedation and nausea. His subjects, all drawn from an urban background, often described the same jungle imagery of snakes, vines, jaguars and birds that native ayahuasca users reported. Other researchers since Naranjo have concluded that the beta-carbolines when taken orally do not produce a psychedelic state except at near toxic doses. Instead they seem to create a hazy, dreamy mental state along with an uncomfortable lethargic condition closer in effect to tranquilizers than psychedelics.

It appears that the real value of the beta-carbolines lies not in their psychoactive effects but in their ability to potentiate other psychedelic substances. Over the years there have been numerous accounts of this potentiating quality from underground sources. In Terence and Dennis McKenna's book The Invisible Landscape and its companion book True Hallucinations by Terence McKenna the effects of a Banisteriopsis and Psilocybe cubensis combination are described. In a series of events that culminated in what they called "The Experiment at La Chorrera" the brothers drank an infusion of boiled Banisteriopsis vine and consumed Psilocybe mushrooms supplemented by smoking dried shavings of Banisteriopsis. What resulted was a spectacular, month long experience of an extremely bizarre nature best left up to the McKenna's to recount.

Another set of experiments using beta-carbolines to synergize DMT was carried out by "Gracie and Zarkov". Their collection of samizdat reports titled Notes from the Underground detail their use of beta-carbolines to prolong and intensify the effects of synthetic DMT, Psilocybin and LSD. Their procedure was to extract beta-carbolines from Banisteriopsis vines, Passionflower, and Syrian Rue seeds. After drying the extracts were smoked and followed by DMT or other indole psychedelics. The effects of the beta-carboline extracts when taken by themselves are described as "...not particularly psychedelic or hallucinogenic. One feels calm. ...At higher doses, dizziness and nausea sets in with very little increase in the high. Closed eye imagery is at best hypnagogic."

Jim DeKorne in his book Psychedelic Shamanism also looks into the potentiating action of beta-carbolines. Working with "Mushroom Ayahuasca", a combination of Syrian Rue extract with Psilocybe cubensis, DeKorne describes its effects as; "This is in no way a 'recreational' compound... One is quite simply 'flattened' by the mixture. Like most authentic ayahuasca experiences, some gastrointestinal upset is par for the course, but by then one's consciousness is so profoundly transformed, that nausea and vomiting are somehow beside the point."

There is a possibility that ayahuasca "analogues" can be created using plants found in North America. The goal is to render the DMT found in certain plants orally active by combining them with threshold doses of short-term MAO inhibitors such as the beta-carbolines. Jonathan Ott provides a wealth of information on experimental ayahuasca mixtures in his books Pharmacotheon and Ayahuasca Analogues. Ott's detailed experiments using harmine extracted from Syrian Rue seeds and DMT clearly show that DMT can be rendered orally active when combined with low doses of beta-carbolines. However, a suitable source for pure DMT is problematic. Much research must still be done in this area.

Given time, underground researchers will find an easily obtained and legal plant which contains DMT. This will enable home users to create what Dennis McKenna calls Ayahuasca borealis, the North American equivalent of the legendary Amazonian ayahuasca brew. Once this technique is perfected it will possible for anyone to explore the psychedelic experience free from the stigma of criminal activity and profiteering drug dealers.
References and Suggested Reading

1. The Yage Letters by William S. Burroughs & Allen Ginsberg
2. Psychedelic Shamanism by Jim DeKorne
3. Hallucinogens by Marlene Dobkin De Rios
4. Hallucinogens and Culture by Peter T. Furst
5. Notes From The Underground by Gracie & Zarkov
6. The Invisible Landscape by Terence and Dennis McKenna
7. True Hallucinations by Terence McKenna
8. The Archaic Revival by Terence McKenna
9. The Healing Journey by Claudio Naranjo
10. Ayahuasca Analogues by Jonathan Ott
11. Pharmacotheon by Jonathan Ott
12. Plants of the Gods by Richard Evans Schultes and Albert Hofmann
13. Psychedelics Encyclopedia by Peter Stafford
14. The Natural Mind by Andrew Weil
15. The Marriage of the Sun and Moon by Andrew Weil

NOTE: The principles of MAO inhibition are extremely complex and potentially dangerous. The information presented in this article is highly speculative. Self experimentation is not recommended.

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