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Re-Using contaminated WBS


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#1 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:27 PM

I made 8 quart jars of WBS and did a G 2 G transfer in a GB.

Once nocced, I noticed the tyvek got caught under the lid on all jars so I loosened the bands and pulled the tyvek out from under the lids, in the open air.

One week later all jars started to show green , prolly from the above mentioned manuver.

Pissed at the lost prep time, I threw all 8 jars back in the PC for an hour and a half.

Once again, I did a G 2 G transfer and as of today all 8 jars are 100% colonized and ready for use.

So, this shows you can prolly save some time and materials by just re PC'ing and re noccing.
:pirate:

#2 fedshtkpndrk

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:32 PM

How were your colonization speeds in comparison to fresh WBS? I read a while back someone doing something similar and experiencing some wicked quick colo speeds :eusa_eh:.

-feds

#3 Hippie3

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:36 PM

maybe.
you won't know for sure until you actually use it,
breaking it up is often when the contam returns.

#4 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:09 PM

The colonization times were average. 8 days to 100% colonization. Very uniform growth they all finished within 12 hours of each other. I will keep a close eye on the project.

I would not be suprised to see trich show up prior to the first flush.

I have worked with an LC before that was so lightly contaminated that it would 100% colonize a jar of WBS. Once the spawn was used, it would flush once and go green, every time. I got rid of that LC and never had the problem again.

However, considering that trich is a part of the life cycle of the mushroom, I'm pleased to have gotten this far so far.

Hippie, respectfully, how many contaminated WBS quart jars re-PC'd, and successfully fruited X multiple times, would you have to see in order to be convinced that this was a reasonable alternative to throwing away the contaminated jars lock stock and barrell ?

:rasta:

peace

fp

#5 Hippie3

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:35 PM

i've been here at Topia almost 7 years,
on the 'net shroom scene a couple years more before,
seen many many people do this,
including myself in my early days.
you aren't the first by far.
nothing you can show me that
i haven't seen before.

sometimes it works out ok,
sometimes not.
no one has 100% results either way.

so it boils down to circumstance,
if you think spending a couple more bucks
on more wbs just isn't worth it
and prefer instead to re-pc ,
it's not my concern.

but as for me
my time is far more valuable than birdseed
so i prefer to dump the bad
instead of possibly waiting 8 days for it to turn green a 2nd time,
or as you say, before the first flush is even in.

as a matter of giving advice to others
i think it would be irresponsible to encourage others to take such risky short-cuts
to save so little
just because you do it.

as a teacher you should be aware
that the people count on you to be right
and not cause them to waste time, effort and materials
even if you aren't the one paying for it.

#6 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:42 PM

Thanks for your thoughtfull post Hippie

I see your point,

Trying not to poke the bear here, how many times would I have to have 100% success in order for you to think that this would be a "reasonable" alternative to throwing away the contaminated seed ?

Now, this success may rely on preping the WBS a certain way ( for instance, adding verm may allow a re-pc easier than a WBS prep tek without because the verm soaks up extra water and makes a better texture or whatever) and not work for all prep methods.

It is clear that IMO best paractices currently dictate disposal and starting from the beginning when dealing with WBS.

I like the idea of possibly finding a way to save myself 24 hours of soak time, and a couple hours of prep time in case of contamination.

my tone was prolly 2 matter of fact in the original post

Humbly,

FP

:headbang:

#7 fahtster

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 03:27 PM

well.. I think it's a reasonable practice under certain circumstances... if you have the spore juice to do it.. the space.. the extra jars.. and the idea that failure is looming at a higher risk than other "safer" methods then it's an alright thing to do.. plus the work is already done and if you get a first flush.. then it's even worth it. (if of course all that other stuff I said applies)... I've done this with cakes just not whole grains.. it worked but then someone pointed out that you may also be transfering toxins to the new myc. from the mold. So maybe if it's just green or something but I've since just made new pf jars.. i don't lose too many anymore tho. ;)

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#8 fedshtkpndrk

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 04:40 PM

I like the idea of possibly finding a way to save myself 24 hours of soak time, and a couple hours of prep time in case of contamination.


http://mycotopia.net...dseed-prep.html :thumbup:

#9 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:26 PM

fed,

thanks much for the link, I have tried the no soak method and never had success. Soaking the WBS is the only way that I've had consistent (semi) results.

Tonight, a halloween ghost took 4 of those re-used PESA quarts and mixed them with

1 brick coir

1 gallon or so of med verm

1 gallon ziploc of pasturized organic dehydrated composted manure

a dash of

flaxseed meal
yellow corn meal
bee pollen
powdered kelp
unsweetened coconut

The spirit moved the mixture to a 45 quart flat plastic container. !Increasing the chance of contamination, I will keep the project sealed all day and only allow it to be fanned and condensation wiped dry twice a day. The spirit thinks that in the spirit of neglect tek, if he can neglect this and still get a positive result it will be worth the effort and may attempt it again.:space:

#10 myco-curious

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:06 AM

The colonization times were average. 8 days to 100% colonization


lol, you got me beat hands down on your average colonization times. My rye berries typically take me 14-21 days to colonize fully before they can be spawned.

I used to think it was because I incubated and fruited in "cold" temps @ 68-77(F) but recently I'm starting to think it's a genetic factor of the isolate (originally a b+ strain) I've been trying to work with. The fruiting is 7-10 days between flushes as well...

But on the upside I'm starting to see very consistent short, dense fruits and I've only had one jar contaminate (black pin mold - completely my fault) out of the 30-40 I've done since I started playing with this isolate.

Now I'm just waiting for this fucker to finally produce a sporeless mutant and I'll have my culture master for life...

#11 Hippie3

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:10 AM

g'luck
:thumbup:

#12 goldenteacher1163

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:51 PM

seems like a good plan!

#13 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 06:47 PM

welp friends and neighbors I got pins

15 days after spawning to poo, 23 days from g 2 g re-innoculation, It looks like I'll go from innoc to harvest in 30 days. Pretty fast sub-strain if I do say so myself. I cased it uisng fahsters casing method of waiting to see the white's of there eyes !!!! err.. I mean waiting for the first pin to form before casing, no sooner no later. I used around a 70/30 verm coir mix with about 6 antiacid pills ground up to make it more basic.

I'm going to have to try this a few more times before I come to any real correlation but results look promising !!!


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#14 bugs

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:04 PM

Pretty damn nice, Floppy.

I've done the re-sterilization thing too, with generally good results. Some bad, too, but more good than bad. As long as it's early in the contam's growth cycle. Given the home front situation it's sometimes 2 weeks between windows of opportunity, and when ya got spawn 110% overdue I'll sometimes take the chance.

My theory is that, unless it's something super aggressive, potentially toxic, or well established, i t's like soaking to sprout the endospores before PCing.

#15 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 08:54 PM

Could a mod move this to grow log section ?

#16 fahtster

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 10:25 PM

lookin good buddy. :) glad the resterilization worked out for ya. :thumbup:

fahtster

#17 hour

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 12:31 AM

Seems like a legit thing to try routinely-

i ofcourse wouldnt expect this to resolve contams related to moisture content ofcourse but re-pcing jars that have contams in them should kill all mycelium. Ontop of that the favorable conditions inside the jar should result in germination of many contaminant spores which'll make the re-sterilization even more purposeful.

i would try this in a heartbeat as I have some nasties around but i'm afraid of the smell lol.

#18 Guest_floppypeter_*

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 09:54 AM

Positive results for this batch four sure !!!!:headbang::loveeyes::headbang:


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#19 fahtster

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:36 AM

AWESOME! great job yo. :) I'm going to link this to my thread about reusing contamed jars... glad you're digging the late casing method also... looks like most of those pins are going to mature just fine. :thumbup: copied to the vaults as well.

fahtster

#20 weed4all

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:53 AM

real nice flush bro, im loving the color of them :teeth:




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