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Spawn help........

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#1 bluehelix



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Posted 18 October 2006 - 11:23 AM

I often wonder what this fascination is with spawn. How many freaking mushrooms are you guys growing? Especially with cubensis, it doesn't make sense unless you are dealing mushrooms and need a hundred pounds fresh a month or something like that. A year and a half ago I colonized about three large spawn bags of fruit out substrate and in less than a month ended up with about 9 pounds fresh Ecuadorians on my FIRST FLUSH! I wrote about that on the Shroomery. I mean I understand if you are growing for a small villiage or something, but I see no point in bothering with spawn if you are growing for less than a dozen people. I think growers just have this mental block that to grow pounds of mushrooms you need to spawn because they know that is how commercial production is done (sometimes but not always). It isn't true unless you are growing low-yielding species. And even then, I have been to a mushroom farms that do not use spawn to grow wood-loving species because it doesn't work as well for them.

#2 Bobcat



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Posted 18 October 2006 - 11:53 AM

Ya gotta look at it like this, blue. there are a lot of variables in play. some people are great spawn makers but don't understand the concept of fruiting chamber and vice versa. Or maybe their area is so contam filled that they get very few actual fruits. Or its cold. Or its hot. Or its whatever. If a person is not getting optimal yields and for whatever reason they can't fix it, then you approve what you can. Other people may just want to feel accomplished or professional. Others may just be very hungry and happen to like to eat mushrooms of all varieties. Lots of people here grow things other than cubensis. Some don't ever want to see a bag of poo in their house and just want lots of grain. Lets just hope our friends are all hobbyists and not dealers.

Whatever. Why ask why.

#3 bluehelix



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Posted 18 October 2006 - 03:12 PM

For edibles, I completely understand spawning because you can eat a pound of thost things in a single dinner! I guess I do see your point even with regard to cubes, though, since I have had many poor flushes that yielded 10% of my best due to all sorts of reasons. I just think if you are trying for cubes, you should keep focused on trying to figure out how to get the good yields in a small space rather than spending all that effort spawning and laying 8-square-foot trays or loads and loads of smaller trays. In the end, though, it all comes to personal choice. I am just trying to present a different way to look at spawning. It works, but it's not the only way to turn big numbers out.

#4 Outer



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Posted 18 October 2006 - 03:33 PM

hmm 1 reason to spawn would be to get a bunch at once so you dont have to have a setup running at all times reducing the chance of getting busted.

#5 Hippie3



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Posted 20 October 2006 - 08:36 PM

moved from sandman's thread
now it can be discussed properly here.

#6 eternalfrost



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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:24 PM

im no expert at it but this is how it seems to me. dont want to bother measuring,mixing, cleaning like 12 little half pint jars, so you do a few big quart jars. cant do PF with such big jars so you end up doing grains. cant do 'cakes' or invitro with grains so you have to do casings anyways. already doing a casing so why not toss in some poo at least and get an easy boost.

just because you use 'bulk' does not mean you grow in bulk if you get my meaning

#7 SharkieJones



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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:34 PM

So Blue what are you suggesting then? If not using spawn then what?

#8 llamabox



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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:38 PM

Here is part of Bluehelix's grow at Shroomery.

"140ml of liquid culture was injected in spawn bags containing a
1:1 mix by volume of WBS/Steve's buffalo manure (Ebay) with
about 25-50% by volume vermiculite added (just until things
felt right) and supplemented with a couple tablespoons of
black mustard seed (for oils), half cup of stevia tea leaves,
and 1/3 cup bee pollen.

Using the 50/50 peatmoss basic casing formula plus 10% coco coir,
each spawn bag filled single 12-quart tray with about 3" to 4"
of substrate. Trays were laid with 3/4 inch casing pH-balanced
to 7.1 with calcium carbonate powder (I do not recommend hydrated
lime). I also added a lot of crushed aragonite coral per the Hawke
formula instead of crushed oyster shell.
In 5 more days the casing is completely colonized and the trays were
put in the fruiting chamber. I mixed up the very topmost casing
to give even colonization (called a light scratch). Here is the
casing 24 hours after putting it in the fruiting chamber.

The pins grow:

In a couple more days, the pins become mushrooms:

First flush harvest (pics show only one 12-quart tray worth of the harvest):

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#9 fahtster


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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:43 PM

personally don't see why it's any of your business who uses what. no offense intended but i was a little disturbed by your inquirey... i thought we had a "don't ask, don't tell." policy.


#10 Hippie3



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Posted 20 October 2006 - 09:49 PM

but hypothetically speaking...
because really it is of no concern
nor any great surprise
that some folks grow an excess
to share with others,
still that isn't really his point
instead i think he's arguing
if i'm following all this correctly
that LCs are as useful as g2g
negating the need of an extra step ?

#11 alden i

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 10:55 PM

Spawning is fun and easy and spawned flushes are satisfying to look at.

#12 fahtster


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Posted 20 October 2006 - 11:04 PM

ah... guess i missed that. excuse me in that case.


#13 tricktek



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Posted 21 October 2006 - 11:36 PM

It's fun learing something new too. I mean, I use to pf tek it, but I've enjoyed every mistake, every success, and every step between as I've added to my repetoire of technique. What is a hobby if it isn't enjoyable, and learning is certainly enjoyable to many folks, even in small villages. LOL

#14 shobimono


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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:22 AM

Blue's argument is that going from LC straight to to bulk substrate (poo/mustard/stevia/bee pollen in Blue's case) is better than going spores to wbs/grains/etc (ie spawn) to bulk substrate (ie poo).

While it is true his is a quicker method, they are really both the same.

The average joe takes say a pint/quart of colonized wbs and spawns it to a couple pounds of poo into a 12 quart rubbermaid. This is let to colonize and then cased.

The only difference between this and Blue's method is that Blue is laying a couple pounds of colonized poo into the 12 quart rubbermaid and casing it immediately. They both use the same amount of poo.

I think most people are "fascinated" with spawn because it's easier for them to go from spores to spawn to substrate.

Lc's are fast, but they take room and conditions to store properly. I know you can do the vacutainer bit, but then you must grow them out from there, thus negating some of the saved time.

There are benefits to using spawn other than trying to spawn to bulk in order to grow a shitload of fruits. Imo, it's easier to pc 16 pints of wbs/grains at one time, then innoculate with many different strains, and let colonize. This spawn may sit until you want to use it. This benefit doesn't exist with Blue's method. Once the bag is colonized, if you don't put it into a tub like he does, it will start fruiting in the bag.

This hobby is all about innovations, trade-offs, and finding what works for you.

#15 Hippie3



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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:25 AM

another salient point-
one can easily tell by looking if one's spawn is contam'd,
not so for many LCs which look ok but aren't...

#16 BuckarooBanzai


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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:56 AM

Well, my FOAF's bulk sub of choice is castings/coir/poly. My friend has tried inoculating this sub directly (with spores and LC) but has had poor results doing so.

Whereas he has had most kick ass results inoculating his bulk substrate with popcorn. Even when he does everthing all in one bag, he puts a layer of popcorn on top to colonize and then spawn (without opening the bag - cubies fruit nicely invitro).

#17 reverend trips

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:26 AM

I have a couple years supply of cubies now, stored away at a friends cottage thanks to grain spawn and G2G transfers. I can now focus on growing edible and medicinal mushrooms without having to worry about having an illegal grow going on all the time, and the paranoia that comes with it.

Now that I've learned these spawning techniques, the transition to growing other species is less intimidating and really should be a breeze.

Does that make sense?

#18 dinosaur



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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:15 AM

I ask in a earlier post if I could knock a jar up WBS with some col. spawned h-poo and have updates( not from from grain to grain)

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#19 waylitjim


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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:21 AM

I'd be suprised if that works. Horse manure as spawn isn't used because it's not a sterile medium for g2g's.

#20 golly



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Posted 24 June 2007 - 08:41 AM

In the past ,i've tried to find Rye grass seed for spawn making, but when it comes to the smaller bags of seed ,usually the mixed grasses are much cheaper..
A five Lb bag of Fescue/Bluegrass mix is less than 50cents per pound, which is cheap for any spawn material...

The Mycelium seems to like this stuff as well as any..These Ziplocks were double steamed for 75 mins ,one day apart..
These are 1 gallon double walled bags ,which hold up well in the pot..

The filter is a pollywadd held tight with a wire tie ..The black dots are the injection sights for the culture syringe..

What u see here is Shiitaki spawn[syringe from Sporeworks], almost ready for birthing..
They will be fruited directly as mini logs , layed out in a tray of potting soil.

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