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TV Guide to Colonizing a Quart Jar in Three Days


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#41 Fresh Brewed

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 06:53 PM

I was thinking about using a rather large syringe to minimize or eliminate the need to refill it with air, but ultimately I'm leaning towards an air compressor.


Seems like a three way stopcock,a sterile syringe, and some sterilzed tubing( one piece going from the 3-way down into the slurry and one piece on the other side of the 3-way to serve as a dispenser) and one of Hip's airport syringes could make a very useable pumping system that would allow the slurry jar to remain sitting on the table.
My FOAF has used a pumping system like this to do multispore injections with success.

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#42 antimatt3r

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 07:45 AM

Interesting I like the idea of this tek, wonderfully written great pics!Seems like a lot of work, if you wanted to follow this tek you would need colonized pf jars first obviously,

so would you rather make pf jars, wait 2-4 weeks for them to colonize then follow this tek to have fully colonized grain jars in 4 days?
(total 2-4wks +4days)

or just innoculate the grain jars with LC and have them done in 2 weeks?

if you had some extra pf cakes laying around already ready this would be awesome but it seems the preparation and colonization of the initial cakes defeats the purpose of a 3-4day colonization.

Im wondering if you would get larger yields by adding a milkshake pf cake to a quart of grains?

ex. cake yields say ~75g wet, quart jar of grains cased yields ~150g wet that would total 225g wet from both sources seperatley, so using this tek I wonder if you'd get the ~150g from the grains as usual alone, or the ~150g PLUS the 75g that the cake would have yielded???

Im not putting down your tek or anything its great, just adding my thoughts

#43 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 09:47 AM

the slurry was used liberally and hopefully this will make it colonize even faster. if not, then we may see contams. this was all done very casually in semi sterile conditions without the use of a flowhood. lets hope for the best.

total prep time for materials before g2g. 20 mins
total time it took to transfer 10 mins
very quick!


:cool:

Well, you should be seeing some results by now. :lol: (seriously, you should!)

Can't wait to hear how it goes, and the pic of the blended cake you posted looks just like it's supposed to (sometimes chunks just won't break up, no big deal since they float and so don't clog the nozzle if using one).

#44 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:00 AM

The evolution of cultivation just took another step forward.


Dude, that's a pretty intense compliment that took me by surprise! Thanks for that; time will tell if it's true, but considering your legendary past and ongoing contributions to amateur mycology, the comment made my day! :bow:

#45 little white rabbit

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:08 AM

so would you rather make pf jars, wait 2-4 weeks for them to colonize then follow this tek to have fully colonized grain jars in 4 days?
(total 2-4wks +4days)

but with four days more you get 20 jars out of one

and it also takes some time to colonize LC-jars ;)


@TV: interesting tek. if i have time i'll try it for a bulk. should work nice too

#46 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:40 AM

Interesting I like the idea of this tek, wonderfully written great pics!Seems like a lot of work, if you wanted to follow this tek you would need colonized pf jars first obviously,

so would you rather make pf jars, wait 2-4 weeks for them to colonize then follow this tek to have fully colonized grain jars in 4 days?
(total 2-4wks +4days)

or just innoculate the grain jars with LC and have them done in 2 weeks?


It takes awhile to get a good LC, too! This tek is not for all situations, and someone trying to fill a single small tub or aquarium would be better off fruiting the cakes directly.

Here's the thing: In the time it takes to colonize the BRF jar, you will likely have seen any contamination show up (thus saving you from contaminating a bunch of quarts) and vastly more mycelial mass will have grown than is possible to produce with an LC in the same amount of time. Actually, an LC can never produce the same amount of mycelium as a BRF jar since an LC can't contain nearly as much food as a BRF jar, and BRF jars are lower maintenance as well.

If you don't want to wait around for the BRF jars to colonize, then all it takes is some basic management. Shoot the spores into the BRF a couple weeks before you need them, then shoot a few more BRF jars a few weeks later so that as soon as your first batch is finished, the next is ready to take it's place in the FC right away.


if you had some extra pf cakes laying around already ready this would be awesome but it seems the preparation and colonization of the initial cakes defeats the purpose of a 3-4day colonization.


It might take two weeks to colonize, say, a case of 12 BRF half pints using 24 cc's of spores. By day 19 or 20 (from shooting the spores) you could very well have 240 quarts of fully colonized grain ready for fruiting or expanding further to a bulk sub. As far as I know, mine is the fastest way to get ratios like 240 quarts of grain from 24 cc's of spores in under three weeks. This tek helps achieve an economy of scale, and is really too fast for home cultivators to use to it's full potential. I'd actually been working on it so I could get into growing a (small) commercial volume of edibles without the significant investment it normally requires (your backyard sheds/growrooms will be maxed out with mushrooms long before you reach the output limits of this procedure, in other words).


Im wondering if you would get larger yields by adding a milkshake pf cake to a quart of grains?


You mean the entire liquified cake to a single quart? That would be too hard to get right, since you'd have to initially make the grain extra dry to compensate and it might not cook up properly, and it certainly won't shake up well after coming out of the PC. Then, if you oversaturate the substrate with too much water from the slurry, it will likely contaminate. In terms of inoculation rates, there's a point of diminishing returns with a procedure such as this, and finding the optimal balance is trickier than it seems, just takes some hand's-on practice.

Im not putting down your tek or anything its great, just adding my thoughts


Thoughts, questions, comments, suggestions, concerns, and criticisms are all equally appreciated; it's all about moving forward, and this is a group effort.

:rasta:

#47 eatyualive

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:29 AM

Dude, that's a pretty intense compliment that took me by surprise! Thanks for that; time will tell if it's true, but considering your legendary past and ongoing contributions to amateur mycology, the comment made my day! :bow:


waylit is right tv. nice one man!

the slurry blended up nicely for me and no chunks at all actually. only half of a pf cake was used. the pf cake itself had fine vermiculite in it.

with g2g transfer using str8 pf cakes to grain quarts i think the fastest seen in these woods is around 3-5 days tops. and thats using quite a bit of mycelia from the master pf jar.

the jars are showing a little bit of growth but it almost appears to be from the center first. the jars were shaken well and hopefully in one more day. we shall have full colonization.:headbang:

#48 hyphaenation

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 01:01 PM

Who doesn't have a jar or 2 of fully colonized something kicking around at any given time. When I look I see oysters , shitake , cubes, pans all needing to be dealt with. This slurry idea can take one lonely colonized jar and within minutes its dealt with and expanded many times.

It feels great to take a jar in that state and slurry it into a dozen PC'd jars. Now the trick is to be ready when those dozen jars are ready in a few days ! :loveeyes:

#49 bear

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:50 PM

I'm convinced. I have all these contamed? (who knows, one is, and Im not going to check the rest of them with six jars a piece - lost all of them) lcs sitting here - id be happy to see a fully colonized healthy cake and really innoculate the shit out of the grain with some very serious mycelium

#50 antimatt3r

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:13 AM

post this at shroomery!

#51 eatyualive

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 09:49 AM

hey, checked yesterday. saw pooling water in the bottoms. shook one jar for comparison and left all others alone. almost 2 days in got spotty growth now as if i just shook the g2g jars!

#52 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 10:15 AM

post this at shroomery!


I would've, but they already know everything over there. ;)



hey, checked yesterday. saw pooling water in the bottoms. shook one jar for comparison and left all others alone. almost 2 days in got spotty growth now as if i just shook the g2g jars!


Hmm, hope it works out; pooling always makes me nervous! Before using this method, I'd mixed my grain jars up with some saturated hydrogel to moderate moisture content, and what I think has been happening with my quarts is that the grain is PC'd when it's just a little on the dry side, but the extra water in the saturated hydrogel makes up for it so the grains come out perfectly (at that point the hydrogel is only partially hydrated). So, when I'm using the blended cakes as inoculum, I think the hydrogel prevents pooling by soaking up excess water.

#53 eatyualive

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 11:09 AM

I would've, but they already know everything over there. ;)





Hmm, hope it works out; pooling always makes me nervous! Before using this method, I'd mixed my grain jars up with some saturated hydrogel to moderate moisture content, and what I think has been happening with my quarts is that the grain is PC'd when it's just a little on the dry side, but the extra water in the saturated hydrogel makes up for it so the grains come out perfectly (at that point the hydrogel is only partially hydrated). So, when I'm using the blended cakes as inoculum, I think the hydrogel prevents pooling by soaking up excess water.



yeah i was nervous as well thats why i shook one jar already. just to see. im hoping it will be ok but there was quite a bit of water pooling at the bottom.

#54 eatyualive

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:23 PM

ok 56 hours later.

one jar was shaken for comparison. this seed was prepped by steeping. the grain is usually very moist. so lets hope for the best. tv, i think it would be beneficial to give a summary of how you prep your grain. i know you said on the dry side but i would have to completely agree with you on making the grain a bit dry to let some of the excess moisture soak up. or using the gel you were specifying earlier. they still look a bit gooey on the bottom. either way, next time this will be done correctly. the incubation temps are around 75 degrees.

it appears that it is colonizing from the inside out. rather interesting. and it looks kinda cool too!

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1200356856

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1200356856

hey tv sorry not trying to invade your thread. ill butt out now. im just infatuated with this right now. everything will be done like this if it works this quickly.

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#55 eatyualive

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:10 AM

tv, foaf got scared and shook half of the jars this morning. looks promising though. most likely due to using too much liquid and wet grain.

#56 AlterdImage

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:32 PM

TV that is amazing, I have some colonized stuff that I can try that with.

#57 hyphaenation

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:27 PM

post this at shroomery!


Why ? :lol:

#58 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:23 PM

tv, i think it would be beneficial to give a summary of how you prep your grain.


I've been having a hard time figuring out how to do that, since I just eyeball the amounts of the various ingredients I throw in it, then take a handful and squeeze it slowly and tightly to see if any water drips from it and to listen to how it sounds. I'm looking for one or two drops of water and listening for a prolonged squishing sound; I should hear it 'squishing' as long as it takes to fully clench my fist. If it's too dry, the sound stops before the squeezing does, if that makes sense.

Also, I've been coming to the conclusion that my process is a little excessive. I'm trying some alternatives that seem like less work, so recently my prep has been different every time. I always use pre-saturated hydrogel, however, and aim for just slightly under-hydrated grain (when I'm pre-cooking/simmering, a step some people omit but I do it). The idea is that the grain gets fully hydrated in the PC, sucking the needed water out of the hydrogel. Then, the depleted gel sucks up the excess water from the liquid inoculation. Sure enough, after PC'ing, I can't see any of the hydrated gel chunks anymore like I can beforehand. I'm guessing I use about a quarter of a cup of wet hydrogel, give or take, per quart jar.


it appears that it is colonizing from the inside out. rather interesting. and it looks kinda cool too!


Hmm, since the liquid (whether poured directly or through a nozzle) initially saturates the grain in the middle of the jar as we pour it in, I'd say that suggests more initial shaking time wouldn't hurt. Your jars are filled a bit more than I fill mine, so yours would benefit from an even longer shaking than the amount of time I recommended. I believe it is the extra-long time I shake them for (right after I inoculate) that helps get me the fastest colonization times, and those jars showed uniform growth throughout the jar.


hey tv sorry not trying to invade your thread. ill butt out now. im just infatuated with this right now. everything will be done like this if it works this quickly.


You're not invading my thread at all! You're actually doing it, which is the best endorsement a tek can get! :bow:

#59 eatyualive

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:52 PM

here it is 67 hours in.

had to shake another one it was wet at the bottom. one looks like it has a contam.

that clump of contam looks like its the mycelial brf cake mass that got stuck to the side of the chamber. kinda like the slurry itself.

about the shaking, well it was shaken well but next time we shall shake, shake, shake sinora. shake it all the time!

anyway, less liquid + dryer grain= 100% success!

so be wary of that. make your grain a bit dry by soaking less or steeping less. or adding smaller water content depending on how you make your jars.

tv, i know you make things a bit excessive but thats always good to exaggerate everything, being to anal can never do you any harm. then you can streamline.

this was done rather lazily, and it worked. taking consideration that extra liquid was used and not measured. then if it were measured or done on the lighter side this would have worked perfectly. so the one thing i would say to look out for is the moisture content. be careful about adding too much slurry.

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#60 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:02 PM

that clump of contam looks like its the mycelial brf cake mass that got stuck to the side of the chamber. kinda like the slurry itself.


I've seen that happen with mine. It may well be just fine but too densely packed to colonize since it was plastered to the glass. It all depends on how clean the culture is, since it is probably an anaerobic spot. If there are no endospores in it, it won't contaminate IME.

Really, I'd say you're looking pretty good, and I hope the moisture issue doesn't funk 'em up!

(BTW: You now have a vivid illustration of why I love this method; if left for 7-10 days to colonize, the extra water might be the jars' downfall. Since they only incubate for a few days, you'll probably get away with it!)




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