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peyote from seed


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#1 AndyLandy420

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

a foaf plans to plant some peyote seeds soon and wondered if there is anything else he should know..
-he is planning on using 1/3 coarse cand, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 organic soil with worm castings, some dolomitic limestone (not sure how much to use?) and maybe a dash of peat moss if thats recomended? the mix will be cooked in the oven for an hour to sterelize
-seeds will sprouted in a little seed sproutiong chamber with clear lid for high humidity, they will be kept at 75-80f under a standard flouro tube.
missing anything?
any input is appreciated, thanks

#2 rocketman

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 06:02 PM

Park Seed: Park's Original 60-cell Bio Dome Seed Starter - A seed-starting kit with a miniature greenhouse, growing medium, and instructions.

Lophs love them and can stay in them a long time. I recommend them to any serious cactus grower.

You wet the plugs and you dont have to worry about them drying out in a week or two. I check mine monthly for moisture, and the heavy plastic lid keeps the moisture in much better than a normal seed starter dome.

#3 AndyLandy420

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 07:46 PM

the chamber i have is damn near identical to the parks one, i am not too worried about having to check on them often, im actually looking forward to that. any other tips?
i read in one place that seeds should be soaked overnight before sowing, is this true?
thanks

#4 Myc

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 10:09 PM

Never soaked my seeds overnight. Not sure what benefit that might present?
I have used both methods. The one you are proposing and a Park's Biodome. The germination rate in both scenarios was identical. However, the Biodome is much more maintainance free as Rocketman suggests.
Much like yourself, I like to monitor my projects closely. The only drawback to regular maintainance is that you have to carefully plan trips/ outings when you won't be home. It really sucks to come home to a crop of sick (or dead) slow growing cacti!!! The Biodome helps one to be more in control of "away" time.
My opinion is that slow growers (Ariocarpus, Astrophytum, Lophophora) are simply too much work to leave to chance.
As for the lime question, I apply limestone according to manufacturer's instructions which is usually a very small amount when dealing with the volume of soil required for seedling starting. Probably even unnecessary until you are ready to transplant.
Wishing you much success and good luck!

#5 AndyLandy420

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 10:44 PM

thanks myc, any other useful info you'd like to share? what temp(s) would you recomend for germination? its good to have a little drop at night right?
i have read for the most part you want 2/3 drainage/aeration and 1/3 organic matter.
most things i read suggested that the 1/3 organic matter be potting compost, i have organic potting SOIL (1/4 worm castings), is this good or do i need to track down some compost?
any experience with peat? is it needed, i know its really acidic and lophos like alkaline so prolly not huh?
thanks again.

#6 Beshroomed

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 07:23 PM

Where ca you get those seeds?
Thanks

#7 Myc

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 08:36 PM

what temp(s) would you recomend for germination? its good to have a little drop at night right? i have organic potting SOIL (1/4 worm castings), is this good or do i need to track down some compost?
any experience with peat? is it needed, i know its really acidic and lophos like alkaline so prolly not huh?


Although not the method I use, here is a good link:


http://mycotopia.net...ed-growlog.html

The tek demonstrates that a nutritious substrate isn't extremely important for seedlings. For example, the Park's Biodome uses a non-nutritious sponge. The seedlings draw nutrition from a very mild fertilizer solution that is place in the tray under the sponges. Perfect hydration and humidity are key to success. Not too much water but not too little. Another example of seedlings not needing soil as a medium:

http://mycotopia.net...-seed-grow.html

My soil based medium is this:
1 part coarse horticultural grit
1 part sand
1 part loam (very well composted material)

Soil mediums that call for peat also call for crushed limestone chips or limestone gravel to counteract the acidity of the peat. The chips are more stable than using limestone flour and work better over time since the flour will be washed out by watering eventually.
I use a temperature controlled seedling mat for germination and winter cultivation. The mat is set between 80*-85*F. They are currently under a 14 hour light cycle and I use a 2ft. x 4ft. flourescent, 4-lamp fixture in a little grow box I built. An 18 hour light cycle was causing sunburn (peach or reddish coloring) on the tiny seedlings. After they are all a few weeks old and getting plump you can increase the light cycle. The seedling mat runs 24/7 with no drop in temperature but with the light cycling on and off in an enclosed area, there probably is a drop between "day" and "night".

A precautionary statement:
I'm still pretty new to this myself so I have spent countless hours researching the vaults and reading books and any other material I can lay hands on. I seem to be having a very good success rate. In other words, I am no expert but there are plenty of them here!

I totally missed this thread in my past searches:
http://mycotopia.net...-growguide.html
Some really SOLID logic here. Especially for a long term growing mix after transplanting your seedlings. Lots of logic involving ph versus potting mix components and most importantly, lining the bottom of your long-term pots with a layer of charcoal. It includes virtually every good point I've read in all of my searches.

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#8 AndyLandy420

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 05:56 PM

thanks again myc, theres some good stuff there. i just mixed up a little sample batch of my tentative soil, 1/3 perlite 1/3 sand 1/3 organic soil(with 25%worm castings), i did some searching for some of the things python wrote about and i cant find em, i saw charcoal but i figure i will just put super coarse perlite in the bottom of my pots(1-1.5cm chunks). i couldnt find limestone chips but i have dolomitic limestone so that'll have to do as far as alkalinity and calcium. the sample batch i mixed up looks to be alraight but then again i dont really know what im lookin for, any tips on how to tell when its just right?
thanks
also, i was still wondering how big a difference it will make that im using organic potting soil (with 1/4 worm castings) as opposed to organic compost?

#9 stroketard

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 11:43 PM

One thing I always use is Daconil spray to combat bacteria and (dare I say here) fungus.

The high humidity levels needed for germination can promote fast growth of the contam's and once there's signs of infection, the poor little loph's rarely recover (they turn in to green little slime balls).

I also have used the Park's biodome with high success...just be sure to keep a good eye out for white fuzzies on the sponges.

These are my little ones...2 yrs old.

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#10 Myc

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:15 AM

Andy,
You should be OK using the potting soil. I don't see any realy drawbacks since you're paying attention to ph.
The only way to tell if your soil is "just right" is to use a ph meter. Good luck selecting one. I'm trying a cheap one ($30.00 USD) to see if it will suit my needs. They range in price from obviously cheap to absolutely rediculous.

Stroketard,
Never tried Daconil before. Do you use it when bottom watering the seedlings or as a topical spray.
I've been using Chinosol (8-hydroxyquinolinol) with reasonable success. I did get lax for awhile and lost 2 or 3 Ariocarpus seedlings.

Clorothalonil appears to be slightly to moderately harmful. I wonder about its use in plant tissue that may eventually be consumed?? Of course, it wouldn't hurt anything in my case since I cultivate strictly ornamentals but there are those here who grow Lophs for uhh......exploration.

Chinosol, on the other hand, is pretty benign. It is used in grape grafting for wine production.

#11 stroketard

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 01:01 AM

Myc...good call on the Clorothalonil...I just use it to get them past the high-humidity seedling times. After that, they're lucky to get wet once every few weeks. Maybe for the psychonauts it will be "out of the system" by the time it's mature enough for harvest (4-5 yrs!)

I use it topically and cut it to about 1/4 strength with water. It's really thick in the original form, so cutting it helps it mist better.

P.S. I'm new here, and it's good to see other peeps with similar hobbies. Just getting in to the mycology interests.

#12 raveneye

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 08:11 PM

So while using the Parks biodome how do you use the fungicide. Spray or bottom water. I am about ready to set out on a big biodome cactus experiment.

#13 Myc

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 10:17 PM

I use a 0.01% solution of Chinosol (1 gram in 1 liter of water) and add the recommended amount of seedling starter fertilizer included with the Biodome for the bottom watering.
Then I use a 0.05% solution for topical application (misting) to prevent damping off if increasing ventilation doesn't work.

#14 Myc

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 10:22 PM

P.S. I'm new here, and it's good to see other peeps with similar hobbies. Just getting in to the mycology interests.


I didn't get to say welcome Stoketard!
They usually roll out the welcome mat here by making you aware of our sponsors and some of the interesting facets of this site. The sponsors here are all SOLID vendors. Very fast, helpful, and efficient. Feel safe shopping with them for your hobby needs.

You came to the right place. Welcome to the community.

#15 Nunyabiz

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:40 PM

Swim uses these.. get em at the hardware stores..

They are like a mini greenhouse..

Nothing works better..

oooops! for some reason they wont load.. so ill describe em.. theyre rectangle and have like 72 peat pots. Its got a clear plastic top.. the peat pots are dehydrated when you buy em..

#16 Kadass

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:19 PM

top dressing with fine sand should elliminate any need for fungus chemicals. i have never sterilized any of my mixes and have yet to have any Loph germination troubles or fungus troubles.

#17 AndyLandy420

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 04:20 PM

thanks for all the info everyone. is fungus really that big a threat? i didnt really plan on getting a fungicide but it sounds like it might be a big deal. i checked my local hardware store for fungicide and all they had was sulphur spray (.4% sulphur, 99.6% water), how does sulphur do with lophos? ive heard of using sulphur powder when slicing a button open, but never spraying soil with it. thanks

also, i was wondering how much dolomitic limestone to use, i was gunna follow the directions on the bag (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons of soil) but i read pythons post and his recipe contained like 20% dolmitic limestone, does dolomitic limestone get to a certain PH and then stop reacting (like calcium carbonate in mush substrate) or can it be overdone? thanks

#18 python

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 04:50 PM

the recipe i posted a while back was intended to mimic the natural habitat of the peyote

does it do anything special ---- From my experience: NO

from that tek, sterilizing your soil could always be a good idea

other than that i tend to find that the simpler you go, the better off you typically are with yotes............. ROCKETs method of using soil and domes has worked incredibly nice for him, and at this point, i had to say go with that methodolgy -----

and yes, rot and fungus can be big problem makers


NOW - to go back and read the thread--- LOL

OK---i read it


1st : SWEET FUCKING GROW BOX MYC!




2nd: OK, Like i said before------the domes and the "easy soil method" rocket uses will work well --- I mean from what i hear his methods include very little care and work...

as far as the limestone chips (you can find them at those places that sell truckloads of mulch) --- i experimented with the chips to provide good drainage and mimic the environment of the natural habitat of peyote = limestone mostly

Powdered dolomitic lime is not needed IMO (but can be added to increase calcium) and for that matter, neither are the limestone chips (but are used in the same manner)

charcoal is unnecessary, and was used as a mechanism to prevent any type fungus, soaking, clogging, etc. at the container bottoms

provide adequate light, meaning sun -- not floro once past the germ stage

referring back to the substrate --- like i said before, some soil/cubes/ or even cactus soil will probably be your easiest bet--- to get results

IF you fuck it up --- someone might know where to find some seed :reb:

#19 AndyLandy420

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:10 PM

thanks python, any experience with sulphur to combat fungus?

#20 python

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:22 PM

not really something you need to physically combat IMO

as long as u give good conditions (DO not be excessive with water) and are relatively sterile while handling ---- you shouldnt have any problems

FYI - rot is typically cut out and removed --- it happens: don't freak if it does, these cacti are resilient and easy to break up and plant again

:D




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