55 replies to this topic

[warriorsoul]

Can i make a hybrid by mixing the spores of two different strains in water?

[Aqua Velva]

Can i make a hybrid by mixing the spores of two different strains in water?

No.

[warriorsoul]

why not?

[Aqua Velva]

Creating a hybrid takes a little more effort than that. Since I see you posted the same question over at the Shroomery, I'll give you a hint. Use their search feature and search for "hybrids" or "crossing strains" and in the "username" type "workman".

If it were that easy, everyone would be making hybrids.

[warriorsoul]

I have read some of the threads on the subject.
When spores germinate they are monokaryons until they mate with the closet compatible spore and become Dikaryon.
I found this interesting..
System prevents selfing, promotes outcrossing.
As long as the Afactors and B factors are different they mate.
Differences are based on alleles present at each of the A factor loci, and each of the B factor loci.
A(allele set 1)1
A(allele set2)2
B(alllele set1)1
B(allele set2)2

A1B1 mates with A2B2 succesfully. Dikaryon.
A1B1 mating with A2B1 might form clamps but not true clamps, no success.
A2B1 mates with A2B2 no clamps, no success.
Mating between a single strain 1/4 compatability.
Mating between two different strains, that share NO common parents, 100% compatable.
Mating between two strains that share a like A or B factor will result in 3/4 compatability.
If there is no common parent there should be over a 98% of mating. This doesn't apply to mixing mycelium of different strains, though, of course. Only to different spores mating.

[Aqua Velva]

For the paired dikaryon to be a true hybrid, the resulting fruits would have to produce spores. That is the real challenge with creating a true hybrid.

[warriorsoul]

So what % of the mushrooms are hybrids in a cross like this?
Wouldnt you up the odds by mixing the spores a well as possible before they germinate?

[chrissbl]

exactly aqua...... I don't see any spores or veil or anything on these semi-hybrids..... They are much smaller then usual with the Mazatapec(TC) I did , but the Golden Teacher and Treasure Coast. Is a larger mushroom but I see gills but not sure about spores...I shall verify this once I get my sisters microscope :D

[warriorsoul]

You dont need a microscope to take a spore print

[the_chosen_one]

Aqua Velva - i beg to differ. with the correct dilution ratios it can be accomplished much like in stamets TMC strain dilution and isolation tek. it's a lot more random, but it can be done. i have a short write up in some of the vaulted albino threads.

[warriorsoul]

Doesn't really apply to what i'm talking about, but thanks!

What would happen if you made two spore prints on top of each other from different strains?

The laws of genetics should favor the crossing of the two strains.
F1 hybrid vigor should be noticed.
F2 recessive phenotypes should also be noticed.

I guess you could call it passive hybridization for lack of a better term.
But i really think it would work..
Time to make some hybrid prints!

[the_chosen_one]

not to say it won't work but, the problem with simply mixing spores is germination timing. chances are that one strain will germinate before the other and within a matter of hours hyphae have already mated.

dilution could improve your chances by stretching things out a bit.. geometrically speaking. as the monokaryons grow longer and there is more space between them, possibly allowing more time for germination of the other strain and extention of hyphae.

dilution will also reduce the number of substrains and it will be easier to isolate the one you are looking for. ;)

many good vibes to you with your experiment!

[warriorsoul]

Thanks!
I have considered the hydration issue.
(As spores age they lose water and take longer to germinate)

I plan to take both prints right after one another.
and on top of each other to maximize contact.
I'm considering using an anti-clumping agent.

If only 1 in 4 hyphae with the same parents can mate,
and 4 out of 4 hyphae from different strains mate.
This favors the hybrid.
Hopefully any small differences in germination times will be nullified by the 100% compatibility of unrelated hyphae.

The key may be to use spores that are the same age with the same hydration.
That should help maximize contact between monokaryotic hyphae.
All the spores wont germinate at the exact same time,
there should be enough overlap in germination rates to give the hybrids a chance.

[the_chosen_one]

:D now this topic gets really interesting!

Workman and i have discussed anti-clumping agents to a meager extent..

if i may ask, what did you have in mind? if you don't want to disclose i understand :reb:

[warriorsoul]

I was thinking of jet-dry.
Looks like my first cross is going to be Falbino x PE6.

[the_chosen_one]

two crosses, both quite solid :D excellent choice!!! this is great! :eusa_clap

many good vibes :heart:

[warriorsoul]

I've chosen to overlap the prints so i can take spores from both the Falbino and PE6 strain and the hybrid to compare.:bow:

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[SporeCrazy]

I'm nnot entirely up on this whole process... but what would be the results if you mixed those spores in an lc? Would the resulting myc be combined or seperate?

[warriorsoul]

The main reason i overlapped the prints is because i wanted at least some of the spores from the two strains to stick together and hopefully increase the chance of mating.
I got four jars of the hybrid and two jars of the original strains to compare growth.

Have to come up with a name if this works..
So far i've got FATE (f+,albino,texan,envy) or F6..
Let me know what you think y'all!
:rasta:

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[mockeylock]

The main reason i overlapped the prints is because i wanted at least some of the spores from the two strains to stick together and hopefully increase the chance of mating.
I got four jars of the hybrid and two jars of the original strains to compare growth.

Have to come up with a name if this works..
So far i've got FATE (f+,albino,texan,envy) or F6..
Let me know what you think y'all!
:rasta:

Well you're going to have a hell of a time convincing anyone you succeeded even if you did....

What distictive phenotypes are you looking for from each strain? Unfortunately, PE is known to throw out albinos...