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Fruiting Thru Gap in Trays...Question


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#21 Pedestrian

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:41 AM

I don't think anyone has mentioned it in this thread yet, but I have seen the following pinning procedure work well for some people.


Once your substrate is almost 100% colonized, in a clean environment, get a fresh clean sheet of wax paper and lay it across the your substrate so it is on most of the surface area. You'll know when to case when you see tiny pinheads form under the wax paper. In a clean place, remove the wax paper. With your desired recipe, case very gently so you don't damage the growing pins. After casing provide your FAE and misting at your normal schedule(s).

How it works: The wax paper acts as a humidity blanket as well as providing a slightly higher concentration of gas on the surface to help pinning. Air can still flow through the small gap in between the substrate surface and paper. Moisture loss is greatly reduced. *****While utilizing this method, it is very important to do regular Fresh Air Exchanges. No slacking!*** The reason for this is to keep the air under the paper from getting too old. Automated, filtered FAE systems are ideal but fanning still works as long as you're in a semi-clean place.


Best of luck.

Ped

#22 Triptolemus

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:11 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned it in this thread yet, but I have seen the following pinning procedure work well for some people.


Once your substrate is almost 100% colonized, in a clean environment, get a fresh clean sheet of wax paper and lay it across the your substrate so it is on most of the surface area. You'll know when to case when you see tiny pinheads form under the wax paper. In a clean place, remove the wax paper. With your desired recipe, case very gently so you don't damage the growing pins. After casing provide your FAE and misting at your normal schedule(s).

How it works: The wax paper acts as a humidity blanket as well as providing a slightly higher concentration of gas on the surface to help pinning. Air can still flow through the small gap in between the substrate surface and paper. Moisture loss is greatly reduced. *****While utilizing this method, it is very important to do regular Fresh Air Exchanges. No slacking!*** The reason for this is to keep the air under the paper from getting too old. Automated, filtered FAE systems are ideal but fanning still works as long as you're in a semi-clean place.


Best of luck.

Ped

Could clear cellophane be used in place of the wax paper or would the plastic tend to hold too much water and thus be prone to drops falling onto the pins?

#23 Triptolemus

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:20 PM

As an observation of the dunking procedure...It's amazing the texture and mass that the substrate takes on. This is the 1st time I've dunked as well as the 1st time using bulk trays so I've never examined a fully colonized tray. They have a "sponginess" to them with almost a rubbery texture, quite interesting indeed. I can understand why the dunk is to be done during several hours as the density of the mycelia is slow to absorb the water.
I've just put them back into the fruiting chamber after four hours submerged. I skimmed some of the casing off and fluffed up the remaining bits.
Will pinning take another week or so more after dunking?

#24 Myc

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 12:49 PM

Could clear cellophane be used in place of the wax paper or would the plastic tend to hold too much water and thus be prone to drops falling onto the pins?


IME, the cellophane interferes with gas exchange and promotes cobweb. Never tried wax paper.

#25 Triptolemus

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 08:35 PM

I won't be covering the trays in any case, prefer to stick to the course I've laid out beforehand.
I've dunked, fluffed up the casing, and they're back in the fruiting chamber. I have indeed learned a lesson about proper casing hydration...hopefully this second flush will be more fruitful.
Thanks to all for all the great advice!

#26 Pirate

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:12 PM

I won't be covering the trays in any case, prefer to stick to the course I've laid out beforehand.
I've dunked, fluffed up the casing, and they're back in the fruiting chamber. I have indeed learned a lesson about proper casing hydration...hopefully this second flush will be more fruitful.
Thanks to all for all the great advice!


I want to agree with Trip some GREAT advice. I'd been having the same problem but after scratching and dunking I have never seen a pin set like this is my years of loving this hobby.
:eusa_clap

#27 Pedestrian

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:34 AM

Could clear cellophane be used in place of the wax paper or would the plastic tend to hold too much water and thus be prone to drops falling onto the pins?


Absolutely not... cellophane is a bitch to handle and it doesn't stay nice and flat to allow air/gas flow. That method only works with wax paper and the outlined procedure. Its just one of a hundred fruiting methods.

#28 Triptolemus

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 05:06 AM

I want to agree with Trip some GREAT advice. I'd been having the same problem but after scratching and dunking I have never seen a pin set like this is my years of loving this hobby.
:eusa_clap

I take it you have had similar problems to those laid down in this thread? Would you care to share or elaborate on them some more?

#29 abbr.

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 10:36 AM

I decided to dunk this morning and it was then that I discovered what is clearly the problem with this low yeilding flush.
OVERDRYNESS.
a lesson about proper hydration chalked up to the learning experience.


Glad to see you're staying positive.
Being able to learn from your mistakes
is priceless IMO

Good vibes for a "Full Canopy" second flush headed your way!

:meditate:

#30 Triptolemus

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:12 AM

Howdy all!
Well, five days into the 2nd flush (after a 4 hour dunk and casing fluff) and there is no real sign of new growth. The occasional caps that appear continue to pop up from the infamous gap in the tray (note: the sides of the trays are opaque). The parameters are good and the casing is hydrated so I am inclined to think there is another issue.
Upon dunking I could see a portion of one of the tray's sides was exposed to light and upon peering below I could see quite heavy pinning taking place. This is a 1"x4" slice along the perimeter where the duct tape had not covered entirely the side. The pinning was only on the portion exposed to light, was quite impressive but being squashed against the side of the tray and never developing while the top surface showed no signs of pinning and no heavy myeclia growth.
In retrospect I am convinced I cased the substrate before being fully colonized as is always suggested by other members. Also, after casing I probably began fruiting before I should have as well. This being said, I am willing to call my losses and move forward. However, I want to at least get what I can off this run before it ends....so, I have two questions.

1. Is it feasible to flip the substrate upside down to expose the underside that exhibits much thicker rhizomorphic growth? (In essence I suppose it would be like a modified PF Tek with a light roll in Vermiculite to hold in moisture)

2. If the 1st question has no positive answer, is it possible to return the trays to the incubator with their lids on once again to allow more time to colonize?

Thanks in advance for all your help...this past week has been more educational than an entire year reading about mycology. In practice, of course, things are always experienced in a different light and there is nothing like getting in their and getting your feet wet to know just how cold the water is...or something to this effect!
Anyway, thanks to all and I must say there is a new kid in town who is going to be in this for the long haul....I'm addicted to mycelium!:headbang:

#31 Triptolemus

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 06:59 PM

I know these threads get lost in the haystack with so many inquiries posted throughout the day so I thought I'd put it to the top of the order tonight in hopes of getting some experienced advice regarding the two questions I posted yesterday (the previous post above this one).
Thanks in advance.

#32 golly

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:22 PM

Finding a thread in a haystack is tougher than finding a needle...;)

You certainly can flip a sub to fruit although your 2nd flush takes a week or so to come, so it could be forming now..
If u do flip , lightly case to hold moisture as u said...

#33 Triptolemus

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:33 PM

Finding a thread in a haystack is tougher than finding a needle...;)

You certainly can flip a sub to fruit although your 2nd flush takes a week or so to come, so it could be forming now..
If u do flip , lightly case to hold moisture as u said...


Golly...here in Spain they use a familiar saying for people like you:
"Eres la leche"...literally, you are the milk. Or more appropriately, you're impressive or awesome or something to this effect.
Thanks a bunch for confirming my hunch (I'm a poet and don't even know it...lol)
Of the three trays I flipped one this morning (the one with the visible side) just to give it a go and see what happens. I sifted a layer of vermi over it and it looks really good. Lot's of hyphal knots, pinning and even some primordia. This could turn out better than expected after all.
So far I've plucked 9 grams dried from the first flush and now have a couple of stragglers peering through the gaps as previously mentioned - these are some impressive specimens with a nice fat stem and huge cap opening up. In the morning I'll pick them I imagine once the veil drops.
I've already sampled the fruits of my labor and my journey is clearly headed into the realms I have missed so dearly over the years.
I'm home again.

#34 golly

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:45 PM

Thanx...Sounds like your on your way...Keep well ventilated n' you should be good...




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