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Kratom and Salvia Plants

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#1 JohnQShroomer


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Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:25 AM

I'm planning on purchasing a Kratom plant and a Salvia plant from either BBB or KT. I'm curious as to how easy they are to take care of and if anyone can post any good links that would help. ANyone have any experience taking care of either of these?

#2 Mermaidia


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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:16 AM

Our kratom tree does wonderfully in the summer, but doesn't do well during the winter months. It's needs plenty of light, heat and humidity. Also I've read that the soil should never completely dry out, but drain well.

It's going back outside as soon as mother nature remembers that it's spring. ;)

I have heard that salvia is difficult to keep. Here is some info i found on salvia. Do you know if you will be getting a rooted plant or a cutting?

In its "natural" environment of the Sierra Mazateca, the highest temperature is about 26°C (78°F), and more typically ranges between 16-21°C (60-70°F). Salvia divinorum does best in a relatively cool and mild climate. Above 29°C (85°F), any plant that isn't well acclimated, or inside a humidity tent, will show signs of wilting. If your plant is properly acclimated and/or inside a humidity tent, it should withstand warm days without any harm. On very hot days, simply leave the misters on longer.
If the temperature drops below freezing, S. divinorum will quickly die, wilting and turning a horrifying black overnight. Therefore, if you live in a cold location you will need to move your S. divinorum plants indoors or into a heated greenhouse during the severest winter months. We have not discovered any way to resuscitate a frozen plant. The best you can do, should one of your plants fall victim to unexpected cold temperatures, is to cut it back to about 26 cm (10 in) above the soil level, and hope that the rootball survived. Come warmer temperatures, the plant might recover - but many don't. (Plants that do grow back after a freeze often grow prolifically because of the well-developed rootmass.)
Most growers who move their plants indoors during the winter, perform their major leaf harvest in late summer. This garners a substantial amount of foliage while also making it much easier to move the otherwise lanky plants with less risk of damage. Cut the plants back to about 26 cm (10 in) above the soil level. They will heal and grow just a hit during the fall. As temperatures grow colder move them inside under artificial lights or into a heated greenhouse.
Another winter option is to force your plants into dormancy by cutting them back and moving them to a fairly well-lit but cool shelter - no colder than 4°C (40°F). With little or no leaves on them, the plants require watering only about once every six weeks (no misting is required) and can withstand at least four months of such conditions without harm (Beifuss 1998). This is a good technique for those who wish a vacation from tending their plants year-round.
Misting, watering & feeding

Even well-established Salvia divinorum plants do best with regular misting. If you only have a few plants, this can be done with a hand spray bottle, filled with room temperature purified water. Water quality can markedly affect S. divinorum. You might consider experimenting with collected rainwater, unless you live in an area affected by acid rain. (Check the pH of collected rainwater before using it.)
Avoid tap water that is excessively hard (i.e., above 150 ppm hardness), or water with sodium levels above 50 ppm (a level which some municipal water can exceed even without softening). Water above these levels has a deleterious effect upon S. divinorum.
If you have several plants, we recommend that you purchase a pump-type spray bottle. These bottles hold about two liters of water and have a pump that protrudes from the cap. After pumping them up, they emit a fine spray just by squeezing the trigger. These bottles can be purchased at K-Mart for about $10.00.
If your plants are grown outdoors or in a humidity tent, we strongly recommend that you set up a drip watering system that utilizes misting nozzles. (The Raindrip® misting nozzle mentioned earlier delivers 3 gallons per hour.) This is certainly the most efficient way to mist your plants. You can set such a system on a timer to turn on for five minutes several times per day, or you can turn the water on by hand. Regular misting keeps the soil damp on top, but don't make the mistake of thinking that regular watering is not also required.
We water our S. divinorum every 7 to 10 days with a fish emulsion mixture, according to directions on the bottle. We use Alaska® "fish fertilizer", which is 5-1-1. There are some drawbacks to using fish emulsion. As you would expect, fish emulsion stinks, and you should seriously consider this before watering indoor plants with it. Even for outdoor plants, the fishy odor is strong enough to call out to roaming cats, dogs, possums, or other animals. Therefore, if you feed your plants with fish emulsion be sure they are in a protected location where curious animals cannot get to them! Also, more than powdered fertilizers, fish emulsion seems to attract insect pests. All things considered, it is still our choice of fertilizer.
Every third watering or so, rather than use fish emulsion we use Stern's Miracid® a 30-10-10 fertilizer that contains chelated iron, magnesium and zinc. This helps keep our soil slightly acidic. We water about one-third as often in the winter months, but mist just as frequently. In his experiments at the University of Michigan, Valdés fertilized his plants once per week with Stern's Miracle Gro® a 15-30-15 fertilizer. To increase the acidity of the solution he added I ml of an 85% phosphoric acid solution per 5 gallons of water (Valdés et al. 1987). The soil should never be allowed to become bone dry. By watering once every 7 to 10 days, and misting every day, our soil cycles from very wet immediately after watering, to almost dry on the day before the next watering. Allowing the soil moisture to cycle in this way encourages aeration and guards against root rot.

Salvia divinorum does best in filtered sunlight. Conventional wisdom is to avoid all direct sunlight and such advice is, by and large, good advice. We have found, however, that once acclimated, S. divinorum does fine with some direct sunlight each day. A plant that gets too much direct sunlight will start to develop smaller deformed and coarse leaves.
Once they have been potted into soil, we grow all our plants in natural sunlight. The single best supplement to natural light is a high pressure sodium (HPS) lamp. An HPS lamp is more efficient than an equivalent watt metal halide lamp and its spectrum of light is more conducive to the rooting of new cuttings. As a supplement to natural light, a 400 watt HPS lamp will illuminate a primary growing area of just under 2 square meters (about 6 ft x 6 ft). For growers with three or fewer plants, a 250 watt HPS lamp should suffice.
Plants grown exclusively under a sodium lamp, however, will be slightly leggier than plants grown under a metal halide lamp. Therefore, if you are growing S. divinorum without any natural light and want to maximize vegetative growth, a metal halide lamp is your best choice (Chomicz 1998). Valdés reported that his plants did well under cool white VHO fluorescent lights (Valdés et al. 1987). Another grower has successfully used a 400 watt metal halide lamp to illuminate a 2.5 square meter (about 8 ft x 8 ft) growing space (Beifuss 1997). He reports that the leaves lighten in color, but this does not seem to harm the plants nor affect their potency.
When using a high-watt lamp (HPS or metal halide), keep the lamp at least two feet above the plants to avoid burning them. A reddish blush to the leaves indicates that the light is still too close to the plant tops. Because high-watt lamps emit a dry heat, extra misting may be necessary. Before doing this however, shield the lamp from water droplets. Hot lamps can explode if water hits them! Under artificial light, S. divinorum foliage is maximized with eighteen hours of light per day. To produce flowers, natural or artificial light must be reduced to no more than 11 hours per day.
Hydroponic cultivation

Salvia divinorum can be grown hydroponically. A basic hydroponic setup utilizes a special growing medium in place of soil, and a rudimentary drip system driven by a low wattage aquarium pump that trickles a stream of nutrient solution through the growing medium. The solution is recaptured in a reservoir, oxygenated by a second aquarium pump fitted with a bubbler, and re-circulated.
Although hydroponic cultivation requires extra attentiveness by the grower, at least one very successful cultivator, Mr. Andrew Chomicz, reports that the additional care is rewarded with excellent results. The following sections are derived from his extensive exploration of S. divinorum hydroponic cultivation techniques (Chomicz 1998).
Growing medium

Salvia divinorum does weil in a 75/25 mix of expanded clay pebbles and coconut fiber (aka "coconut coil"). Expanded clay pebbles manufactured specifically for hydroponic growing (and sold under brand names such as HydroRock™ and Grorox™) offer superior oxygenation to rockwool, and are far more environmentally friendly than rockwool slabs.
Coconut fiber is a recent breakthrough in hydroponic cultivation - a welcome alternative to materials like peat (which is often ravenously scoured from sensitive peat bogs). Coconut fibers are a completely natural product recovered from the waste stream of commercial coconut processing. The fibers are excellent at holding oxygen as well as water, thereby improving aeration. They also help stabilize pH and buffer against nutrient fluctuations and temporary equipment malfunctions. Coconut fiber even seems to discourage some plant pathogens.
Mr. Chomicz has experimented with water culture - a system that entirely dispenses with a solid growing medium. In water culture the roots of the plants are suspended or floated in a bath of constantly re- circulating and oxygenated liquid nutrient.
A similar technique, known as "nutrient film technique" (NFT) employs channels, tubes, or gutters, in which the plants hang, and through which a thin film of nutrient solution constantly circulates. An even more minimalist technique, called "aeroponics," constantly mists the roots with nutrient solution. Because aeroponics provides a highly-oxygenated solution, S. divinorum grown aeroponically is said to do remarkably well. The major draw back, however, is that an aeroponic system must function flawlessly. The slightest glitch (e.g., an interruption of power or a clogged mister) spells disaster; for without any growing medium to retain water, the roots quickly dry out and suffer potentially irremediable damage.
Nutrient management

There are numerous brands of fertilizer that are manufactured expressly for hydroponic systems. No particular brand or formulation stands out as best for Salvia divinorum. Because S. divinorum seems to appreciate mineral-rich media, look for a formula which contains micro nutrients in addition to the usual profile of macro nutrients.
Use a formula intended for vegetative growth and follow the manufacturer's directions to mix the solution. If the manufacturer gives different mixing ratios for specific crops, good results will be obtained by following the ratio used for growing lettuce or other leafy crops. If you have an EC meter (an instrument that measures electric conductivity - a function of the concentration of dissolved fertilizer salts in the nutrient solution) aim for an EC level of between 1.6 and 2.4.
It is very important that you change your nutrient solution regularly. When plants are actively growing, this means a complete change of solution every four to six weeks. Although the nutrient solution is re-captured in a reservoir and re-circulated, the amount of liquid in circulation will slowly decrease due to evaporation and plant respiration. Top-up the reservoir with a ½ strength nutrient solution. Using a ½ strength solution will help guard against the accumulation of excess nutrients while still replenishing those which have been depleted.
Salvia divinorum roots love oxygen. For this reason, it helps to oxygenate the nutrient solution when it is re-captured in the reservoir. This is easily done by employing a second aquarium pump fitted with a bubbler placed in the reservoir. You can also take advantage of the fact that oxygen is more soluble in cool water. Generally speaking, the colder the water, the higher the content of oxygen. Simply by keeping your nutrient solution cool, you will increase the oxygen content of the solution and significantly benefit your plants. The optimum temperature of nutrient solution is between 18-21°C (65-70°F). Using a solution that is much warmer will stress the plants and invite serious pathogens such as the root-rotting fungus pythium. Therefore, it is important to keep your nutrient reservoir out of direct sun from late spring to early fall.
In the winter months, it may be necessary to slightly heat the nutrient solution. Use an aquarium heater in the reservoir, or use a dark colored reservoir to absorb warming sunlight.

Hydroponic cultivation requires very careful attention to the pH of the nutrient solution. For the clay pebbles/coconut fiber medium, a pH of between 5.5 and 6.0 is optimum. For rockwool, a more alkaline solution of between 6.0 and 6.3 seems best in order to protect against an acidic breakdown of the rockwool's mineral structure. Inexpensive pH test strips are the best way to monitor the pH of the solution, unless you invest in an expensive pH pen or meter. (Low-priced pH meters are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable). Phosphoric acid can be used to lower pH, while adding potassium hydroxide will raise pH. The pH of the solution should be tested at least every three days, and immediately adjusted as required.

That was taken from this site:The Salvia Divinorum Grower's Guide - []

#3 Toecutter


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Posted 20 March 2008 - 10:08 AM

I treat my salvia like hell and it does pretty good. I
keep them under 6500k T8 florescent lamps and
around 70F all year. Keep your soil moist. If the
soil is too dry they will droop but recover quickly
after watering. The cuttings readily root in plain
water and take well to initial potting. When you
get your plants, before you can treat them like
shit, you will have to acclimate them slowly to
your conditions.
Good luck!

#4 crankykid



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Posted 20 March 2008 - 12:17 PM

Kratom is even easier to care for. It enjoys direct sunlight along with plenty of water. I purchased both a salvia and kratom rooted cutting from Bouncing Bear last year. They are both alive and well inside for now during these winter months.


#5 Freaky


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Posted 20 March 2008 - 12:33 PM

I don't know about salvia but have had a good run with my Kratom. I'm doing as said above and putting back outside once its warm again. My Keaton did fine with watering over the winter just sitting in my kitchen. Though I don't think that is how most care for theirs over winter. A search here at Topia will turn up some good info for you.

#6 August West

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 01:23 PM

Salvia can be tricky...DO NOT let it get any frost! I had acclimated mine to handle being outside in the northwest well into fall (I had them in cold frames). I got greedy and/or lazy though and left them outside for the first frost of the year. Even with a double paned, well-insulated cold frame closed up, four of my five strains became frost bitten and eventually died - even and perhaps because I brought them back inside. "La Fuerza" (that's the name of an actual strain) was the only one that survived.

Luckily I had taken some cuttings at harvest and now have five plants growing again. Like an idiot though, I didn't label my cuttings. So now, the only one I know I have is the origional La Fuerza.

Since I'm not sure about posting a non-sponsored supplier, I'll just say that I got mine from a brilliant nursery in Sebastopol. They have a connection to local theater in their area too - can't recommend them enough. Their website is top-notch.

The Salvia Divinorum Grower's Guide - []

good luck!

#7 suckerfree



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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:56 PM

dunno bro, i grow lots of different greens and kratom i had no luck with. both my plants died. :( at least they didn't like my indoor greenhouse, perhaps if it had been warm enough for them to go outside things may have been different...

#8 golly



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Posted 20 March 2008 - 06:13 PM

Kratom is pretty much a novelty plant outside of the Subtropics ,as it needs to be quite large to harvest a worthwhile crop..Also attractive to mites n' whiteflies..

On the plus side , they do grow rapidly and will often bounce back from complete defioliation in winter [As long as temps stay above 40F]..

I found Salvia to be more resiliant to temp/humidity extremes ..Mine survive brief temps in upper 20s as long as the root zone is above freezing ..Also has less bug problems..
A good plant for the collector as it's legality is diminishing and does produce a useable
harvest ...
Both these plants have to be babied at first though , requiring humid, bright, warm conditions...

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