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My Tips for Consuming MG/HBW Seeds and Share Yours :)

consuming mg or hbw seeds share tips

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#1 The Wizard

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:00 PM

I was looking for feedback on your personal experiences with different varieties of Morning Glory seeds and different brands. I usually use Burpee brand which I believe is untreated and usually gives me little nausea and a very clean trip. I used K-Mart's Martha Stewart brand many years ago and got horrible nausea and believe the seads were chemically treated.

Are K-Mart's brand of MG's still treated or have they changed and now are clean to consume? I ask this because I'm curious about trying the K-Mart brand again as I heard they're much more potent than Burpee (any truth to this potency thing?).

Does anyone have experience with the American Seed brand of MG seeds? The packets don't say anything about being chemically treated and are offered for an EXTREMELY reasonable price. They're merely 97 cents and contain over 4 grams per packet. I bought up as many as I could at Wal-Mart the other day as I've NEVER seen such a cheap deal on MG's and was quite excited. I'm weary though as to how American Seed can offer MG's so much cheaper than Burpee and the other brands. Are there seeds much weaker than the other brands are of a compareable potency or what?

Has anyone tried Wal-Mart Gardens brand of MG's and how were they? At Wal-Mart the other day they had very little Burpee brand MG's and instead mainly Wal-Mart Gardens brands. I'm weary of trying this brand as I've never heard of it and fear them being chemically treated or weak. With American Seed brand I'm not so supicious of a weak potency or being chemically treated as American Seed has been around over 100 years and is prob. quite reputable.

Has anyone tried MG seeds from hardware stores like Lowe's and Home Depot or no? I wondered how their selection and pricing compares to Wal-Mart and K-Mart. Maybe I'd be better of buying most MG seeds online (where I'd assume MG's tend to be fresher, more potent and untreated) rather from these national stores?

I ordered the other day 30 grams of MG seeds from a very reputable site, MJB-Botanicals. Before shipping they costed merely $5 which looked like a very good deal to me. Supposedly MJB is one of the finest ethnobotanical vendors online so I'm hoping for some very quality seeds.

Some of you might get a few doses out of 30 grams of MG's but I expect to only get one fairly potent trip. Last time I did MG's I used 25 grams of Burpee Heavenly Blues and got a moderately intense trip (nothing overwhelming). I'm pretty positive my preparation method was fine (I grinded the seeds to an extremely fine powder then stirred them into an ice cream malt and ate on an empty stomach) and wasn't wasteful and that I merely have an extremely high psychological tolerant to Tryptamine psychedelics right now (from very, very frequent experimention with HBW and blotter recently).

After going on prob. well over 30 HBW trips last year I find I've this permanent extremely high tolerance to most psychedelics I use these days (except Tussin).

How do Flying Saucers, Pearly Gates, Wedding Bells, etc. compare potency wise to Heavenly Blues. Are they always weaker than Heavenly Blues and do the effects differ subjectively? I wonder if I combined a few varieties how they'd synergize.

Oh and I'm very enthusiastic about joining your forums and grateful to be allowed to be a member. I'm impressed with the amount of well informed, descriptive, helpful tips people give on here. Hopefully my knowledge on plant psychedelics, smart drugs, and health supplements can be of use to you guys :)

#2 The Wizard

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:31 PM

I wanted to summarize for you guys some of the techniques I use for maximing my HBW (Woodrose) and MG (Morning Glory) trips and minimizing side effects.

For one thing it is important you eat only very lightly the day of your trip. If you must you can consume a light breakfast but for the rest of the day, especially when you're getting close to your trip time, eat at the most only tiny snacks of soft foods (like yogurt, pudding, etc.). Fasting does wonders for minimizing any seed-induced nausea. I do think it's good to have a tiny bit of food in your stomach when you eat your seeds as this way if you barf later you won't dry heave.

I hear preloading on fresh Ginger (brewed as a tea or toss n washed), ground Ginger, or Ginger Ale (Reed's brand has 17 grams of Ginger) helps a lot with the nausea. I'm not sure if eating more Ginger while tripping on the seeds would help further or not. Puffs of MJ while tripping can further help decrease the nausea.

If one lies down or shuts their eyes they might further conquer bouts with LSA nature.

If you feel your stomach is telling you it badly wants to throw up the seeds you should prob. listen to it and let yourself vomit. If one tries to hold back the nausea for the whole trip it can become a real dysphoric buzzkiller and make the trip hard to enjoy. I ask only that you try holding down the seeds till an hour or 2 after eating them to make sure they've fully absorbed. If you vomit only an hour or less after eating the seeds you will waste some of the effects and get a weaker, shorter trip.

Now how to ingest the seeds- You def. will need a coffee grinder or something else to grind the seeds. This is because the LSA's in the seeds won't be absorbed well by your body unless the seeds are extremely finely ground up. I recommend you get a nice, expensive coffee grinder like Mr. Coffee brand since the cheaper grinders can take much longer to grind your seeds.

When dealing with a cheap grinder the seeds grind so slow that the grinder gets hot before the seeds are done grinding. If the grinder starts to get warm you have to immediately turn it off and let it cool as heat destroys LSA's. Whereas, my Mr. Coffee grinder grinds the seeds to an extremely fine powder in a minute :)

Next I'd recommend rather than doing an extraction that you simply eat the seed powder. I'd recommend you do this one of two ways- pack the seed powder in big capsules (will take a zillion capsules though...) or mix the seed powder with a beverage or food (peanut butter, pudding, yogurt). If you're going to mix the seeds with a drink I recommend a thick, sweet tasting drink like an ice cream malt, smoothie, snowball, icee or frozen cappucino.

Thick beverages like this hide the gritty texture of the seeds and also suspend the seeds in the top of the drink so they don't sink to the bottom. If you were to mix your seeds with water or some other purely liquid beverage they would sink and stick to the bottom, making them hard to swallow without having to keep refilling your drink.

For me an ice cream malt works best. I also think the milk in ice cream might help decrease LSA nausea as LSA makes my stomach feel acidic and milk is a base. If I'm eating HBW seeds I always just pack the seed powder in capsules. It's only with MG seeds that I bother mixing the seed powder in a drink.

To minimize the cramps LSA can cause swallow a vasodilating (blood vessel opening) drug such as the health supplement L-Arginine. LSA can cause muscle cramps because it vasoconstricts (closes your blood vessels). Taking a warm bath or exercising might also help open your blood vessels further. And never mix strong stimulants with LSA as stimulants can cause vasoconstriction themselves.

I will make another post soon describing what types of health supplements, herbs, smart drugs and psychedelics I like to combine with LSA to smooth out/enhance/safen the trip. I hope you guys enjoy all my LSA related tips. Glad to help my fellow psychonaut explorers.

By the way, did you know to shamanic tribes like the Aztecs Morning Glories were one of THE most important entheogens (as highly regarded as Peyote, Psilocybe and Salvia divinorum)? They and other tribes (mostly Mexican ones) thought Morning Glories were a gift from the gods and a way for them to directly connect with them. They also felt MG seeds had deep healing powers and could sure illnesses.

IMHO I think certain plant psychedelics like Morning Glories, Psilocybe mushrooms, Peyote, etc. really are meant for mankind to discover and consume and that ingesting them seems to restore our minds and bodies to the natural, pure state we're meant to live in. It's like these entheogens rewire/reprogram us, erasing the mental conditioning and toxins society has forced on us.

#3 tregar

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:41 PM

Thanks The Wizard! Great tips and yes MG was a very important entheogen...according to Jonathan Ott an entire book was written by the Spanish missionairies denouncing the seeds used by the Indians.

Hope everyone enjoys the 10 page paper on morning glory seeds and epimerisation by chemist/researcher peter webster--I have communicated with him personally and he's a very smart guy.

As morninggloryseed has mentioned, Mr. Webster has stirred things up.

Pages 25 to 35 on volume 1...go to Earth Rites Home Page

It is entitled "secret recipes" and was presented at the LSD symposium last year with Dr. Hofmann in attendance for his 100th birthday.

Here is the direct link:

http://earthrites.or....eltane07sm.pdf

Nice artwork too.

The Shamans did not eat the seeds however. They did water extractions exclusively.

The nausea from eating the seeds is very unpleasant and the somatic effects are horrible.

Read towards the end of the paper his experiments with migraine tablets and how he was able to make them psychedelic by hydrolizing them in water with a small amount of ash, then he neutralized the ash with acidic acid to make it palatable.

Eating the migraine tablets had zero psychedelic effects even up to 5 tablets as he has a prescription (for years). Yet when he hydrolized them with water he created an equilibrium state between the ergine/isoergine in the water and they become psychedelic when the water was drunk. The more tablets he hydrolized, the stronger the psychedelic effects.

His theory is that an extra conformation is formed by ergine (LSA) while in the water for an hour or more--A portion of the LSA changes into iso-LSA chair conformation. It just so happens that LSD is potent only as the chair conformation. Comparisons are then made between the activity of the chair conformations vs. the boat conformations. The chair conformation of iso-LSA which is formed by ergine after an hour or more in water is believed by him to have potency since it is locked into this conformation and will not flip back to the inactive boat form.

3 drugs conformations are created in water vs. 2 that are formed normally. This epimerisation happens with all lysergic acid derivatives in solution. The equilibrium between the 3 conformations takes some time to complete about an hour. Then stabilizes. Then it can be taken into the brain to elicit its activity.

I had to read the paper several times to understand it.

The water extraction was the method used by the Shamans for thousands of years...they did not eat the seeds. Eating the seeds is also somatically unpleasant and nauseating and detracts from the psychedelic effects imho.

Hermes had the same problem. No matter how many times he expounded the benefits of a decent well done water extraction, people still insisted on eating the seeds even though this was not the method used since antiquity. Perhaps its better that people eat the seeds and experience nausea and gut wrenching somatic physical discomfort. This way they will stay legal.

#4 righteous

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:07 PM

Tregar said "If the grinder starts to get warm you have to immediately turn it off and let it cool as heat destroys LSA's"

- LSA's are not heat unstable to the point that getting them warm for a few seconds will harm their potency to any significant degree!

I'm not saying that they ought to get super hot or heated for really extensive periods of time, but no substantial loss will occur by having them merely 'warmed' for a minute or so.
One notable LSA (ET) was heated to 75C (Over 165F!!) for four hours according to Shulgin in his book during a reaction and he still got an excellent yield.

I can point out a shitload of documented examples of this kind of thing, and if anyone has anything else to show, I'd love to see that too.

#5 tregar

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:12 PM

I posted that a year ago but no longer believe that heat will destroy it either.

Chlorine, light and oxygen is a different matter though.

right you are righteous.

#6 righteous

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:43 PM

"Chlorine, light and oxygen is a different matter though."

Agreed! UV, while pretty when it glows, seems to be pretty damaging to sensitive compounds....
Take plastic for example- I've had to find plastic sheet to put over some thin film solar panels, as it was much cheaper than glass and easier to ship too.

Turns out that even the most advanced and chemical resistant fluoropolymers etc can not stand 15 years of sun without yellowing. Fiberglass sheet ended up being the way to go, but it will have to be replaced every few years. Strange these plastics can handle sulfuric acid, molten sodium etc, but sunlight wears them out over time............

#7 greenie

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 10:28 PM

i ate morning glory seeds years ago. only one time because although they worked very well, i got sick as shit the next day. funny you should mention martha stewart heavenly blue seeds from k-mart. thats exactly what i ate. It was fine during the trip, only a few cramps tha pot healed. but the next day i was a wreck. guess they were covered in posion huh? lol

#8 Jordan86

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:17 PM

I tried morning glory seeds for the first time Tuesday. I didn't count seeds. I grinded 30 packs of heavenly blue I purchased at wal mart. The packets said they were 400 milligram worth of seed each so that would equal to around 12 grams if the seed company measured correctly. I took the ground seeds and put them in a Wendy's frosty. This may sound strange but I think it actually improved the taste of the frosty, or atleast the texture of it. Ingesting it wasn't bad at all.

I choose a frosty because someone in here suggested that the milk being a base would neutralize the acidity of the seeds and make the nausea better.

I didn't get that nauseous the night that I took the seeds but I completely lost my apetite and the thought of eating grossed me out. I did have mild pains running through the viens of my legs and it hurt to quickly stand up or sit. It was more of a tingling pain than anything. The next day it was sort of like a low intensity throbbing/pulsating type fealing and my legs were very weak it it was a struggle to walk long distance. I didn't sleep at all the night that I took the seeds. The next day I was pretty tired at first but then got over it as the day went on. I had some mild lingering mental effects the next day, I was preoccupied and couldn't focus very well. I'm a university student and went to class Wednesday and I would like loose my concentration in mid sentence as I was taking notes.

As far as the actual experience. It was fun, it wasn't amazing but it did wet my appetite for further exploration.

The main thing I got from it was a heightened awareness. Really small details fascinated me like the oils on peoples skin, the redness of a persons face when it was a little bit flush, the patterns in clothing and the patterns in my friend's painting. I experience some mild euporphia and a big increase in like curiosity/desire to go on a small adventure. I took a three mile walk with a friend, through a neighborhood and into the city a little bit. Differences in light and darkness looked cool. I liked how the street lamps contrasted with the darkness of the sky. Also the distances with how far things were fascinated me including how far the top of my head was to the ground when standing up. It wasn't so much that it seemed further down, but rather I realized just how far down it really was for the first time. I don't know how to explaining. When I was hitting my peak, the floor inside my friends apartment seemed slightly unlevel to me and it was sort of made me nervous walking on it, but in a fun way. And so yeah, that was my experience with morning glory seeds.

Oh the next day, I couldn't eat meat for whatever reason, it completely grossed me out. The smell of it made me gag. I craved fruit a little bit also. Fruit that was juicy, like pineapples and strawberries.

#9 Doctor D

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:45 PM

I took the ground seeds and put them in a Wendy's frosty. This may sound strange but I think it actually improved the taste of the frosty, or atleast the texture of it. Ingesting it wasn't bad at all.


Good idea, the Wendy's frosty. I have enjoyed putting my MG seeds in a nutty icecream flavor, like pistachio or butter pecan, etc. The flavors intermingle nicely.

Your trip sounds about identical to mine. Just some light sensory enhancement, but not much. Compared to mushrooms, not really worth exploring, IMO.

#10 Jordan86

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:09 PM

I haven't tried mushrooms yet. I'm new to the game here. I planned to already start growing but had some issues with living arrangements, I'm moving into a new apartment in may. Also I'm a little busy with school, probably won't be till after this semester is over (may 15th) that I try them but sounds really fun. I located two cow fields fairly near by. I plan on going through the fields looking for mushrooms, and also to start growing my own. I'm not entirely comfortable with going through someone else's field so I would like to get to growing my own for my mushroom source soon but I want some at the start of summer also.

Morning Glory seeds have sparked my interest in hallucinogens, especially mushrooms further.

#11 SpiralFree

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:48 PM

I think people overthink the process. A FOAF can vouch that American Seed is a great brand.

A FOAF only lightly ground up the seeds, not as well as he should have, exposed them to light and oxygen for a while, left them in the bag to long, and still got closed eye visuals and "LSD" like reactions to music/light.

This is without lowering the Ph of the water as well.

I think the KISS rule when applied to MG Seeds is the best.

#12 The Wizard

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 03:08 PM

I consider it important that one get a really nice coffee grinder as the pricier higher tech ones will grind your seeds much faster long before the machine can get hot. My cheap old grinder took so long to grind HBW and MG that I had to keep turning it off to let it cool down. My new Mr. Coffee grinder grinds MG seeds to a really fine powder in only a min. You guys should always grind the seeds as fine as humanly possible as the finer the better the LSA's will absorb into you.

I wonder how my American Seed MG's will compare to Burpee. It would be nice if there were websites that sold fresh MG's harvested in Mexico in the regions where MG's have been historically used by tribes. I bet the seeds they ingested there were a LOT more potent than the seeds we American ingest nowadays.

If any of you get effects from MG's that pale in comparison to Psilocybe you either did too low a dose of MG's, got weak seeds, prepared them wrong, had the wrong expectations, have an extremely high tolerance to psychedelics or are used to really high dosages of insanely potent Mushrooms like the Thai ones. In my experience 25 grams of Heavenly Blues can easily compete with most street bought indoor grown Mushrooms.

Before any of you give up on LSA try preloading on 3-4 grams of Syrian Rue or 300 mg of Moclobemide 1-2 hrs before your MG/HBW trip as the MAO inhibition of either of these drugs will make your seeds VASTLY stronger, more euphoric and longer acting. My first HBW/Rue combination reminded me of people's descriptions of Ayahuasca and Salvia divinorum. Suffice to say I got extremely spaced out and disoriented, but only in the most pleasant of ways :)

#13 spiralingsky

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:43 AM

funny this conversation was made because i litterally just got done extracting LSA from HBW seeds i got from Iamshaman.com. Very nice seeds if you really want good quallity, seeds for a low price and shit load are the best when you shop on line. you can get them from all sorts of crazy places, mine coming from india, are very potent and really pretty if you wanted to grow them.

The thing is.....
the extracting experiment i did was/is really effective, but kindof hard because the end porduct becomes a gell or gelly past of LSA(glows really nicley:loveeyes:) but im stumped because i don't really know how to fully turn this into an a full liquid, with out dameging the extract. I've been searching for people to talk to about this subject for weeks now and it would rock if any one might have a clue of a soft liquid that would mix nicely with pure LSA so i can drop it!

Any other advise or subjects to cinverce...i'm down!

#14 Shadowlord

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:39 PM

funny this conversation was made because i litterally just got done extracting LSA from HBW seeds i got from Iamshaman.com. Very nice seeds if you really want good quallity, seeds for a low price and shit load are the best when you shop on line. you can get them from all sorts of crazy places, mine coming from india, are very potent and really pretty if you wanted to grow them.

The thing is.....
the extracting experiment i did was/is really effective, but kindof hard because the end porduct becomes a gell or gelly past of LSA(glows really nicley:loveeyes:) but im stumped because i don't really know how to fully turn this into an a full liquid, with out dameging the extract. I've been searching for people to talk to about this subject for weeks now and it would rock if any one might have a clue of a soft liquid that would mix nicely with pure LSA so i can drop it!

Any other advise or subjects to cinverce...i'm down!


Ask tregar or look up tregar's posts and threads. Tons of knowledge on LSA MG seeds. The Wizard is another one here who is very knowledgeable on the subject.

#15 purefficiency

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:43 PM

Last night I tried 175 heavenly blue seeds (7.5g) each with a friend. I got the seeds from ebay for cheap. Just ground them and soaked in 1 cup of water brought to pH 4 with lemon juice. left the two doses in 2 water bottles in fridge and shook every 10-15 mins for just over an hour.
Had a decent buzzed and a six pack helped kick it along ( plus lots of pot). Very enjoyable once your stomach settles out from all the acid solution.
We even added sugar after filtering through coffee filters, which made a slick lemonaid.
Next time I'm taking 9.5g and eating a piece of bread right after to soak up the acidic liquid.
Time to plant a few seeds so as to harvest plenty fresh seeds for the next year.





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