I'm curious if anyone has done any scientific method labs on distilled versus reverse osmosis/deionized. I've found literature stating that RO filters generate wonky water molecules but I have yet to find any scientific papers documenting this. I'm curious if cubies give a damn about "malformed water molecules."
I'm guessing no measurable difference will be noticed, even if using cloned tissue for innoculation but thats why I was asking for the scientific method. =]
Distilled vs. RODI
Started By
elixir
, May 14 2005 12:55 AM
8 replies to this topic
#2
the_other_chap
-
- Expired Member
- 919 posts
The Whelk of Reason
Posted 14 May 2005 - 01:16 AM
I'm not surprised, it's complete rubbish!I've found literature stating that RO filters generate wonky water molecules but I have yet to find any scientific papers documenting this.
I've never conducted controlled experiments, but I usually use RO water. I've also used tapwater & distilled and never noticed any difference.
#3
jjoj
-
- Expired Member
- 127 posts
Mycophage
Posted 14 May 2005 - 02:16 AM
uhh, a water molecule is a water molecule - H20
anything different and it wouldn't be water anymore. unless we're talking about heavy water or something, but then again that's highly unlikely.
anything different and it wouldn't be water anymore. unless we're talking about heavy water or something, but then again that's highly unlikely.
#4
the_other_chap
-
- Expired Member
- 919 posts
The Whelk of Reason
Posted 14 May 2005 - 02:28 AM
Even then it's still H2O, it just has hydrogen atoms with an extra neutron in the nuclues (making them heavier!)uhh, a water molecule is a water molecule - H20
unless we're talking about heavy water or something
It's still water, and its chemical behaviour is exactly the same as "ordinary" water.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Heavy_water
#5
taoistshredder
-
- Banned Member
- 550 posts
Former Member
Posted 14 May 2005 - 04:51 AM
"In 1934, Norsk Hydro built the first commercial heavy water plant"
That's a pretty crazy coincidence; hydro comes from Greek hudro - as if this guy was destined for wetness...
That's a pretty crazy coincidence; hydro comes from Greek hudro - as if this guy was destined for wetness...
#6
shedthemonkey
-
- Expired Member
- 1,455 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 14 May 2005 - 12:41 PM
Elixer
We use both RO and distilled water at the place I work. Each water molecule is EXACTLY the same, but you can't think of the liquid that comes out of your tap, or even the distilled water bottle as PURE water.
PURE anything is an ideal. It does not exist. Pure Good, Pure Evil, Pure Love, Pure Crystals (which is very close to my RL work) are all an ideal of the absolute ultimate of some quality. In real life, we can get very close but never to perfection.
Look in a chemical catalog and the best you can do for some chemicals is 85% and others you can get 99.99999 purity. What does this mean? And why is this crazy monkey talking about purity when you asked about distilled vs Reverse Osmosis water?
Because there is something most people don't concider about liquids...that unless they are in a vacuum, they will dissolve little bits of the atmosphere that they reside in. Not to mention other contaminants that exist already in the liquid in tiny amounts. So, that water you have in the cleanroom in a pyrex beaker that you think of as pure? It contains parts per million (sometimes parts per thousand) of nitrogen (N2), Oxygen, (O2), Argon, Neon, Carbon Dioxide, Methane (thanks Dooby...jeeze) and every single elemental gas that makes up the atmosphere of this little soup of a planet. What this translates into is a shift in the Ph of the water depending on how much other crap is dissolved in it. Not to mention that that nice pyrex beaker will sluff off a few ppm of silica into the water too, even at room temperature, but much faster as the temperature of the liquid is increased. Plastics do it too. Any container will become part of the contents...WE ARE ALL ONE...even in chemistry.
So, back to what distilled water is.
If you turn water into steam and then let it collect on a cold surface (say a coil) and drip down into a jar, then MOST of the NOT-Water is left in the original boiling liquid. This purifies the water pretty well, but again, there are still some dissalved gasses, perhaps more so than in RO water. Very pure and good for most chemistry if you watch the Ph and keep it pretty neutral, is very good water for plants and mushies...especially Karo-water for spore or clones growth. This monkey gets carmelization with tap and bottled "drinking" water but not with distilled, even at 15psi. :)
RO, or Reverse Osmosis, pushes liquid through a series of filters that block molecules above a certain size from being able to fit through the little tiny holes. This means that RO water contains a LOT of molecules that are the same size or smaller than the H20 molecule which is shaped like a little boomerang with the Oxygen in the middle of two Hydrogens. Its a good thing that most stuff is bigger than water, but there are a lot of things that RO will not take out, especially the simple carbon compounds (like CO and CO2 and elemental Carbon) because RO processes usually use activated charcoal (carbon) to snag a bunch of the bigger reactive ions before they all fall through the seive into the water jar. RO is good enough to drink and for many chemical processes, but is not as "pure" as Distilled. You often hear of "DI" water too which stands for DeIonized, which is partly what the carbon does but can also be made from other chemical processes which makes water by trapping all the ions in precipitate and then conditioning the water so it doesn't have a strong ionic charge through some more magic chemistry.
So, in my humble opinion, distilled is the best we can get, tho for brf jars or just drinking or watering plants, you can use anything not overly contaminated by bacteria or filled with trich spores.
But, no, water is water is water as far as the H2O molecule is concerned. That stuff out of your tap is MOSTLY water. :p
We use both RO and distilled water at the place I work. Each water molecule is EXACTLY the same, but you can't think of the liquid that comes out of your tap, or even the distilled water bottle as PURE water.
PURE anything is an ideal. It does not exist. Pure Good, Pure Evil, Pure Love, Pure Crystals (which is very close to my RL work) are all an ideal of the absolute ultimate of some quality. In real life, we can get very close but never to perfection.
Look in a chemical catalog and the best you can do for some chemicals is 85% and others you can get 99.99999 purity. What does this mean? And why is this crazy monkey talking about purity when you asked about distilled vs Reverse Osmosis water?
Because there is something most people don't concider about liquids...that unless they are in a vacuum, they will dissolve little bits of the atmosphere that they reside in. Not to mention other contaminants that exist already in the liquid in tiny amounts. So, that water you have in the cleanroom in a pyrex beaker that you think of as pure? It contains parts per million (sometimes parts per thousand) of nitrogen (N2), Oxygen, (O2), Argon, Neon, Carbon Dioxide, Methane (thanks Dooby...jeeze) and every single elemental gas that makes up the atmosphere of this little soup of a planet. What this translates into is a shift in the Ph of the water depending on how much other crap is dissolved in it. Not to mention that that nice pyrex beaker will sluff off a few ppm of silica into the water too, even at room temperature, but much faster as the temperature of the liquid is increased. Plastics do it too. Any container will become part of the contents...WE ARE ALL ONE...even in chemistry.
So, back to what distilled water is.
If you turn water into steam and then let it collect on a cold surface (say a coil) and drip down into a jar, then MOST of the NOT-Water is left in the original boiling liquid. This purifies the water pretty well, but again, there are still some dissalved gasses, perhaps more so than in RO water. Very pure and good for most chemistry if you watch the Ph and keep it pretty neutral, is very good water for plants and mushies...especially Karo-water for spore or clones growth. This monkey gets carmelization with tap and bottled "drinking" water but not with distilled, even at 15psi. :)
RO, or Reverse Osmosis, pushes liquid through a series of filters that block molecules above a certain size from being able to fit through the little tiny holes. This means that RO water contains a LOT of molecules that are the same size or smaller than the H20 molecule which is shaped like a little boomerang with the Oxygen in the middle of two Hydrogens. Its a good thing that most stuff is bigger than water, but there are a lot of things that RO will not take out, especially the simple carbon compounds (like CO and CO2 and elemental Carbon) because RO processes usually use activated charcoal (carbon) to snag a bunch of the bigger reactive ions before they all fall through the seive into the water jar. RO is good enough to drink and for many chemical processes, but is not as "pure" as Distilled. You often hear of "DI" water too which stands for DeIonized, which is partly what the carbon does but can also be made from other chemical processes which makes water by trapping all the ions in precipitate and then conditioning the water so it doesn't have a strong ionic charge through some more magic chemistry.
So, in my humble opinion, distilled is the best we can get, tho for brf jars or just drinking or watering plants, you can use anything not overly contaminated by bacteria or filled with trich spores.
But, no, water is water is water as far as the H2O molecule is concerned. That stuff out of your tap is MOSTLY water. :p
Attached Thumbnails
#7
jjoj
-
- Expired Member
- 127 posts
Mycophage
Posted 14 May 2005 - 01:08 PM
actually, i think the "chemical behaviour" of deuterium is a little different than normal H2O. otherwise, why wouldn't they use regular water in nuclear reactors?
#8
elixir
-
- Expired Member
- 126 posts
Mycophage
Posted 15 May 2005 - 10:17 PM
I'm not worried about purity but I was curious if crystalline structures of RO water actually affect celluar respiration. Guess not =P
#9
the_other_chap
-
- Expired Member
- 919 posts
The Whelk of Reason
Posted 16 May 2005 - 12:59 AM
Nope, the chemical behaviour is exactly the same, but the physical behaviour is slightly different at the nuclear level. The only difference in the "real world" is that it's a little heavier. :)actually, i think the "chemical behaviour" of deuterium is a little different than normal H2O. otherwise, why wouldn't they use regular water in nuclear reactors?
http://en.wikipedia....utron_moderator
