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Spawn bag questions [merged]


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#21 shobimono

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 02:35 PM

yes that's what I said to do. "...then wrap with aluminum foil and pc"
pc = pressure cook

#22 OZ

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 03:11 PM

if i was to do that, i would cut out a rectangle in the bag, and then impulse seal some tyvek to cover the hole, or even use some kind of heat resistant tape

#23 MurCurY

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 03:53 PM

what kind of plastic could you use with an impact sealer that you can pressure cook without it melting everywhere? Could you use say...a ziploc bag? or would it have to be of specific material and thickness?

#24 bluehelix

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 02:18 AM

MurCurY, all spawn bags are melted with impulse sealers and then pressure cooked. Save up and get some spawn bags. Stop trying to use turkey bags; you are just making your life hard.

#25 Fungusaurus

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 06:24 AM

Save up and get some spawn bags. Stop trying to use turkey bags; you are just making your life hard.


Really? Turkey bags make my life more easy and less expensive.

#26 Hippie3

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:06 AM

what kind of plastic could you use with an impact sealer that you can pressure cook without it melting everywhere? Could you use say...a ziploc bag? or would it have to be of specific material and thickness?


some plastics will melt at the temps seen inside a PC,
esp. if the plastic touches the metal pot itself.
i believe you need plastic that is recycle code 4 at a minimum.
ziplocks get very soft, and i cannot recommend pc'ing them.
they can be steamed at normal pressure if care is taken to ensure
they don't touch the metal sides of the pot.

#27 Hippie3

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:08 AM

http://mycotopia.net...html?1037151194

#28 bluehelix

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 12:02 PM

Really? Turkey bags make my life more easy and less expensive.


Is that right? Huh, last time I checked, turkey bags were about three or four times as expensive as the spawn bags I bought. A large spawn bag with filter patch runs about 35 cents. A turkey bag runs about a $1 and then you got the PVC and the polyfil material. The only reason I can imagine using a turkey bag is if you happen to have some around that you don't know what to do with or if you, for some reason, need a bag larger than a spawn bag. But with a large spawn bag already taking at least 3 hours to properly sterilize in a pressure cooker, I can't imagine why you'd want anything larger.

#29 wayback

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:53 AM

Last year the few spawn bag attempt I made all turned bad. So, this year I have an Ion Generator from FMRC and am planning to clean a table top, seal it off somewhat and do a jar to bag transfer.

My question stems around two things: I think I tried to put too much into the spawn bags last go a round, and could only fit one into a All American 921 cooker. Are the bags much like the grain jars, only filling half way. And secondly, if I reduce the amount in the bags to half, how many would safely stack into my cooker, and what is the best way to keep moisture from seeping into the filters if I attempt a multi-bag pcing?

Please advise.

#30 wayback

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:56 PM

Oh, forgot to add these are large bags from Sporeworks. Thanks.

#31 wayback

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:38 PM

Last year I did very well with G2G glove boxed grain and birdseed, but when I tried to expand to spawn bags I ran into contams. Naturally I lost some jars in my G2G's to contams, but I lost all the bags.

So I figured this year with a FMRC inionzer and a glove box I'd be set, but no. I've performed two transfers, one with birdseed, and another with rye grass seed, three bags each time, and all have failed.

Another thing I believed might have been behind last years failures was excess moisture, so this year I even went as far as to strain the birdseed all day, and used Rodgers rye grass tek to the letter.

Unless anyone with repeated spawn bag success can tell me what I'm doing, then it's back to jars, as I got plenty of them. Still discovering some over colozined jars from last year. Open to suggestions.

#32 hogwild

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:55 PM

just break down your g2g transfer step by step. Make sure your sterilizing your glovebox and you might try wiping down the outsides of the bags with alcohol too in case there is something on the bag.... Make sure your sterilizing your bags properly.... maybe try different grain... there are a few things that you can look into.

#33 Guest_dial8_*

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:57 PM

Can you give us some more details, please? Need to know how you prepped the bags as well as the media (seed, grain) preparation, pc time, as well as temps and the environmental conditions. How are the bags vented, and are those vents covered with filters?
And, as mentioned above, we need to know how exactly you did the tranfers

#34 wayback

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 06:25 PM

Medium sized Mycobags that I sealed after cooled with an impulse sealer.

I prepared the birdseed by soaking overnight, rinsing very well, straing all day, then quickly towel drying and adding a little verm to absorb extra moisture.The rye grass I did per Rodgers coffee tek, and used a little less water than usual.

After PCing I checked the moisture content of each batch to see if they looked wet. Both looked fine, but water seems to still form in the bags a few days to a week later, then comes Mr. Green. Of course, a couple have fromed on the tops where one might think that air exchange could be a possibility.

I'm baffled, but am going to try again this weekend. Fortunately, I did a 6 qt rye grass exchange last week that has managed to keep my spawn stock level, but I can only do that once again. Well, I do have 5 other strains in jars that can eventyally be G2G-ed, but summer is allmost here, when my contam rate hits the roof. Must get this to work. Only 85 or so bags left. Ah!!!

#35 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 08:21 PM

I think a very important factor here is how long they were PC'd. I have success with spawn bags that are PC'd for 2 hours (that's five bags in a AA941, or three in a 921). My bags are the large ones available from Stamets, and my five bags of WBS in a 941 is about 18 pounds of grain (measured dry). These amounts take longer to sterilize. I've used several different substrate formulas that all have worked (they also have all not worked, but success is the norm).

You might want to leave a "blank" as well. PC one the same as all the others and do not spawn it to see if it craps out too. Blanks really help track down trouble at every stage of the process.

You mentioned using a glove box and not sealing the bags until they are cool. A cooling bag or jar draws air in as it cools, so unless your glove box is very, very, very clean it's likely stuff got sucked in that way. And how clean is your impulse sealer?

A last note: I recently did a LC to WBS in quarts. I cased and fruited some of the quarts in a tray and took the healthiest looking ones for spawning spawn bags. All the bags failed. All the trays fruited. I tried a variation where I went LC to WBS quarts to more WBS quarts. All of the second generation quarts contam'd after their second shaking. All were transferred in front of a HEPA flow hood. They looked great after the first shake, but did not recover from the second. All blanks showed no contams. I concluded there was contamination endemic to the syringe I used that is not aggressive but if given a chance can take over, and looks pinkish-purple when it matures. This was verified by a LC from that syringe clouding up after amost a week. I made the syringe myself so it's all my fault. All BRF cakes from that syringe fruit wonderfully (multispore, not LC), but all eventually get the purple fuzz (initially it appears on aborts, then the cake). All G2G transfers from that syringe failed if spawned to a 2nd generation.

Because of that, no matter how I intend to use a spore syringe, I now shoot a sample into a LC jar at the time I make the syringe and wait to see if something shows up. Easier than a petri dish to test them out with. A few days of patience could have saved many pounds of grain and the associated waste of prep labor.

The absolute worst job in mycology is cleaning gear and tossing out a large amount of perfectly prepared substrate that "shit the bed" before it ever got a chance to produce.:cry: Clean your house well and try, try again. Mushrooms love to test our committment to them.

#36 SharkieJones

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 10:14 PM

How long are you PCing them for?

#37 wayback

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 05:57 AM

The last batch I PCed for an hour and a half, three bags in a 921. I used less grain than the last year, thinking that maybe too much spawn caused the increased chance of contams. Also, I will sterlized my impulse sealer the next go around, and I do wipe the jars with alochol prior to use, but have not done that with the bags yet.

Anymore suggestions are more than wellcome.

#38 Guest_dial8_*

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:25 PM

TV makes a very good point. Depending on the number of bags and the amount of grain/seed in each bag you may need to increase the pc times. Also, the way you stack them can effect the effectiveness of pc'ing. Try pc'ing for 2 hours, and try to leave a little room between each bag.

#39 python

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:49 PM

condensation is probably forming from a change in temperature.............try letting things heat up slowly and cool down slowly(with this u can seal bags beforehand)..........higher incubation temps can also cause this excess moisture...........

IMO there should not be a problem with air exchange as the filter-patch is there for this purpose........

as far as the grains you can try pcing for longer periods of time, or if you are using the same batch of rye.....you might consider trying another batch........

#40 wayback

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 07:55 PM

Last week I tried to do a LC except I left the top open to innoculate,however, my real aim is to preform G2G's with gains or birdseed from a fully inocculated jar. I want to expand my spawn range, without having all kinds of jars lying around the house.

I have some birdseed soaking as of tonight, anymore suggestions would be wellcome for a G2G opportunity. Thanks much.




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