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Sunflower Seed/ Trash experiment


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#1 Myc

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:42 PM

The purpose of this experiment was to determine if skimming the dead seeds, hulls, and sunflower seeds out of WBS is worth the effort.

Three jars were used.
One with "cleaned" WBS and two made up of the trash skimmed off during the soaking process.
The jars were pc'd at the same time, allowed to cool, and innoculated with an equal amount of multi-spore solution.
They were then allowed an equal amount of colonization time in one location with environmental factors being the same for each jar.
The experiment was discontinued as soon as one jar was completely colonized.

Multi-Spore.JPG

Here are the results.
I'll allow the pics to speak for themselves.

IMG_1448.JPG
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#2 mycobri

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 10:42 PM

looks like skimming is well worth it

cool experiment
thanks for posting the results :thumbup:

#3 mycoking

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 02:57 AM

I beg to differ - I have saved the sunflower seeds and have g2g several times with the same results - the sunflower seeds are usually done in 1/2 the time as the rest of the wbs and for some reason they seem to fruit much faster on their own if left in the jars

#4 Dank Side Of The Shroom

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:58 AM

nothing ever grew on the sunflower seeds alone for us either. good test myco. and dude that grows on sunflower seeds alone u got pics of them growing?

#5 Hippie3

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:04 AM

I beg to differ - I have saved the sunflower seeds and have g2g several times with the same results - the sunflower seeds are usually done in 1/2 the time as the rest of the wbs and for some reason they seem to fruit much faster on their own if left in the jars

seeing
is
believing.
where, pray tell, are your pix ?
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#6 Hippie3

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:06 AM

The purpose of this experiment was to determine if skimming the dead seeds, hulls, and sunflower seeds out of WBS is worth the effort.

Three jars were used.
One with "cleaned" WBS and two made up of the trash skimmed off during the soaking process.
The jars were pc'd at the same time, allowed to cool, and innoculated with an equal amount of multi-spore solution.
They were then allowed an equal amount of colonization time in one location with environmental factors being the same for each jar.
The experiment was discontinued as soon as one jar was completely colonized.

Multi-Spore.JPG

Here are the results.
I'll allow the pics to speak for themselves.

IMG_1448.JPG

great experiment, Myc.
now try it using mixtures,
say 10 % sunflower,
then 20, 30, 40, etc.
if it's consistent then
we should see that
fewer sunflwr seeds = faster, better colonization.

#7 Myc

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 03:22 PM

great experiment, Myc.
now try it using mixtures,
say 10 % sunflower,
then 20, 30, 40, etc.
if it's consistent then
we should see that
fewer sunflwr seeds = faster, better colonization.


Can do!
I've already scoped out some pure sunflower seed for birds.
Pretty cheap and this seems like a good idea to me too.
The results should be interesting.
I'll keep using multi-spore innoculant since - though the pics really don't show it - there was no visible spore germination in either of the "trash" jars.

#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 06:47 AM

Very nice experiment. I've been wanting to try it, but life's been rearranging my priorities again so I'm glad to see someone actually going to the trouble. :bow:

#9 Freaky

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 07:37 PM

Yes, this is great to see, thanks Myc!

One problem I have though, and hopefully you'll be able to replicate. Because of the multi-spore inoculation I can only go 85% convinced on the outcome of this experiment.

I know, I know, I'm being an ass, but really, for me to be 100% convinced, it'll have to be inoculated from an isolate lc or something. Genetic dispersion in the multi spore is my only reasoning behind this.

I also wonder what would happen if you g2g to the other 2 jars to see which colonizes faster, or if it colonizes at all.

:rasta: I am glad to see this experiment though!

#10 Myc

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 10:32 PM

I know, I know, I'm being an ass, but really, for me to be 100% convinced, it'll have to be inoculated from an isolate lc or something. Genetic dispersion in the multi spore is my only reasoning behind this.

I also wonder what would happen if you g2g to the other 2 jars to see which colonizes faster, or if it colonizes at all.

:rasta: I am glad to see this experiment though!


Great minds think alike!
My intent is to transfer the colonized jar equally into the two uncolonized trash jars to prove/ disprove a statement made by mycoking earlier in this thread. :)

As for the healthy skepticism, I kinda thought the same thing. MS is unreliable and I don't mind constructive criticism.
Perhaps if I perform the next test using agar transfers?
I don't have any LC ready to go but could start some from some untested isolates I'm working on if that would be better.
Gimme some ideas here.

Your input is appreciated!

#11 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 10:50 PM

does your mix contain hemp seed?
im curious if the hemp seed alone would do well as a 'stand-alone' grain spawn. by itself.
You see,
i have a feeling they (hemp), like flax, and sunflower, contain too much oils/fats,
and maybe other things that are beneficial in SMALL proportions,
but as a stand-alone grain for use by itself, being way overkill in those areas.
moderation hehe theres a point of diminishing returns, i s'pose, when dealin with high-oil content seed.
this could possibly be the reason the pure sf seed dont colonize worth a shit. :confused:
milo, and millet, are in there. im sure. and many, including an old grow partner used to use the same,
by themselves, as a stand-alone grainspawn, and felt them to be superior to wbs, despite the cost involved-
as organic bulk millet is pricier then wbs, in bulk,
but no worries of fungicides and filth, having to wash the wbs vigourously, boil, w/e!
sooooo.... that in iteself, may make it worth it, for some. :) millet may be the 'happy medium' between the hemp and sunflower seed types and other things like rye berries, seed, etc.
maybe someone will take this post and run with it :) if not, well, fuckem :) hehe

be weLL :)

#12 mycoking

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:03 AM

Quote:
seeing is believing. where, pray tell, are your pix ?

Sorry I don't have a digi cam. It is worth saying though that transfers have been of g2g clones, and I actually break the full size qt. jars to fruit them anfter they start pinning - they do contam fairly quick and the flushes aren't that great so instead of just letting it go down the drain it's worth it for the 2-4 dry g that I get each considering the jar is only worth about $.75.

#13 roc

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:17 PM

I beg to differ - I have saved the sunflower seeds and have g2g several times with the same results - the sunflower seeds are usually done in 1/2 the time as the rest of the wbs and for some reason they seem to fruit much faster on their own if left in the jars

I beg to differ... sunflower seeds are always strained from my soaking due to contam problems.
I learned this years ago and have not had problems since ridding my wbs of sunflower seeds. The squirrels luv it when old Roc preps wbs!
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#14 wildburr

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:33 PM

Nice experiment. I'm definitely going to start removing the sunflower seeds when I do WBS.
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#15 Freaky

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:53 PM

Great minds think alike!
My intent is to transfer the colonized jar equally into the two uncolonized trash jars to prove/ disprove a statement made by mycoking earlier in this thread. :)

As for the healthy skepticism, I kinda thought the same thing. MS is unreliable and I don't mind constructive criticism.
Perhaps if I perform the next test using agar transfers?
I don't have any LC ready to go but could start some from some untested isolates I'm working on if that would be better.
Gimme some ideas here.

Your input is appreciated!


Thanks for the quality experiment Myc! I appreciate your work with it.
If you want to test your isolate lc, make up a few pf jars to test it. Then you'll know if the isolate lc is good, then you can shoot to test again on your wbs/sunflower experiment.

I know its a lot of work and stuff, testing and experimenting. I truly am thankful for folks who are willing to work this out for the rest of us!
:bow:

#16 Myc

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 10:11 AM

Thanks for the input Freaky!
This hobby is all about experimentation for me so I really like doing this kind of stuff. It sometimes seems that precedures in teks are more based upon superstition than scientific method.

As for testing isolates, I've got a great new method:
Isolate on agar
transfer to pint grain jars
grain to pasteurized compost
compost is laid out in those small single-serve cake containers from the grocery store.
Works like a dream for small "bulk" grows!

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1457.JPG
  • IMG_1449.JPG


#17 eatyualive

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:18 AM

nice. yeah i always leave that stuff in the mix, never had any problems with it.....and i get the real dirty wbs with birdkote on it..

#18 Freaky

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:47 AM

Real nice plan Myc! Those containers make for great small bulk projects.


:thumbup:

#19 Myc

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:12 PM

So it appears as though my results support mycoking's statement(s).

IMG_1482.JPG

The jars were originally innoculated with MS solution on 6/11
Shaken once
Were fully colonized by 7/4
Transfer was made on 7/11
Jars shaken once
Nearly fully colonized today 7/18
Interesting

I'm not sure what I've proven here though
No controls for yeild comparisons, etc.

So it's looks like spore won't germinate on the trash
But the mycelium will colonize at least the outside of the sunflower seeds.
Will fire up the flowhood and take some cross sections of the grains and sunflower seeds for comparison in a couple of days.

#20 mycoking

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 02:13 AM

Usually see pins forming about the same time most other equal size wbs jars (-the seeds) have finished colonizing if cooked/knocked at the same time. Granted the flushes are significantly less and the final products are a fraction of the size as straight wbs -the crap.




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