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Panaeolus (Copelandia) cyanescens


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#41 waylitjim

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 08:34 PM

overlay? thats what i assumed, but now that u mention it blue, the casing does look awful shiny.


I don't think overlay is a negative issue with Goiliath. The mycelium is so thin and fragile, that the "overlay" is really just a protective layer which locks in moisture on the casing layer. If anything Pan overlay is a good thing, the primordia have no problems breaking thru...especially Goliath ;)

#42 bluehelix

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 08:36 PM

pcsillypj, the pan cyans mycelium was a little different than I had seen before too. Each mushroom species I've tried in LC has a slightly different character in LC. Since I stir mine continously, what you get might be a lot different if you only stir daily. Of the types I've tried, some mycelium forms snow, other mycelium forms balls, and some a mix of the two. This one formed balls with light snow, but the balls were soft, almost like jello, and not spherical, like I've seen before, but rather more squarish (as you can see).

#43 panic

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 09:32 PM

i seem to recall golly had a strange bubbly thingy in his casing. has anyone else run into this? did anybody figure out what it was?

#44 bluehelix

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 01:55 PM

I found out the strain I have in Amazonian Pan Cyans. In less than 24 hours after injection (about 18), I see evidence of growth at some points. That puts this mushroom as fast as any cube I've seen once in composted manure and rye grass seed.

#45 bluehelix

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:08 PM

OOPS! I meant Australian. :eek:

#46 Guest_xxxsevxxx_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:27 PM

think that not knowing what type of mycilia to isolate is a lot of the problem with falure among new coplandia growers. as far as rye grass seed as a fruiting substrate i whouldnt use it . it actully makes the myciluim stick togather to well . leaving you with clumps (might of misunderstood you). i also only shake once ,maybe twice . how about you guys? if your new to pans id stick with straw cased with standerd peat/verm/lime spawned with rye or wbs. keeping things as simple as you can is the way to go .waylits tek is sound as they come . i dont go multispore or use lc for pans , but thats just me .seems a lot of peeps have great sucess with it . i personally use the fluffy/cottony over the linear mycilia . when i do use LC i pc the 10ml dextrose water in the syrenges and then scracth a isolated petri and suck up a bit of flesh and let those germ for a week or two . if you guys remeber the post of the flcy myc fluffy Vs linear . the fluffy fruited where the linear never colonized the trays fully , and eventully contamed. damn its good to be back .
later my brothers and sisters.
later VII

#47 waylitjim

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:46 PM

Good to see you back in action Sev, :)
The trays above are multispore > BRF> horse manure.
Isolating strains is indeed a good way, but not the only way.
I feel that any spawn is fine for Pan cyans. Whether it's rye berries,
rye grass seed, wbs, or BRF, the important part is the bulk sub, not the grain.

#48 bluehelix

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:19 PM

The fruit out substrate cannot easily fail I think. Here it is:

6.5 pound compost made for mushrooms (agar's patented stuff)
2 pound WBS
2 pound rye grass seed
2 cups Stevia leaf (shown to increase potency)
1/8 cup black mustard (high fat source)

As you can see, the rye grass seed is a small part of the mix, and I have total confidence it will work very well. It already is; 24 hours after innoculation, I can see many points of growth.

#49 Guest_dial8_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:47 PM

You dropped a bomb on me , baby! Those are sooooo bad ass.I will post pics as soon as I get home and start growing these babies. I can only hope that they look half as nice as yours!:bow:

#50 Guest_lost_onabbey_rd_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:19 PM

so seven.. your saying you don't use any poo at all in yours? just straw cased in peat/verm?
LOSt

#51 waylitjim

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 11:44 PM

Straw and manure can both be used, they each work well independently, or mixed together. I've tried both, and prefer properly prepared horse manure. I pretty sure VII uses straight straw, and with very good results. Last I heard his casing mix was 60/40 compost & verm.

#52 Guest_xxxsevxxx_*

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 03:14 AM

waylit is 100% . i belive in keeping it simple . after you have some good grows and a couple of good strains cloned throw some munure into the mix . i also like to add some compost are munure to the casing . i just push the plain o straw and peat verm because its a pretty clean starting material and its hard to contam it . where the extra nutes add to the risk of contams thats just not worth risking those first few trys .waylits tek is a damn good one .
later VII

#53 papashroom

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 04:45 PM

Way: How many cakes to how much casing material do you use? What type of humidifyer do you use and on what settings(low,med,high)?

#54 waylitjim

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 05:36 PM

The humidifier is a Vicks Coolmist - Model V400
which runs thruout the day. Whenever the RH drops
below 85% it turns on and stays on untill the RH hits 95%.
3 PF cakes were crumbled and layered into each tray.
The compost is finely sifted aged horse manure and
the casing layer was applied about 1/4 inch deep.

#55 bluehelix

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 08:52 PM

I recently had a very rapid development of Goliath liquid culture. The LC was done in only 48 hours! I had expected to see the same rapid development once I injected it into a sterile spawn bag of compost substrate, but the grain is very frail in the compost. On day 3 it seems to have covered most of the substrate but is so fine and whispy that I wonder if it's contamination I am seeing or actual mycelium. It looks almost nothing like the Ausi mycelium did. What do you think?

#56 bluehelix

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:16 AM

Just a followup on my post here. The Goliath mycelium seems to cover the substrate very quickly, but it takes about a week to really develop well. I will soon been writing up a grow log regarding the Goliath, especially in comparison to the Ausi Pan Cyans. The mycelium is totally different, much more whispy. I wonder if they are weaker in potency too.

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 06:15 AM

With enough time you could search threw each verities substrain and find a nice uniform size that was equal in size and over all look. With good casing care you can get some massive flushes from all the cyans. like I was saying in another thread awhile back about how some of the craziest looking mycelia on agar changes looks and start to finds its rich in the new substrate such as rye for instance . Agar -to rye will change the growth and look of the mycelia. And when the rye is a 100%. I myself wait only a 3 or 4 day after 100% where a lot of the teks say to wait a week or two so it thickens up the mycelia. but in my experience the week wait improves the thin spots imp 2 weeks causes it to contam at a rate of about 60%-80% keep in mind the above study was 20 trays over the season . I checked with the text I wrote so the percentage was stonermated so give me a margin of error of 10% .myself I wait max 3 days after full col. Once the grain spawn hits the straw it metamorphism into what its meant to look like. In the process ripping threw the whole tray, like a blob eating everything in its path. These would be a good time lapse mushroom for videos Also I see a lot of bear spots on folks who just started the pans and I sometimes wonder if there over doing the pasteurizing in the processes. There by killing most if not all the good micro flora that promotes healthy uniform flushes. I make mine stand in lines like little soldiers loll . just a random thought
later VII

#58 shobimono

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 09:12 AM

Using Waylit's tek, the containers with poo are pc'ed so I would have to guess that there are no beneficial bacteria left after that process.
Foaf added a center hole in the lid of the containers to see if she could get a more even flush than what she is seeing here in this pic.

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#59 bluehelix

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 12:21 PM

I do not believe in beneficial bacteria in relation to cubensis or Pan Cyans. I have no proof of that personally, and as the trays I've done are denser than any other's I have seen, I don't feel like anyone else has some information that I don't.

I did not mean to leave the impression that my Goliath trays weren't going to be fine. I suspect the flushes will be as good if not better than any seen here on mycotopia for Goliath because I am very experienced in growing, and that's the way it usually turns out. It's just that the mycelium is different than Ausi was for me personally. It seems to follow different rules.

In liquid culture, for example, the Goliath is actually faster than Ausi. That could have been the simple fact that I inoculated with starter liquid culture than a very small number of spores. No matter what the exact reason, though, the Goliath liquid culture took, on two occasions, no more than 48 hours to develop to a very dense culture! That makes it the fastest liquid culture I have seen of any mushroom, edible or otherwise. The Ausi liquid culture was, in comparison, slower to develop and weaker. It never became as thick before it formed strange gelatinous aggregates before I used it--such aggregates signal in other species that the liquid culture is done and won't get any thicker.

On compost and manure (I am concurrently trying both) supplemented with grains, the mycelia also were different. Goliath actually covered the grain faster than Ausi, but the Goliath initial mycelium coverage is hard to see and not white at all. The Ausi initial mycelium, in contrast, was very white (although still weaker looking than cubensis). Goliath seems to take about five to seven days to really flush out to where it looks reasonably white. Maybe that much time isn't needed, but I didn't want to chance it. The Ausi mycelium, on the other hand, flushed out white and was done within 24 hours of covering the substrate just like cubensis.

I am now at the casing. Since Goliaths have been so full of surprises, I am not sure what will happen! My hunch is that it'll form cottony overlay without any consequence like Waylitjim showed. The Ausi mycelium formed, in some places on my trays, more or less destructive overlay like cubensis. I'll report what I find out in a grow log.

#60 Guest_xxxsevxxx_*

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 08:23 PM

[quote name='bluehelix']I do not believe in beneficial bacteria in relation to cubensis or Pan Cyans. I have no proof of that personally, and as the trays I've done are denser than any other's I have seen, I don't feel like anyone else has some information that I don't.

if you want proof of the B bacteria with cyans try casing only half the tray . i promise that the side cased will have mushrooms , the uncased wont . if you case with a soil less caseing ( verm/water crsytals ) the pan cyans will not fruit ive tryed this for my simple cyan tek so. that way it started with clean materails that need lil to no pastzuring . ive been in a pinch and tryed the pure verm and used that . i didnt get a single fruit from the cyans . ive been really impressed with the invitro pins ive seen , but even then .I have wonderd if that could of had some BB present maybe a lil left over from the pc . theorys are fun lol.
later VII




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