Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Lime Question


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 bipolar

bipolar

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 284 posts

Posted 05 June 2005 - 02:00 PM

I just bought a bag of gardening lime at Lowes. Is this the right lime? Also when I opened the bag the lime was brown and clumped up. :eek: I thought lime was white and powdery. Any help will be appreciated. Thx.

#2 paradox00

paradox00

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 31 posts

Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:53 PM

Gardening lime is not what you want. I used it for a little bit w/o problems, but from what I've learned it is not as effective of a PH buffer. You want hydrated lime which is white and powdery like you said, and not near as heavy as the other stuff.

#3 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

Guest_Peter Cottontail_*
  • Guest

Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:27 PM

Hydrated lime is water soluable. If your grocery stores sell pickling lime, it also works.
RR

Attached Thumbnails

  • lime1.jpg


#4 bipolar

bipolar

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 284 posts

Posted 05 June 2005 - 10:23 PM

Thanks guys.

#5 britewire

britewire

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 65 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:26 AM

I like the name of the lime you use..


(referring to alber hoffman?)

#6 jjoj

jjoj

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 127 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:04 AM

for future reference, look for calcium hydroxide.

#7 Lazlo

Lazlo

    old hand

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 7,620 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:19 AM

Hoffmans and Howard Johnsons are the 2 most common types of lime suitable for our hobby that i've seen. Howard Johnson's comes in a lime green bag and says, Hydrated Garden Bed Lime.

#8 sgt. rock

sgt. rock

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 182 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:37 AM

I just bought a bag of gardening lime at Lowes. Is this the right lime? Also when I opened the bag the lime was brown and clumped up. :eek: I thought lime was white and powdery. Any help will be appreciated. Thx.


Just go to the canning (housewares) section of Walmart or local hardware store (wherever they sell canning jars,ect.) and ask for "piclkeling lime" (pickling lime?) its less than $3

#9 sgt. rock

sgt. rock

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 182 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:43 AM

...did my first one post?if not...
ask for pickeling lime wherever they sell canning jars.under $3. ...pickling lime?

#10 waylitjim

waylitjim

    A Mirror Image

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,706 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:08 PM

I just bought a bag of gardening lime at Lowes. Is this the right lime?


This question comes up quite often...
Here's a little breakdown on lime:

-Calcium hydroxide, Ca(OH)2, colorless crystal or white powder. It is prepared by reacting calcium oxide (lime) with water, a process called slaking, and is also known as hydrated lime or slaked lime. When heated above 580°C it dehydrates, forming the oxide. Like the oxide, it has many uses, e.g., in liming soil, in sugar refining, and in preparing other compounds. It is a strong base and is widely used as an inexpensive alkali. Calcium hydroxide readily reacts with carbon dioxide, CO2, to form calcium carbonate.

-Pickling lime is food grade calcium hydroxide with no additives or preservatives.

-Calcium carbonate is the name of a chemical substance , CaCO3.
Reaction of hydrated lime with CO2 gas = calcium carbonate.
Calcium Carbonate Synonyms: Limestone, calcium carbonate, precipitated calcium carbonate, ground / pulverized calcium carbonate, PCC, GCC, calcite, limestone, crushed marble, ground limestone, lime, chalk, whiting, champagne chalk, French chalk, albacar, calcium carbonate nanoparticle and aeromatt.

-Chalk (Blackboard chalk is not made of chalk) is a form of calcium carbonate, having the same chemical composition as ground calcium carbonate, limestone, marble, and precipitated calcium carbonate. Chalk is soft in texture and holds water well. Chunks of chalk, ranging from one inch thick to dust, improve casing structure and continuously leach into the casing, giving long lasting buffering action.

-Marl: Dredged from dry lake bottum, marl is a soft lime similar to chalk but has the consistency of clay. It is a composite of clay and calcium carbonate with good water holding capacity.

-Limestone is a sediment mineral composed mainly of calcium carbonate, very similar to oyster shells.

-Limestone Flour: Limestone flour is calcitic limestone mined from rock quarries and ground to a fine powder. It is the buffering agent most widely used by Agaricus growers in the United States. Limestone flour is 97% calcium carbonate with less than 2% Magnesium.

-Limestone Grit: Produced in a fashion similar to limestone flour, limestone grit is rated according to particle size after being screened through varying meshes. Limestone grit is an excellent structural additive but has low buffering abilities. A number 9 grit is recommended.

-Oyster Shell: Comprised of calcium carbonate along with other minor ingredients. Ground oyster sell is similar to limestone grit in its buffering action and its structural contributions to the casing layer. But oyster shell should not be used as the sole buffering agent because of its low solubility in water.

-Horticultural lime, also called hydrated lime or Ca(OH)2 is produced by adding water to CaO.

-Quick lime is CaO, a very aggressive substance. It is produced from CaCO3 containing limestone or shellsand by heating it to 1200°C, hereby CO2 is driven off the CaCO3 molecule, leaving CaO.

The material that is used in the mushroom industry as a casing ingredient is always some form of calcium carbonate.

#11 Lazlo

Lazlo

    old hand

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 7,620 posts

Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:36 PM

Am I wrong in saying, Playing Field or Lining chalk will make for a good replacement for Hydrated Lime?

#12 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

Guest_Peter Cottontail_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:45 PM

Very good information jim.
Archive Material to lime.
RR

#13 waylitjim

waylitjim

    A Mirror Image

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,706 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 07 June 2005 - 05:43 PM

I should probably add some info about the 50/50+ (Plus) Casing Tek

Here is a real easy casing mix that works great for cubensis, panaeolus,
and other species. Growers have had great success with this very easy
casing method. The addition of limestone and crushed oyster shell to
the 50/50 mix makes a huge difference and this is what the plus (+) is referring to.

Prepare a mixture of 50% peat moss and 50% vermiculite, sterilized or
pasteurized. squeeze out excess water, then just lightly place it over
the substrate layer, about a 1/4" to 1/2" just so it covers the mycelium layer.
You can also use a little deeper layer, about 3/4" to 1" to allow for a
stronger casing layer that will be helpful for more flushes. The downside
is it takes a little longer to colonize and fruit.

Adding 4% agricultural hydrated lime and 15% crushed oyster shell, by
volume, to the over all 50/50 mix is a much better casing mix.
The mushrooms also seem to grow much bigger this way being they have a
stronger base into the mycelium network. They also like the lime and calcium
from the oyster shell, and you will see less contamination in the casing layer
with the lime added. When mixing the casing substrate, a lot of the oyster shell
and lime sinks to the bottom, so mix it and squeeze it real good when placing over the substrate.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Be sure you buy horticultural hydrated lime, not dolomitic or it will burn the mycelium
and they wont grow. So look at nurseries for horticultural hydrated lime, it
usually says "to sweeten the soil on the bag". Although most people have
great success from using horticultural hydrated lime, some do not. They end
up burning their mycelium or the mycelium just never colonizes through to the
casing soil. Perhaps the hydrated lime they are buying has a much higher alkaline level
then then the Hi Yield brand. Hi Yield brand has low Magnesium levels and is a proven
brand which works great. But just to play it on the safe side, consider using
calcium carbonate rather than hydrated lime.

A ground calcium carbonate is a gentle buffer. Some brands of hydrated
lime are not. Calcium carbonate is basically ground up limestone, a
soil sweetener. It works just as good if not better then horticultural
hydrated lime. Its a much safer bet as well. You should be able to find
calcium carbonate in just about any garden supply store.

Another tip, look for the large chunked oyster shell sold at feed
stores. The fine powder shell is fine, the but the large chunked shell
gives a much better texture and the mushrooms grow even better on this
soil. You can find oyster shell anywhere birds are sold, or at most
feed stores.

This recipe will make enough casing mix for a good 3-6 bulk tubs,
depending on how big they are.

- 15 1/2 cups vermiculite
- 15 1/2 cups peat moss
- 4 1/2 cups crushed oyster shell
- 1.2 cups of hydrated lime
- 15 cups of distilled water (1 cup short of a gallon of bottled water)

#14 waylitjim

waylitjim

    A Mirror Image

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,706 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 07 June 2005 - 08:38 PM

Calcium Carbonate is really the way to go if you have
doubts about how your source of lime. Brands vary so,
just be sure yours doesn't have much Magnesium present.
1% - 5% total Mg is said to be safe for myceilum.

Need a good source for Calcium Carbonate?
Check out Petco or Petsmart for a product called T-Rex Calci Sand
This is an inexpensive natural source of Calcium Carbonate.
You can get a 5 lb. bag for under $10

Here's a casing recipe which works great:

4 parts peat
1/4 part verm
1 part calcium carbonate
2- 2 1/4 parts water

Soak your verm in water before adding it to the mixture.
One way to let you know the moisture content is optimal (TMC) is to:
Remove 10-20% of the volume of the dry mix and then saturate the remaining 80-90%.
Then add the remaining dry material.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Calci-sand.jpg


#15 Lazlo

Lazlo

    old hand

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 7,620 posts

Posted 08 June 2005 - 10:10 AM

Hey Jim! Would calcium carbonate and calcium hydoxide be the same parts in your mixture? I would think so, but not sure. And, would field or baseball lining chalk be the same chalk used for this hobby?

#16 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

Guest_Peter Cottontail_*
  • Guest

Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:41 AM

Also, don't forget the gypsum. In addition to the calcium, it also provides sulphur, which is also important for good fruit development.
RR

#17 Beast

Beast

    That's Mr. Beast to you..

  • Expired Member
  • 3,930 posts

Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:44 AM

How much gypsum as compared to amounts of hydrated lime and oyster shell would be recommended for adding to casing layers? Also does gypsum contribute to pH buffering? I've heard both, and more that it just helps keep grains from sticking together, but then I thought that was more a matter of moisture content...

Is liming the substrate necessary if a limed casing layer is going to be used?

#18 waylitjim

waylitjim

    A Mirror Image

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,706 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 08 June 2005 - 12:46 PM

Hey Jim! Would calcium carbonate and calcium hydoxide be the same parts in your mixture?


Yes, Calcium Hydoxide (hydrated lime) can also be used. Just be aware
there are few types of hydrated lime and some brands will burn your mycelium.
You do NOT want dolomitic hydrated lime for growing mushrooms
The kind you want is high calcium hydrated lime with Mg. levels below 5%

Hydrated lime is the best for a short term buffer. You could bypass the
hydrated lime altogether and use calcium carbonate or ground limestone.
Both are gentle buffers. If you got with hydrated lime, don't forget the
crushed oyster shells for the long term PH buffer. The hydrated lime will
buffer the PH right away, but it's not long lasting. The addition of oyster shell
to hydrated lime will ensure proper pH balance of the casing layer for future flushes.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!