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Question about alternatives to HEPA filters in gloveboxes


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#1 itch

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 05:18 PM

Hi..
I'm a newbie and i'm planing to make a pos.press. glovebox. I think that i will not be able to find a HEPA filter in my country, so i'm looking for an alternative..

The plan is in the attachment..Attention:hi res pic:D


So, will that work?? I think it should filter dust and also kill 99.99% of bacteria&stuff..or not:confused:

What solution would give the best result?? Bleach+water, etanol, isopropyl, hidrogen peroxide, some acid or maybe to mix them all together?;)

An alternative to that? (except no fan box)


bye

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#2 Hippie3

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 05:20 PM

you'd be far better off with a still-air glovebox
you not only need HEPA filter but the airflow must be
laminar,
which your design is not.
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#3 Hippie3

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 05:20 PM

laminar flow =http://hyperphysics....base/pfric.html

#4 Guest_dial8_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 05:59 PM

Still air gb'swork great. Just clean the inside and spray with a strerilizer and walla....a clean room for your inoculations. Just be sure that you clean all your instruments and load them all into the box before you spray your final sterilizing mist and close the lid. I would not reccomend lysol for sterilizing because it is a fire hazard and you will prolly have a flame in there to sterilize your needle. If youdo use lysol let it settle for at least 20 minutes before you light a flame.

#5 itch

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 06:37 PM

How do i get a laminar airflow??

Maybe if I install a filter in the box after the fan, will the filter make the flow laminar.? But not a HEPA but some other which I find and is suitable. I think it would be ok if the bong would filter good enough..

But, will the bong filter the air ???
I think some similar system is used in vacuum cleaners with water, although they have HEPA filters too, at least some. I think it's because the water doesn't filter well enough, but if it would have bleach or alcohol or something else instead? And maybe to filter the air with more than one bong connected with different liquids inside??? A multistage, multiliquid, multicomplicated bong:) It's very cheap to build and maybe it even works:)


I think that in the end I will finish by using a box with no fan, but why making it simple when it can be complicated:D

cheerz

#6 Guest_bullfrog_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:07 PM

if you use an alcohol in your water filter, the fumes can kill open /exposed spores and retard mycillium. alcohol kills everything in contact. your best bet is to go with a still air glovebox, or use the proper hepa. improper filtration is the same as blowing contaminates in your box. bllfrg

#7 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:16 PM

As said, forget the fan. Forget the filter. A clear box with holes for your hands is all you need. A glovebox need not be sterile, it only needs to be clean, with no air movement.
RR

#8 slp

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:14 PM

I'd do like RR said, but add a Dual Element Ion Generator inside....then you are
cutting out .001 micron. There are threads, or use to be, here some where on
the device. Maybe someone will help point a way. And, there are no filters to
buy....slp/fmrc

#9 sandman

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:54 PM

i also vote (and use) a still air box, sprayed with a 50:1 bleach water.

#10 Guest_lost_onabbey_rd_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:26 PM

i'd listen to hip and RR.. still air is the way to go for a glove box...
if you wanna make things a little more complex you can line the inside of the box with tin foil..
this will make cleaning the inside surfaces much easier..
and will make your glove box last a little longer too
as said before i would also recommend a 50:1 bleach water spray for cleaning the box and everything you put in it..
then i like to spary the inside with some oust
but make sure to let that settle for 10 mins before trying to light a lighter in there
speaking from personal experience
it is no fun having a glove box shoot a fire ball in your face while your trying to do delicate work...
lost

#11 bluehelix

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 04:32 AM

If you use a liquid culture and spawn bags, you can do the entire grow process without HEPA, a glovebox, or anything like either of those and grow as much as you want from a few ounces to hundreds of pounds. Everything is injection-based, so there is no need for HEPA. The only secret to using spawn bags without a clean room is to not let air in the spawn bags until you seal them. Once the are sealed, hang them up with some rubber wood clamps and allow them to self-inflate through their filter patch from their own weight pulling the air in over an hour or so.
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#12 Hippie3

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 05:06 AM

Once the are sealed, hang them up with some rubber wood clamps and allow them to self-inflate through their filter patch from their own weight pulling the air in over an hour or so.


hmm,
learned something today,
thx!!
:bow:
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#13 Invitro

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 06:21 AM

The dual element ionizer is the way to go , I removed
my gloves for better mobility and have done 60+ quarts
G2G and cloning with no contams .

Attached Thumbnails

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  • IonizerBoxfrontside.jpg
  • IonizerBoxbackside.jpg


#14 itch

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 06:50 AM

thxto all for the advices..

dual ionizer is out of the question for now..here where i live, normal ones are expesive like hell and i think no one ever heard of double ones:) ..and i dont know if someone in europe sells them..haven't found yet..

but no one answered my question..so i ask again: do you think that filtrating air through the "bongs" with different fluids would kill enough germs'n'stuff to make a "sterile" environment.??? i know it can't be 100% sterile, but could it be atleast 99%??;) could something escape the fluid 3 times and get airborne again?? i don't know, maybe it's useless on that little particles...

for example the fan pumps the air through a bottle with water, then alcohol(lysol) then bleach and then it enters the box...and you could put some angel hair in the bottles to slow the passing of air trough, thus filtrating it better...??

could that be a decent alternative for HEPA..??

bye

#15 Hippie3

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 07:10 AM

no.
we already told you the correct answers,
you just don't like them.
what more can we do ?
good luck.

#16 itch

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 08:21 AM

ok,ok...
but, no one wrote anything about filtering through water and that was the thing i wanted to know..i know no pres.gb is fine too, but i think there are better things too..tnx anyway

cheerz

#17 Hippie3

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:41 AM

we directly stated why it's inferior.
it's not laminar flow,
the air turbulance alone would suck in contams
thru any crack ever so tiny.
blowing in sterile air will not solve that problem at all.
your real issue, friend,
is that your mind is already made up,
and you're looking for someone to tell you
what you want to hear.
sorry but i think you would do better
if we tell you the truth instead.
you'll thank us later.
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#18 itch

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 11:18 AM

now thats what i was looking for, an elaborated answer..

i asked a specific question and would like to have a specific answer to it..not just that the whole system is crap, i want to know what part of it isn't good and how to improve it..i don't believe that the whole system is crap because there are tons of teks online but none of them is with water filtering and thats what interests me..maybe it doesn't work but if it doesn't i would like to know why??
i guess that someone must know something of it, or at least think of it a little more than to say it's crap and to move on..

now you said it's not laminar flow, and then i asked how to make it laminar...and i still don't know..i saw other p.p.gb without HEPA teks in archives and i don't know if they have laminar flow and if they do how did they achieve it???

my mind isn't made up, i simply don't know and want to know ..

sorry for bugging, peace:hippie:

#19 Hippie3

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 11:58 AM

well, we've been here for several years now,
we know the score well enough
that we don't need to stop and think about something
that we already know is inferior.
scroll up,
i see at least 6-7 different people telling you
a better way.
if you want to ignore all of them,
like i said,
what more is there to do
but to wish you the best of luck ?

#20 Guest_lost_onabbey_rd_*

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 12:15 PM

to answer your question.. no.. water filtration is not good enough...
the fact that you still inhale smoke through a bong is a prime example..
sure it will pull some of the stuff out.. but uless you have a way to split those airbubbles up to a .001micron size there is no way it will pull everything out..
the vacume cleaners you are thinging about are a brand called rainbow..
and they suck ass... they use the water filtration as a sales gimic..
that is pretty much it
as far as laminare flow goes... you would need a fan such as that found in a squerall cage fan.. not like the osolating fans people have in their houses..
i STILL think it is best to use a still air glove box..
yes some people can get away with p.p.g.b's...
i know very few with whom this is the case...
unless you can generate enough air flow to sweep all the air in one direction
which requires an unobstructed filter and outlet on opposing sides (called a flowhood)
then all the fan would be doing is turning and moving the air around...
and considering the average house has about 15000 contames per square ft of air..
it is generaly best to clean a small area of that air.. and try to keep that cleaned space from moving till the work is through..
hope this clears some things up
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