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Liquid culture experiment....Hillbilly's syringe refill kits...strange results


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#21 Hippie3

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 06:25 AM

archive material

#22 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 06:24 PM

Hormones? Mycelia respond to hormones? Mycelia responds to PLANT hormones? Any suggestions which hormone family might be benefecial to research? Are auxin/cytokinin systems involved??? Lord, are gibberellins at play here? The mind reels...research must be done immediately...

A response base to plant hormones means all sorts of plant uptake considerations might come into play. That means fulvics/humics might be a consideration. There might be cellular wall response to silicone trace elements. The mind reels...

For a beggining cultivator with a strong science background, would you recommend starting with "The Mushroom Cultivator" or "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms?" Would you perhaps recommend a different book? I am leaning towards "Growing Gourmet." I am looking for the very dry research data/paper type stuff. Also, I'm more interested in knowing about mushrooms in general than psilocybes in specific. Buying actual books is SO expensive...

#23 Hippie3

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 06:38 PM

well i'm not a real scientist,
i just play one on the internet.
:)
i hate to stick my neck out without real proof.
but for your own research
i use kelp extract, unsweetened coconut meat and corn meal
as supplements.
you can figure out what's in coconut, corn and kelp
with a little research...

frankly i wouldn't buy either book,
the really bleeding edge stuff is all on the 'net

#24 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:24 PM

Kelp is a classic source of cytokinins and precursors. That wonderful sea plant/algae covers most of the base spectrum, but especially the odd dextorotary stuff.

Coconut is cytokinins, too, though far richer in the amino sources (and notably LACKING in the dextorotary oddities provided by Kelp).

Cornmeal is rich in kinetins (cytokinin relatives) and precursor nutrients. Kinetin sources let a cellular matrix more effectively exploit a cytokinin rich environment.

For somebody "playing" scientist you are providing a very complete source of cytokinin hormones in a matrix which enhances their function....is this vision or gut or research or all three? Your mind interests me. I propose again that you should be working for NASA.

Your mentioned additives are all "classic" plant additives (ESPECIALLY kelp - it's like magic with all growing things). What blows me away is the consideration that mycelial development might respond to the same vectors as the shrubberies I already know and love. My "classical" education would suggest that fungi's growth vectors are different than that of a cloroplast exploiting "plant." Perhaps I need to revisit the source materials with a different primary objective/perspective.

Ya wouldn't buy either book, eh? That was my base assessment, as well (and the reason I've bought neither up until now). Another blow to print is delivered...

In your experience, does "scratching" one area of a living mat affect growth in non scratched areas? That would *imply* cytokinin concentration phenomena (see supercropping, bending/breaking, and keeping all growth tips level). If hormones are affecting early development of mycelia, they are most likely effecting fruit development as well. If hormonal concentration in the mat is naturally causing/affecting development, perhaps intentional (external) concentrations of fruiting hormone could induce development in an specific area. Perhaps that "fruiting edge" could be accentuated...

Should I consider an experiment with abusing fruits/mycelial mats???

I'm going to need more lab space...LOTS more lab space...

THE MIND REELS...

#25 Hippie3

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:24 PM

is this vision or gut or research or all three?


vision, intuition, trial-and-error-
you name it.
i can't really explain how i think,
it just happens.

it has been my experience that scratching does increase pinning
once the organism recovers.
it is also my sense that it is indeed a singular organism,
with transport mechanisms in place to move nutes,etc. wherever needed.

#26 Hippie3

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:46 PM

btw
are the partial vacuum LC jars still far out ahead ?

#27 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 08:41 PM

Man, I wish there was a way I could get a DVR of the message boards inside your head! Guess I'll just have to wait until it starts to bubble up through race memory. ...as Tom Petty says, "The waiting is the hardest part..."

I'll post a nice 2 week update tomorrow (when I hit two weeks), but, yeah, all 4 vacuum jars are WAY ahead of their vented counterparts. It's really kind of weird. The fluffy vs. gelatinous apearance has remained constant, as well. I can easily tell dex from Karo without looking at my coding on the jar tops (I guessed 8 for 8 the other night with no problem). It's kind of bugging me out, because I'm not used to environmental variables causing such markedly different growth response. Other than killing it through overfertilization, I can't have any where NEAR this much impact on a plant by varying it's intake. This is such a cool hobby!

My preliminary opinion is that Karo (by itself) works quite a bit better than dextrose (by itself). I am leaning strongly towards a belief that there is something pretty relevant going on with Lazlo's vanilla tek.

I'm going to use all these initial eight jars for weighing results instead of innoculations. After all, I've got another huge jar of water on the way! At this point, I'm salivating to actually have some hard numbers to compare to the visual clues.

I've got to get a good camera. Maybe I could pull a Deuce Bigalow for the cash...

I'm thinking that I will call this experiment complete at 4 weeks in the incubator (unless they stall first from lack of food).

Tomorrow I'm shooting eight dex/Karo/malt syrup jars (4 vent, 4 vacuum). I'm also *considering* a miniscule addition of bee pollen to suplement the aminos. Actually, maybe only two jars with pollen. I don't want too many variables.

Singular organism response, eh? I'm definitely going to need more lab space!

Thank you TONS for the pointers...and the place...

#28 Hippie3

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 11:44 AM

pollen's an interesting additive,
i add a bit to my mycro jars as well.

#29 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 25 October 2005 - 08:18 PM

Two weeks and 3 days update.

No two week update because something seemed to be happening: the non vacuum jars are catching up. I think the vacuum jars stalled from lack of air, because they seem to not be growing anywhere near as quickly. Next experiment will be to bubble the vacuum jars and then pull air back out to restore the negative pressure...live and learn, eh?

Karo is definitely kicking dextrose's butt, growth wise.

Mycelial morphology definitely seems connected to nutrients. I think I prefer the fluffy growth to the gelatinous spheres. The fluff breaks up quicker with a good shake and I'm guessing it will be much less likely to clog my syringe.

#30 Hippie3

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 06:27 AM

one must be cautious about drawing conclusions
based on limited data and many uncontrolled variables.

#31 spyker

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 06:11 PM

Excellent info on the growth hormone... I still have a large supply of the real good stuff, made from kelp and 5 others, from the tunnel farming days.. for hydro plants it out performs the other kelp stuff. oh yeah.

This stuff in a dilute spray brought back to life 10000 chilli/pepper seedlings that got nailed with root rot. Their leaves had all fallen off and they were just infected stalks. Sprays with this stuff made em resprout, regrow the roots and grow into more vigorous plants than the unsprayed healthy plants. They never got infected by the later botritus (grey mold) infection that wiped out courgettes.
Getting ideas...

Stuff was called "herbali" and HP active..

#32 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 11:10 AM

Three week update:

The vacuum jars are now showing slighly less visible growth than the non vaccum jars. I am predicting that by next weekend, when I call this experiment done, the "non vacs" will be ahead. Interesting, but I'm still scrambling to determine what it might mean.

The dextrose jars are decisively behind the Karo jars. So much for the wonders of laboratory grade anhydrous dextrose. KISS, eh?

#33 Hippie3

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:51 AM

really though tissue cultures are a bit like spores-
one does not need thick snot-like growth to get the job done
when in truth each cell is a growth point, and there are several
hundred million cells in anything large enough to be seen.




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