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no-heat bleach/lime pasturization


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#21 agentstone

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 01:18 AM

Question about a few of the details in no heat pasturization.

After soaking the straw in the bleach water for 24 hours. how long must it sit? Also if it is very damp still.... too wet to spawn... will letting it sit in the sun for a bit be a good idea to remove excess moisture or is there a better way?

thanks all

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#22 sinthetic

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:54 AM

i usually let it drain for about 6 hours before spawning, not in the sun or anything.

#23 blackout

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 06:34 AM

Got a small compressed brick of barley straw, weighed 850g. Mixed 35g hydrated lime with about 1litre of water and 10ml of 5% bleach. I injected this into the bag in various spots with a 60ml syringe. Left it about 5 hours. Then I put 25g of fresh cubensis stems into a blender with about water and whizzed it up well. This was mixed to about 750ml water and injected this into the bag in many spots. This both aerates the bag and spreads out the myc evenly. The bag now weighs about 2550g so it has about 70% water content, assuming the straw was about 10% naturally.

The bag is very compact so I am a little worried about air exchange, bigger bags fom the same manufacturer were looser.

I did stems to get a clone but the stems did have a few spores dropped on them. I am now thinking it may have been better to use a few caps left upside down to drop spores on themselves. I have heard that myc blended too much may not work very well. If I did 4 large caps that would be a shitload of fresh spores in there, so if the live myc didnt work too well the spores should work ok. Plan is to get rapid colonisation before contams get a chance to grow. I could also take unsterile prints on a glass surface and scrape them together, bombard it with about 100 prints worth of spores in one go.

Attached Thumbnails

  • straw 6 nov 05.jpg
  • stem slurry 6 nov 05.jpg


#24 sinthetic

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:29 PM

If properly bleach pasturized, the spores will not germinate. Better to use spawn, or in your case, live tissue.

#25 blackout

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 04:59 AM

Yes, forgot about the bleach. If it was left a few days the bleach should have degraded, but then it is catch 22, since the extra time leaves time for contams. I did not want to add LC as the residual sugars and nutrients may be contam friendly while the straw is more selective.
no signs of growth yet, the bag is nice and humid inside. sitting at about 80F

#26 agentstone

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 12:54 PM

So when using LC as innoculant. you want to use it on a subtrate that still have some contam fighting punch left to it ehh? Is this cause the LC can overcome the remaining bleach but unestablished contams cant?

-Stone

#27 blackout

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 01:07 PM

I dont "want" contams, but I also dont want the hassle of getting rid of them. Myc has natural anitbacterial properties to fight off contams. If you add a large dose of LC to partially dry grains the colonisation is extremely rapid and any subsequent growing contams in the grain will have little chance of taking over the substrate since the myc is so well established.
I also wonder if there would be any chance of a PF jar working if you just added dry BRF and verm and injected LC as the only moisture for it. May work better with just a shroom slurry due to the lack of sugars.

#28 Hippie3

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 08:01 AM

the smaller the jar the better chance it might work.

how's the straw bale doing now ?

#29 blackout

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 07:27 AM

Straw bale showed no growth at all...
It was removed from the incuabtor, only growth was some seeds that were in with it! My other non-heated poo and lime has also just died on me. It doesnt smell bad but there is no myc now, it has all just gone brown/black.

The straw doesnt smell bad or anything. I am thinking of doing something else with it. Blue Helix was sterilizing bags with manure and WBS. Most say innoculating manure or straw with LC does not work well (I have to agree after my results), but blue helix got good results. I am thinking of mixing the straw with BRF and maybe some manure. This should be able to undergo a simple steaming.
I'm pretty pissed off, but I have plenty of other grows to tide me by.

#30 Hippie3

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:19 AM

eh, everything has a limit.
i've found too that mycellial suspensions in liquids
seem to have difficulty in directly making the transition
to straw and other bulk substrates,
i think the shock is enough to give bacteria a head start

#31 blackout

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 12:59 PM

Well I checked back on the straw that was just lying in my room which is at 60-70F most days. I noticed white growth and thought it was mould. I noticed little strands which I thought were mouldy shoots from germinating seeds in the straw (there were about 10 real shoots). I checked back today and I have shrooms!
Can anybody ID these as cubensis? doesnt look like it to me, the caps are perfectly white. I wonder what the chances are that some other spores were on the straw when I bought it.
I will check for blueing.

Attached Thumbnails

  • barley straw4.jpg
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  • barley straw2.jpg
  • barley straw1.jpg
  • barley straw full.jpg


#32 Hippie3

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 01:23 PM

does not look like cubensis to me.

#33 blackout

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 11:15 AM

Picked one and it definitely wasnt cubensis. Got ID'd as coprinus.

#34 Hippie3

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 01:13 PM

very common on straw

#35 Stenciler

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 03:05 PM

The hot tap water works well, but isn't needed if you're soaking for 8+ hours or so. The hotter water knocks off the waxy coating a bit quicker....


You all do know that hot water denatures the active ingredient in bleach, right? It's unclear here, but I might reccomend a hot soak, then cold soak w the bleach, then the lime so the bleach can denature after working it's magic. Mind you I'm new and have never worked with straw but...science says!

www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/grp-useofbleach-en-2004052100.pdf




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