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Ecuador(EQ) on Uncased Horse Manure

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#1 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:51 PM

Well the pins at least. As you can see the manure didn't even colonize all the way and pins started so I chose not to case it for fear of contaming it. Seems to be happening to me a lot lately. I like to let my manure spawn runs colonize at room temp in the indirect light so thats probably why. I bet the pinset would be so much better with the casing layer but oh well. Fruits are fruits and I'm happy about that :)
Ecuador clone from karo liquid culture inoculated to 3 quarts popcorn, spawned to straight horse manure pastuerized in lime water. No casing like I wanted. 2nd flush hopefully will get the casing layer.
The middle picture is my favorite only because it is closest genetically to the fruit I cloned. The fruit I cloned from grew from a 2 cluster and is pretty much a genetic replica, I hope at least. Of course I love the first picture too because thats how I was hoping the whole pinset would look. But ohhh well, Like the Stones sang, "You can't always get what you want, you can try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you neeeeed, ahhhh yeah"

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#2 rockawayrooms


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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:01 PM

Ahhh brings back sweet memories,
eq's were me/first!!:)

#3 Guest_dial8_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 07:26 AM


#4 blackout



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 07:46 AM

great results. Please tell us your method for lime pasteurization . type of lime, weights, time of steep etc. I was not sure if you could lime manure like straw, seems you did it ok.
I would like to be able to just add a certain amount of water so shredded manure, i.e. not soak in excess, so I do not have to strain.

can't you just cover them in newspaper or anything, to stop light causing them to pin

#5 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 08:42 AM

My past. steps for manure.

1: I have my trusty poo pillowcase
2: I crumble and break up my poo and put desired amt. in pillowcase. I never measure it, do it by eye and how the weight feels by hand. Pick out rocks and big twigs if I catch them.
3: I have a large stock pot, a rack in the bottom, keeps the pillowcase off bottom of pot.
4: I put 3 tablespoons of hydrated lime in the pot.
5: Add pillowcase. I twist the top of it and wrap it around.
6: Put brick or rock on top of pillowcase.
7: Fill with hot tap water.
8: Set on stove turned on Med-High.
9: Place thermometer in and wait till it reads 140 degrees.
10: Turn stove down to low and put lid on.
11: Every 20 minutes I check temp. I never let it go over 160 degrees.
12: After 1.5 hours, shut stove off and keep lid on to let cool.
13. When cool, carry it outside and string the pillowcase through my fence.
14: Let it drain for about 12 hours.
15: Dump my poo water on outdoor beds, or on compost.
16: After drain, squeeze the bottom of the case to make sure its not soaking wet yet.
17: Return to pot.
18: Carry to casing area, clean up and spawn.

Pretty basic really. Also, when I want to do large amounts I use a cooler in the bath tub and carry boiling water to it. A large pot on the stove with the pillowcase will do quite a bit of poo.
*NOTE* Stovetop Ranges can vary with heat. You may have to heat yours differently. Those are temps I use for my stove.

I can cover them with foil to keep them dark, but I find that they take off on the spawn run if just covered with cling wrap poked with holes. The prepinning before is all my fault. Whatever works for it, I'm happy to see fruits!

#6 blackout



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 08:58 AM

ah, I see, I thought it was a cold soak in just lime to pastuerize.
If people have problems with heat on stoves you can leave the pot half on half off. I remember my old PC needed 10minutes on "4" and 20minutes on "3" to keep it ticking over. You just have to learn your own setting.

I have cow poo/straw colonising now. It was pasteruised in the microwave. Once you calculate/match the correct amount to put in at a certain power level it remains perfectly stable. On defrost it stayed between 160-170F

I am going to try a cold manure pasteurization method myself anyways.

#7 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 09:05 AM

blackout, the cold manure bath will be interesting. Let us know how it goes.

I'd only try that with really dry or composted manure. I past. my way because its like second nature now and always works well. I don't add anything to my manure, and just lime to the water in the pot. The cold bleach lime may work for that because of the bleach added in.
Interesting about the microwave, I'll have to test my defrost temps and see what they hold at. I only use my microwave for sterilizing casing and for making liquid cultures. Its quicker than the pc and less energy use.

#8 Hippie3



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 09:52 AM

feel free to tag ARCHIVE MATERIAL
if you deem fit...

#9 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:03 AM

Okay Hippie! I don't think I can do it to my own threads though lol. Make me feel funny.

#10 Hippie3



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:05 AM

well, not all your own threads
but if you post a lot of tek details
why not ?

#11 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:11 AM

:D I get ya!!!!!

#12 blackout



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 11:01 AM

Interesting about the microwave, I'll have to test my defrost temps and see what they hold at. I only use my microwave for sterilizing casing and for making liquid cultures. Its quicker than the pc and less energy use.

I do all my stuff in the microwave now. The thing to understand is that at a low setting your power is constant. Your material inside will lose heat relative to its surface area. Once you heat up a large weight/volume of material it insulates itself, the hot air in the microwave will further insulate itself too. Say you heat the poo to 160F, turn down low and microwave for 10mins and now check the temp and it is 165F on its lowest setting. Then you must either add more poo or shake the bag to loosen the poo opening up its surface area to allow more heat loss. Also taking into account the heat loss and hot air loss while taking the poo out to check the temp and shake it up. You may have a steady 160F after 10 minutes. But after 1 hour it maybe up to 170F since the air gets hotter and hotter inside insulating it more.

Once you have the correct settings to the weight and structure of the poo it should be easily repeatable. Keep notes.

Heating 1litre of water to 160F in a microwave takes about twice as long as bringing 500ml of water to 160F. BUT keeping them both at 160 is a different story, it does not take twice the power to keep them at 160, you are really just trying to stop heat loss from the microwave. You may know this already from doing LC's I microwave until boiling, then set it on low for 20-30mins, doesnt matter if it is 1 or 4 jars, the lowest or second lowest setting keeps them all simmering

#13 Texas_Bob



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Posted 21 October 2005 - 01:41 PM

Those pins look nice.....I love EQ they fruit like crazy and are nice potent suckers.

#14 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 02:10 PM

Thanks Bob, EQ's are a great strain, I agree.

Blackout, good microwave info there. You should write up a couple of them as teks with pics for folks who like to use the microwave.

#15 red_lenses


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Posted 22 October 2005 - 03:02 PM

My friend is doin a test run of z's on straight h-poo(getting ready for the 2 quarts of P.E. that are almost done)
first try with a bulk sub other than straw.
Question is, this poo has been composting in a 30 gal. garbage can for almost 10 months now stirred every week or so.
3 quarts were shredded and hydrated last nite with 2/3 cup hoffman hydrated lime. it soaked for about 6 hrs then was sqeezed out to field cap.
This morning it smelled of ammonia so some calcium carb. was added before past. per rodgers tek(loaded into quarts then put in pot till boiling then covered and removed form heat and let cool)
you think it will be o.k. ?

#16 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 07:01 PM

Red Lenses, sometimes even my composted manure will have a slight smell to it after its hydrated, really minimal. If it is really strong and smells really bad rinse it a few times and re-pastuerize it.

I'm sure it should be okay. One rule of thumb I follow for myself is, if I'm worried about my poo, add as much spawn as I can so it can colonize it as fast as possible. The more spawn, the quicker the colonization.

Also, I have tarps in my garage layed out with the manure spread on them. I used to keep it in big totes but found if I lay it out and stir it around it dries quicker and the ammonia will evaporate out better. You said you had yours in a garbage can, so the stuff on the bottom is getting any moisture the top manure is leaking down to it. That may be why you had the ammonia smell. You can also just drill some holes in the bottom of the can to help air the bottom out. I would stir mine in my big totes too, but found laying it out and mixing it in a thinner layer was a lot better.

#17 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 07:15 PM

Looking good there freak!

I have really good success with horse manure by keeping the tray covered with aluminum foil during colonization. Enough air leaks around the edges to provide gas exchange, and it keeps the light off. Once you remove the foil, the CO2 level naturally freefalls at the same time as light hits the mycelium. Wicked pinsets usually result.

I've also all but quit casing horse manure. You'll get fruits a week to ten days earlier without a casing, and as long as you dunk the substrate between flushes, there's no real need for a casing layer. Large trays or tubs can be left overnight in the sink or bathtub with the faucet running gently and the drain open. Just let the tray fill up and start overflowing. With cold running water, there is no need for refrigeration.

#18 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 08:02 PM

Thanks Rodger!!!!

I will try covering them with foil next time to keep that pinning from happening so quick. I guess I always used cling so I could see how colonization was going and if green was going to show up so I could get it out quick. I'm going to try this with my next spawn run. Thanks again!

I have to agree with the non-casing of the manure substrates too. I haven't cased one in months.

Thanks again again also for the gently running water tip. I was filling the tubs with cold water and using ice packs around the bottoms of the tubs. Even though they floated I figured it can drink from the bottom and it saves the top from getting that slime that happens from a fully submerged dunk. Your way is much easier and its better to keep that much water close to a drain.

#19 blackout



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Posted 23 October 2005 - 09:25 AM

Do you have contam problems when you don't case the poo? I know poo should not contam as easy as uncased grain but I thought it would still be a problem. If I was not casing it I would prefer a layer of manure at the top so no bare grains are exposed

When you harvest is there poo attached to the shrooms? That is one reason I would still prefer to case.
Are there other advantages to not casing it? One I can think of is that I could fit more substrate into my trays since there will be no room needed for the casing.

My cow poo/straw tray is colonised now and I am casing it in a few hours (took 28days to colonise, think it was too wet). I spawned 200g grain to 600g straight cow poo yesterday. It was not heated at all. I crumbled up 500g of cow poo really well and added 50g of hydrated lime. Then I added 100ml of water with 3ml of 5% bleach added. When squeezed no water came out, but it was borderline. The poo was very well aged and had a fair bit of firefang on it.

#20 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 10:20 PM

Blackout, I haven't run into any contam problems *knock on wood* without the casing layer on the poo substrates yet. I can usually get 3-4 flushes out of it, then I take it out. If the humidity is right in the chamber they usually pick right off the top layer of mycelium and don't pull much, if any of the poo substrate off with the bottoms. I usually don't worry too much about it. I keep a close eye on them so if I see anything suspicous I take it out right away and keep it in solitary.
Hope the no heat bleach/lime works for your poo.
Finding just the right moisture level is important because if its too dry it'll be slow and welcome contams, if its too wet it will be slow and welcome contams. 28 days to colonize manure is a while unless its a huge bulk tray or bed or something. I find popcorn is a pretty slow manure colonizer, because the size of the grain.
And here are some updated pictures I took of it tonight. I love the Ecuadors! Gonna print some of these beauties when the time comes!

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