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lucid dreaming


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#41 hunter

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 08:09 PM

i used to have dreams like that all the time. One time i had a dream where i was in hell and my 3rd grade teacher was satan's apprentice and i realized i was dreaming and then i couldnt wake up so i thought it was reality, but that was when i was a young'n. now i keep getting dreams where i wake up but am still dreaming.

#42 hunter

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 09:26 PM

i have problems remembering my dreams because i have countless dreams in one night. some dreams seem like hours but only seconds have elapsed in reality. has anyone here ever taken control of their subconscious and remembered everything they discovered?

#43 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:42 AM

chris,

I've tried everything thats out there over the past 5 years. everyone learns differently and some people are just naturals. I am not a natural by any means. I had to work like hell to get where i am. for most people its not that hard. all i know is its been worth all of it.

Out of all the technics out there the number 1 most important thing is a dream journal. you've probobly heard that before. its true. there's a whole lot of other benifits to keeping a journal like this but as far as imconcerned (and im very concerned) the journal is the most important thing. everything else is fringe because getting familiar with how your particular dreams work is crutial. I might say that anyone who has any desire to become lucid could do so by simply keeping a journal. honestly getting lucid isn't really the hard part.. its staying lucid thats hard. its navigating thats tricky.

the way i had my first lucid dream is i kept a very good journal recording up to five dreams every night for about two weeks. I accompanied that with checking a digital watch that i bought for that purpose. It beeped once an hour. each time i looked at my watch and asked if i was dreaming. I could prove to myself that i wasnt dreaming because digital watches dont display proper time in dreams.

see, all things are the substance of dreams. when you make looking at a digital watch part of your daily routine its very likley that checking your watch will become part of your dream. so ANY time your watch looks funny dont just ignore it. really try and prove to yourself weather or not you're dreaming. read some text, look away, then look back. if the text changed at all you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're dreaming.

as far as staying lucid, you're really only going to get a feel for the way it feels when you accidentally wake youself up by getting too excited or just forgetting that you're dreaming. What i do is have rehersals. anytime i find myself on a train platform i think to myself 'if i were dreaming what would it feel like' 'what would i do' then i actually start to get that axious feeling of possibility. what the rehersal does is it gets you used to the idea of lucidity. what most people do as soon as they realize theyre dreaming is have sex with the nearest atractive person they see. this causes excitement and inevitably awakening or dream change.

you cant always escape scenary change and you will get better at keeping this stable as you get better but the best way to maintain continuity for consciousness that ive found is holding a button hole on my dream clothes. if i feel the scenary changing i just hold onto somthing. something small. if you findyourself in bed holding something inbetween your fingers you must know that you're still dreaming because during REM sleep your body is paralized.

so.. anyway i hope this info was helpful...

#44 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:44 AM

oh, yea, hunter. ive come pretty damn close to remembering everything. sometimes you can remember things in dreams from other dreams that you forgot. you can even find your way to past dream spaces and recall things that way.

#45 psilly

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 02:18 AM

Joe, me and you are like this (making sign with hand). I, too, began reading Dick after watching Waking Life. I, too, have had dreams where I remembered past dreams I never recalled during my waking life. I, too, have revisited past dreams spaces and been flooded with memories from that time. And, yeah, I used to have sex with the nearest hot girl every time I realized I was dreaming...that's probably been the hardest thing to stop doing! Especially once you're able to conjure up any dream character imaginable, it takes a lot of motivation to choose otherwise.

#46 sydlexic

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 05:09 AM

well no dreams that i can remember at all last nite, but i did only get about 3 1/2 hours sleep (possibly not long enough to go into REM?) do you think it might help to keep a dream journal? if yes should i note down times as well as what i was dreaming?
i cant wait to get the hang of this

#47 psilly

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 02:34 PM

Ya, usually I don't dream during the first 3 or 4 hours of sleep either, unless it's during a daytime nap. Definitely keep a dream journal, and if you can, write down the time, too. I found the most powerful thing for me to do when I first started was to record as much as I could about my dreams when I woke up, then read my journal from start to finish before going to sleep at night. Oh, yeah, and if you wake up in the middle of the night from a dream, right it down in your journal right away, or at least jot down what you were doing and who was there to trigger your memory in the morning. And if you ever remember any dialogue, write that down first, as that part of memory seems to fade the fastest.

#48 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 05:48 PM

Yeah, a dream journal is a must. totally worth while no matter what your goals are. and yes putting down the times is important too. i totally agree with what goose said.
sometimes writing events backard chronologically can help too.

#49 sydlexic

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 04:32 AM

well i got really pissed last nite and woke up this morning feeling like shit, but remembering a dream, not lucid, all i clearly remember is my car windscreen was broken, and i keep on nearly remembering things, 'its-on-the-tip-of-the-tongue' style

#50 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 01:14 PM

well thats good. the best thing to do is to not get discouraged. getting little sleep and waking up angry and just plain not remembering any dreams are all things that happen alot and its not your fault. if you dont get discouraged about dreaming it wont really set you back at all. its pure psychology which is what makes it tricky. there really isnt any 2+2=4 math involved. Lucid dreaming is a rather esoteric art. so as long as you dont get discouraged these sleep issues really wont hold you back at all. just stay confident.

as long as you set out each night to remember your dreams (and write them down) as best you can and set out to recognize the dream state you're basically getting closser and closser to lucidity at will every day. I dont know what your day is like but sometimes getting less sleep is helpful. in some cases extremely helpful. anyday that i go to bed around 3am and have to wake up at 6:30 or 7:30 to do something all it takes is an hour nap around noon to have what seems like hours and hours and hours of lucid dreaming. its as if a sleep deprived body given an early afternoon nap has nothing but vivid REM sleep. if my work schedule didnt suck I would sleep on 3-4 hours a night with an hour nap at noon. Its kindof amazing. ofcourse if you dont fall asleep easily during your nap its not going to work. and if you nap for more than an hour chances are you'l have amazing lucid adventures and then not remember a thing because you let youself get into nRem.

Remember the next good sleep will be the next good sleep. it doesnt matter when because you're becomming more and more determined everyday. so when the right conditions are there you'l take off.

#51 manjotar

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 01:52 PM

i have been trying to get (and STAY) lucid for about a year and a half,
but i just can't seem to get the hang of it.
i kept a dream journal for a few months but i haven't been writing in it lately... my bad i guess.
you guys got my interest level on the subject up again, thanks!
i too will keep you updated on my progress...

#52 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 02:03 PM

if staying lucid is where you seem to have the most trouble there's the typical looking at your hands method.. or rubbing your hands together method and all that. there's many other but i find the most valuable one to be holding onto something in the dream world. you'l likley find yourself "waking up in bed" holding something competely different.. but you have to remember if you're holding anything at all apon waking up you're most certainly still dreaming.

#53 sydlexic

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 04:50 PM

its weird, i havent had a decent vivid lucid dream for about a week now, i dont usually go for more tham 2 or 3 days. oh well, maybe its building up for sumthin amazingPosted Image

#54 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 07:59 PM

that's what i would think.

#55 psilly

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 11:38 PM

As far as staying lucid goes, I've found the common method of spinning around works well. Dizziness is a feeling your brain can create, so it can suck you back into the dream. I've also used this to change scenes.
i.e. Focus thoughts on Britney and a hotel room...spin around and around...stop and take a look where I am...and as Quagmyre would say...Alright.
I think how to stay lucid is one of those things you can't really put into words for someone else...you just have to practice until you innately understand. The only way I can say it is to stay lucid you must focus on the immediate moment, the right now, don't think about your daily life, or getting up in the morning, just focus your mind. Meditation helps to develop this clarity - which is why Buddhists have been practicing Tibetan Dream Yoga for thousands of years.

#56 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 10:52 PM

no spinning is a very powerful tool to be certain. i find it works very well for scene changing and staying asleep and dreaming however it actually creates a challenge as far as staying aware goes. there are a couple helpful forms of meditation. one of them actually involves walking around imagining that you're dreaming. (dream rehersal). and the other and more powerful yet alot harder to master is the kind that leads to wake initiated lucid dreams. truly amazing. ive been able to see through my eye lids with this technic. good stuff..

#57 psilly

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 04:43 PM

I'd like to learn more about this wake-initiated lucid dreaming you speak of. I've kind of had this experience the week after a mushroom excursion, but am very interested in other methods of promoting it.
The other night I was reading this thread and really wanted to have a long night of dreaming so I made a weak mushroom tea (0.4g) and smoked a few bowls of salvia leaf. It took a while to go to sleep, as I got a bit higher than expected and had the stereo cranked. But about 30 minutes after I fell asleep I woke from what I call a salvia dream. These are incredibly intense dreams that I never had before smoking salvia, it's like I can feel the malleability of my mind. The first dream of this type I had felt like I was faced with the common hallucinogenic choice between death/eternal knowledge and life/mental prison. I find these dreams amazing, especially since I've never smoked an extract, it's like I prime my mind with a bit of smoked leaf, and the effect becomes amplified in my dream time.

#58 Guest_joe_*

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 06:58 PM

oh boy.. Here comes another long ass post from joe.

okay this shit is heavy.

This technic can be done ANYWHERE. thats the mindset you have to have. if you think "ive gotta be sitting as comfortably as possible" or "ive gotta be laying down with my head juuust right" or "i must be in the lotus position" get any meditational paradighms (spl im just rolling im not going to check spelling) out of your mind. hell sometimes this technique or rather a subtek of this tek (tek... why not) involves just completely going limp no matter where you are and just going with whatever position you find yourself in. I'll get into that later on.

I hope you guys feel privilaged because this is all in the manuscript for my book on consciousness.. and you're getting it first! i dont mind you sharing it with people but it is copyrighted.

Okay. forget breathing excersizes forget progressive muscle relaxation. I developed this tek because i have a hard time breathing in the first place. i found that the more i FOCUSED on breathing like everyone tells you, the more trouble i had breathing and the more trouble i had relaxing. so ignor your breathing!

first of all, you need to asses which of your fives senses is hardest for you to recreate in your mind. For me it happens to be sight. for some reason i can imagine everything else fairly well but i have the darndest time visualizing. okay so then you simply make a list of senses from easiest to hardest to recreate in your mind.

example: tactile easy
audible
taist
olfactory
vision hard

So make your list and then you can begin

Sit down, lay down, whatever. I found just sitting on the train to be a great way to do this. a little discomfort is okay. I'll get into that more later but sufieth to say you need something to ignore. if youre very comfortable you'l be focused on that sensation. you want your body to just be able to do its thing so your mind can go off somewhere else... also you dont want to fall asleep. so once you've got your body situated more or less look around you. get a good sense of whats around you. now just close your eyes and create a mental model of your surroudings using your imaginal sense. starting ofcourse with your easiest. all the while you are passivly ignoring your body. dont worry about it. it will be there when you get back.

example: (using my list)
begin to feel the texture of all the things around you. the textured plastic on the chair in front of you. the smoothness of the stainless steel bars. go ahead and reach out for whats on the ceiling you can touch anything at any distance. now that you have a textural model go back over things and listen to the way it sounds to run your fingers over the metal handles etc.. with senses like taist sometimes you have to improvise but this is good. it brings new elements into your mental model. so if you want imagine a strawberry. the way it feels the way it sounds etc.. then the way it taists. do this all the way to visualization. in some peoples case visualization could be the first thing. you may want to experiement with the order a bit.

so this is where it gets interesting. because now you just allow your mental imagery to take over. you have to get a feel for this but it doesnt take too long. just allow your brain to throw at you whatever it wants. dont mess with it. at first you may not be able to help it. thats okay. but this is the gate way. once you allow these images to take over they will literally take over. you will have entered the dilusionary state. you will know you're there when you no longer have any idea whats going on. granted you'l be in and out of this. that's totally okay too. but the goal is to get to the other side of this coudy non-sensical area. the only way to get there is to completely submerge yourself in it while maintaining a stream of consciousness so it kinda goes like this:

I'm me on the train................... its good to be a carrot.. what?? oh yea.... im on the train... IM AN INTERGALACTIC SPERM PARTICLE THAT IS MEANING ITSELF.. no.. no im just me on the train... etc..

eventually you will competely lose touch with whats going all together and then the next thing you'l see... and its going to be hard to take me seriously but this is how it works for me.... the next thing you'l see is exactly what you were seeing before you closed you eyes accept your eyes are closed... perhaps youre dreaming. some would call this an out of body experience. I just call it (for now until i can do more experimentation) a wake initiated lucid dream. or as stephan laberge would call it it a "WILD"

there are many many variations to this tek.. and honestly you can use whatever "relaxation techinc" works. but remember with this meditation the goal is not relaxation. its a shift of consciousness that we're seeking. we want to completely ignor the body for a time. most likley a bed of nails wouldnt be the worst thing to sit on for this.

There's all kinds of things i could add and all kinds of variations but the main idea is you need to get to that state of mind where the mind takes over competely without actually losing your stream of consciouness. in order to fit through that dark tunnel of dilusion you must narrow your consciousness a bit. sitting up for this helps because whenever you nod even slightly you'l remember that you exist, and you'l remember what you're doing.

so thats all for now. sorry about bad grammer and stuff. i just wanted to get you started. this works amazingly well for me. sometimes i add a 10 to 1 relaxation during the height of the conscious visualizations because with numbers you dont have to focus on any body parts. it helps if you've been hypnotized. and it helps if you occasionlly hypnotize people... okay now im just rambling but in either case im sure i didnt say some things clearly so if you have any questions feel free to post them. i just want to know how your adventures go.

#59 sydlexic

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 04:32 AM

first bit of success last nite, finally!!!
i know i met Al (Alchemist, he is my wisest person imaginable), i remember clearly all the surroundings (a field somewhere).
i realised i was lucid and called out Al, but it was weird, like i was talking with my brain, not my mouth.
anyway, i dont remember what we talked about (or what his face looked like, but i do remember he was very old), and i remember talking to him.
and then, as per f*****g usual i had to get up cos my alarm was going like crazyPosted Image

#60 sydlexic

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Posted 20 May 2004 - 04:35 AM

oh yeah, please dont post the next part of the experiment just yet, i want 2 have a chance to get to know him better, and let other people try to as well. but i dont want to be influenced by knowing what to do next.




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