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Panaeolus Cyanescens Jamaica - spore->LC->fruit substrate->trays


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#21 bluehelix

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:55 PM

Attached is a picture of the bags after 3 days. Notice that it is almost entirely colonized, but I'll let them colonize further for 1 or 2 more days. Given this is the final fruiting substrate, that means we'll likely see our first mushrooms in two weeks. That's fast and easily a week faster than if one creates spawn to inoculate manure. Generally I see this timeline emerge from Pan cyan grows using the LC-to-fruiting-substrate method of this log:

Days 1-7 Liquid culture inoculated from spores matures.
Days 7-12 Bags fully colonize. Trays are laid.
Days 12-19 Trays mature. First pins form.
Days 19-? First flush matures and subsequent flushes form every three to five days (4 to 6 flushes normally)

The most variable thing has been the time from laying the tray to the first pins. I've had it as soon as 5 days to 10 days. Normally it's around 7. Flushes do not always break evenly for me, probably because I use a multi-spore culture. I don't mind that a bit, though, because it's a hassle to create and store a clone, compared to just storing the spores in a vacuutainer.

Attached Thumbnails

  • bags_day3.jpg


#22 bluehelix

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:42 AM

Yesterday I laid the trays (4 days of bag colonization). I waited 24 hours for a nice white coat of mycelium to form and then laid the casing over them today. Attached are pictures of the tray just laid, the tray after a 24-hour mycelium skin formed, the tray cased, and a side view of the tray cased. Trays are currently being incubated at 80F with fog-like conditions via an ultrasonic mister.

Carefully and very evenly spread and fluffed casing soil with fork over trays to a depth of approximately 1/2" (closer to 1/4" in valleys). It was made of:
  • 1 part vermiculite
  • 1 part peat
  • 1 part coco coir
  • 1/15th part (approximate) aragonite crushed coral
  • Enough powdered calcium carbonate to bring pH to 8.2 (It is a long story, but this was a mistake. I should have brought it to 7.2, so this may adversely affect yield. I hope not since casing pH tends to fall pretty anyway after a few days.)
  • Enough water to totally saturate the mix until it was like soup (absorbs a lot of water when cooking)
Casing was only pasteurized in oven until core was 160-170F for a half hour and allowed to fully cool overnight before application.

Attached Thumbnails

  • postcase_tray_side_day0.jpg
  • precase_tray_24hrs.jpg
  • postcase_tray_day0.jpg
  • precase_tray.jpg


#23 spacecake

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 12:00 PM

  • 1/15th part (approximate) aragonite crushed coral
  • Enough powdered calcium carbonate to bring pH to 8.2 (It is a long story, but this was a mistake. I should have brought it to 7.2, so this may adversely affect yield. I hope not since casing pH tends to fall pretty anyway after a few days.)
.


How did you change and measured the Ph ?
Did you add the calcium dry,or did you make kind off a calcium soup(calcium diluted in water),that you added to the mixture.

I'm asking this ,because I can only measure PH in a very wet substrate,so most of the time ..I over water my substrate first ,so I can measure the Ph correctly.

#24 SharkieJones

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 12:49 PM

Great pics, will be checking back on this one.

#25 bluehelix

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 01:25 PM

How did you change and measured the Ph ?
Did you add the calcium dry,or did you make kind off a calcium soup(calcium diluted in water),that you added to the mixture.

I'm asking this ,because I can only measure PH in a very wet substrate,so most of the time ..I over water my substrate first ,so I can measure the Ph correctly.


I am into reef tanks quite a bit, so I invested in one of those Pinpoint pH probes a long time ago. They are accurate to about 0.1 if kept calibrated. Since they only measure the pH of a solution, I just took a little spoon of soil and added it to reverse osmosis water (which has no buffering capacity thus assumes the pH of the soil). If the casing soil is mushy wet enough, one can just put the probe right in it too.

The amount of calcium hydroxide (pickling lime/hydrated lime) to balance this mix is about 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of substrate. You may need more or less, but since it's a powerful base, be careful with it. The calcium carbonate (chalk/regular lime/shell flour) is a weak base that really cannot raise the pH over 7.8 or so no matter how much one adds, so you can add it liberally. I think I used about 1/2 cup per gallon. I bought my calcium hydroxide for pickling at Walmart and the calcium carbonate flour at a beer brewer's supply store. You can also find calcium carbonate many places and used for many purposes.

If one goes over the desired pH by accident, making the substrate too basic, I recommend using citric acid to push it back down. You can also pick that up at a brewer's supply store where it's used for that exact purpose, bringing pH down. Lemon juice is largely citric acid with a bit of sugar, so that might be a good substitute as long as you don't need too much, which could introduce too much sugar and contamination.

#26 spacecake

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 01:32 PM

Thanks Bluehelix..I asked because I did alot of experiments with calcium this year...

#27 eatyualive

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:17 PM

damn bh, i got those same exact caserole dishes. love em!

#28 dial8

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:20 PM

I adore your lc's man. Fantastic looking.
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#29 bluehelix

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:25 PM

damn bh, i got those same exact caserole dishes. love em!


Yeah, I watched pan cyans eat through aluminum heavily and was worried about what sorts of compounds might be introduced into the fruits, so I went out to buy some glass trays. I was pretty stoked to find these at Ross for $6 a piece! You can reuse them and sterilize them in the dishwasher (making them a better environmental choice), and they are the perfect depth for this species.

#30 bluehelix

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:23 PM

Attached is a picture of what the trays look like today, day 2 after casing. The mycelium is going through the soil alright but a little slower than with other grows I've done I think. The slowness is probably either strain related or because the casing soil was overly basic (8.2 rather than closer to 7.2). I think it'll be fully colonized and overlaid as desirable for this species in two more days regardless.

Attached Thumbnails

  • postcase_tray_day2.jpg


#31 bluehelix

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 02:21 PM

The casing is nearly 100% penetrated now. Things seem to be coming along fine despite the higher original pH.

Attached Thumbnails

  • postcase_tray_day3.jpg


#32 spacecake

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 02:28 PM

That casing layer looks great bluehelix...!

#33 ernestro

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:21 AM

holy f*ck what an LC :eusa_droo!

nice thread!

#34 bluehelix

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 12:51 PM

Today I observed the beginning of hyphae knotting, which typically occurs within 24 to 48 hours of the first pins. In the picture several of the round white spots you see are these knots. I expect a harvest by Saturday or Sunday. At this point, this strain seems no harder than any other to grow.

I am going to be out of town for the holidays for one week which, unfortunately, coincides with the harvest. Pictures and harvest will be tended by a old friend. Upon return the first week of December I'll finish this log.

Attached Thumbnails

  • postcase_hyae_knotting_day5.jpg

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#35 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 02:40 PM

cant wait to see this update!!!

#36 bluehelix

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:33 PM

My house sitter had been complaining of the mushrooms growing slowly two days ago. Of course this meant, I knew, something was wrong, but I had assumed it was just the strain. The house sitter said there were thousands of pins waiting to grow so I was hopeful that it was just a weak first flush but he just noticed that the humidifier had leaked out the water. I will look at things for myself tomorrow to try to salvage them, but I assume everything is dead now. Those fucking ultrasonics always leak and have problems like this! It's annoying as hell. It seems the second I leave town for anything, something goes totally whacky about half the time!

Anyway I'll update everyone with pictures of them growing before everything dried up. There is a small chance I can salvage the grow if things did not get too dry, but I assume even if I do, it'll be pathetic yields of hundred or so mushrooms per tray (and these are so tiny that such a yield would be almost nothing).

#37 spacecake

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:17 PM

I've got the same problems here (stalled pins),because I haven't got any humidifier.
I noticed a little dunk can save most of the pins...
Maybe you should try it...worked for me !

#38 buteo

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:30 PM

Wow thats too bad...this thread was going awesome til the end. Youll get back up to where u were.. Thanks for posting this it gave me amazing ideas! :)

#39 bluehelix

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 04:10 AM

I got home and the house was 65F, the chamber a freezing 72F. Apparently the house sitter felt that to save on energy costs, he would turn off the heat in the house, which was a reasonable thought I suppose given I had told him that the chamber was self-sustaining in terms of heat and humidity (which is true). The problem was that the cold air outside the chamber put the heated floor in the chamber on overdrive which evaporated the pool of water below and made the fish heaters turn off as they were out of the water and overheating. The cold house air was also dry once it heated up since cold air at any given humidity becomes a much lower humidity when heated. That heated dry air caused the humidifier to run constantly and run out of water pretty much as the first flush was trying to get off the ground. A handful of mushies somewhat protected from the super dry air in the fish tank novelty container did mature and were picked.

It appears that the pinset on the blocks, although destroyed, was one of the best I've seen in any pan cyan, but the fruits were very small of those that survived and matured in the fish tank. I think part of the smallness could be from adverse environment influence, but it looks to me like the strain itself is very small, however prolific.

I do see pins about 1/2" tall now, but they seems in pretty bad shape to me (not dead, though). Instead of totally worry about them, I've poured water all over the blocks and fixed the environment back to 80F and a 100% RH in hope of sparking them back to life somewhat. I'll drop the humidity slightly tomorrow to promote the development of the existing pins which are about 1/2" tall. It is possible I could get a decent pin set on the next flush given that they were so cold and did not dry out hard enough to kill the topside mycelium. The cold might even serve as a cold shock to promote more pins, but I have my doubts.

Attached Thumbnails

  • flush1_5.jpg
  • flush1_3.jpg
  • flush1_4.jpg
  • flush1_2.jpg
  • flush1_1.jpg


#40 eatyualive

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 10:04 AM

nice work!




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