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The Simplest of TEKS... The Mycobag


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#1 Shady Ways

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 09:26 PM

So here's what I'm thinkin'... There are a number of reasons I'd like to start this discussion (thread). As I've surfed this site and the net in a cursory search for an easy way to re-experience one of the greatest "altered states" ever, I've seen a number of reasons for mycological pursuits. There are several types of people that need a simple, no fuss way to produce shrooms on the dl with limited investment and involvement; family folks with curious kids, headache (cluster/migraine) sufferers and students in close quarters among them.
There are, inarguably, a number of "pros" on this site that can provide insight into the questions and concerns of those with limited time & space to dedicate to this vast art / science.:bow: To you, perhaps we are the unworthy!

To start things off I'll share my personal experience. I jumped in because:
a. Shrooms are the best induced experience of my life.
b. I was "ridiculed" that shrooms are so "old school" I'd have to pay through the nose, IF I could find them.
I started by borrowing (and perhaps enhancing) a tek called "Bags In A Closet."
1. Purchase an 18 gallon Rubbermaid or Sterilite tote at any
retailer($6).
2. At a dollar store pick up a pie pan, an aluminum baking pan, aluminum foil & an inexpensive hand towel($4).
3. Buy a terrarium heating mat (8 watt, 10" x 11") adhesive on
one side.
(http://www.petsmart....Id=2752526)($25).
4. One gallon of distilled water. ($1)
5. One digital thermometer / hygrometer ($7 at Walmart).
6. Fill the pie pan to about one third capacity and seal aluminum foil.
7. Poke about 10-12 holes in the foil using a tooth pick. A pie pan is
used because you need to maximize the water's surface area to promote humidity.
8. Carefully place the covered pie pan into the plastic bin.
9. Remove the adhesive backing from the heating mat and affix to theinterior base of the aluminum baking pan.
10. Invert the baking pan and place it into the bottom of the plastic
tote. Aluminum is both malleable and an effective conductor of heat.
11. Place the hand towel evenly over the aluminum baking pan in a single
layer.
12. Place up to three prepared (spores injected) mycobags into the tote and seal with the lid.
13. Place the digital thermometer/hygrometer on the towel where it is
easily visible.
14. Cover with the lid and plug in the terrarium heater
After 10 days I am seeing condensation, signalling the exchange of
oxygen for carbon dioxide (Krebs Cycle, perhaps). I also had a small room humidifier I placed in the area just to enhance the ambient environment.
It's taken three months, but the Ecuadorian p. cubes are showing great progress!:amazed:
If you masters of the art can help us lowly closet shroomers, you'll be making the world a better place!

I have some questions now that I'm at this point:
1) What could have been done to speed up the process?
2) How will the fruits that are developing where the bag is tightest to the mycelium block grow to maturity?
3) What appearance/traits will the p. cubes have when they're ready to be harvested?

I've opend the bag for an influx of air (based on some of the reading here) and am misting with distilled water every few days. What else would you suggest is important to know at this point?

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#2 cherrylimeade

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 11:10 PM

Hydr0420's Simple Invitro Poo bags, u may even like that better...

i've done millions of these bags, best way to go to deter contams!

#3 M&M420

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 11:16 PM

Seems like you've done your homework.I have one suggestion though.I may be wrong but it might be wise to prop those bags up on something other than the mat.The underside might be getting too hot

#4 Shady Ways

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 06:56 AM

Meanman... actually I believe the bottoms did get a little cooked! I'm getting ready to noc up a second wave (something other than Ecuadorian's this time). Maybe I'll try adding an unused, low end, thin wire, baking rack to provide some elevation.

One thing that worked well about the towel over the aluminum pan was that I could spray it with distilled water to elevate humidity levels in the bin when needed.

Cherrylimeade... I'll take a look see for the poo bags, as well!

#5 Cornfield

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 08:26 AM

im in love with bags myself, u should really try spawning to bulk too man. I did it my first time without problems. you need air movement in your incubator or the bags closest to the heat source will get charred. I turned an old refrigerator into an incubator and used a computer fan on the top and bottom hooked up to a 12V power pack from an old cordless phone base to circulate the air around inside. Before i added the fans the bags closest to the light bulb had some myc die off on me.

#6 Shady Ways

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 03:21 PM

By the way... there are a few things that are probably important to mention here.

It is helpful, I suppose, to give your "pets" the food they like so that they are healthy and thrive. Based on available info online, matching the right growth medium to the right strain is important.

Ecuadorian p. cubes (syringe form) like enriched grain-based media. Reputable sources for both may be:

Bags from The Mycofactory, LLC

https://sporeworks.com/store/home.php?cat=250&sort=productcode&sort_direction=0&page=2

After that it's about sterility, environment and lots and lots of TIME!

Ticking away the hours that make up a dog day, fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way... (Pink Floyd)

Time, keeps flowing like a river... on and on.... (Alan Parsons)

Older, it seems like each day I get older, I keep lookin' over my shoulder and seein' nothin' but gray... (Klaatu)


#7 Shady Ways

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 04:30 PM

Cornfield...I knew holding on to those old PCs would come in handy someday! Thanks for the tip!

#8 Shady Ways

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 09:41 PM

Everyone here has been great and helpful!:cool: I've read through so many threads on so many TEKs and the differences are mindboggling. I need help with several questions, if you please:

The TEK discussed may be Ecuadorian p. cubes in a grain-based mycobag (dim. 4" w x 3" d x 18" tall):

1) Much of the fruiting seems to be occurring on the sides of the bag. Do I need to harvest everything off of the myco-cake (MC) at once or is it "OK" to pull off those fruits (on top) that have reached full maturity?

2) OR should I remove the entire MC from the bag, harvest ALL fruits from the MC and follow with a 24 hr distilled water dunk?

3) Do I need to continue returning the MC to the bag of could I drop in clean Tupperware?

4) How many flushes am I likely to acheive given the info provided (best guess from your experience)?

5) What is the relationship between the flush sequence and potency?

You have all been soooo helpful. Please share once again (as I am sharing all I learn with other noobs... paying it forward)!

Thanks!

#9 PsychoDrogue

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 11:11 PM

i havest my fruits as they start dropping spores. if some start early i start early to prevent the mess. if there are only a few that are behind i'll pick them, but if say half of it still needs another day or two i'll let them finish on their own.

you can put it into a tupperware but i would treat it like any pf cake and take measure to keep the humidity up in the larger area.

if you dont get contams and you dunk between every flush you should get 5-6 really healthy flushes, after that they will probably start putting out smaller numbers but many people have gone for more. I would personally let them go until a fresh MC would prove much more time-efficient (usually 4-5 tops for me)

not sure on if later flushes are more or less potent than early ones. I've never really noticed a difference in potency tho. I only really know when im consuming the first flush tho, after i dry whatever is left of my first and later flushes it all gets combined so i dont know what im eating after that. In any case they are all good for quite a while unless they are stored in crappy conditions.

#10 Shady Ways

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:13 PM

Alright, FOAF decided to take a leap today and remove the PF cake from it's comfortable mycobag. Carefully cleaning all items and wearing latex gloves, using a sterilized blade, the bag was opened and the PF cake was placed in a plastic bin next to dampened (with distilled water) vermiculate, set up on the base of a clean, styrofoam soup cup (never used I might add). The bin's about 12" - 13" in height. Using a hole saw, two holes were drilled into opposing sides, at a diagonal from each other (thinking cross ventilation). Holes were plugged with the microfiber stuff used in pillows. Ambient temp. is holding at 71 degrees. Three months to get this far... very hopeful.

It was noted that there was unabsorbed water in the mycobag, so FOAF hopes that the PF cake is adequately hydrated. There is some uncertainty as to how to continue adequate hydration. Figure vermiculate is to aid humidity, but somewhat skeptical with microfil filters

Photos are attached.

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#11 PsychoDrogue

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:56 PM

Got some nice sized fruits going on there. i haven't tried keeping humidity with the method you are doing but if it stays up it should work.

what i would do is drop about an inch of perlite across the bottom of the entire tub and use it for water retention. you could use your cup like you are or just lay down a square of foil and lay the cake on top of it.

#12 deepdeltablues

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 08:33 PM

I also think you may do better with some perlite on the bottom wetted to field capacity, so not over wet and fan a couple times a day.

#13 Shady Ways

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 09:41 PM

Followed the perlite recommendations and it seems to work like a charm!

Dunked and second flush now appearing...

Thanks for the guidance!

#14 Shady Ways

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:35 PM

I thought I'd do a follow-up to a posting from a few weeks ago and share my lessons learned with other noobs. Here's the original link to a simple TEK I used:

http://mycotopia.net/forums/fungi-growing-edible-medicinal-magic-mushrooms/44431-simplest-teks-mycobag.html

As you read through the original post, you'll see that some experienced mycologists pointed out some things that played out.

Here's a summary of what I learned:

> I noc'd up three bags in the last week of August. The first bag didn't start to pin until the first week of November. I attribute this to instability in environment. Keeping things on the dl was an impediment to stability. One of the bags I actually pitched into the top of a pile of potting soil outside. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised come Spring! Patience has always been a challenge for me, but the "fruits" of my labors ultimately paid off. A third flush is in progress out of the first bag to pin and just as I was about to bail on a second bag (that I pulled out of it's bag) it started pinning!

> I cooked the bottoms by not sufficiently elevating the bags from the incubator heat source. I'm going to introduce plastic grid (the kind used in 2' x 4' ceiling lights) as elevation in both the incubator and the FC next round. Plastic, provided it's not exposed to food or any genetic material, doesn't provide much opportunity for contams.

> Need to improve the tracking method. Noc'd three bags with a 10cc syringe of Ecuadorian (3cc/3cc/4cc), but can't track performance w/o labeling (duh).

> Just because it was the first cultivation attemp, it was silly to assume the fruit would lack potency. SWIM and a FOAF ingested about 3.5 - 4gs ea. from the first flush and were "pinned to the couch" for about two and a half hours! Experienced travellers, they didn't freak! Weeeeee...

> The coolest community for this passion is here on Mycotopia!

UP NEXT:

+ New strains: B+ and PES Hawaiian

+ PF TEK (pre-sterilized and shipped to me) jars, spawning to vermiculite & h poo/straw. Planning to noc up two more bags as an insurance policy, though. It was nice to succeed first time out!!

Thanks for everyone's help... couldn't a done it without ya!

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#15 sagiboy

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:41 AM

nice work.

the cakes looks dry, consider dunk after the flush.

#16 Dr_T

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:04 PM

> Just because it was the first cultivation attemp, it was silly to assume the fruit would lack potency. SWIM and a FOAF ingested about 3.5 - 4gs ea. from the first flush and were "pinned to the couch" for about two and a half hours! Experienced travellers, they didn't freak! Weeeeee...


Crikey! Four grams?!?!?

#17 oakchild

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:50 PM

Crikey! Four grams?!?!?


That is not to large a dose for cubensis. It may be a little much if you are just looking for a good time, but 4-5 grams is about right for a serious shamanic dose.

Blessings,
Oakchild

8-)

#18 Dr_T

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:27 PM

Well, for me, two is plenty. And for a first time, 4 seems a bit bold.

"I'm not judging, just commenting" :)

It's nice that this first grow is going so well- three+ flushes is quite an accomplishment. Another mycology addict!

#19 chimp

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:35 PM

Well, for me, two is plenty.



Same here

#20 oakchild

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:49 PM

And for a first time, 4 seems a bit bold.


It was his FOAFs first grow, not his FOAFs first trip. :lol:

;)

Just because it was the first cultivation attemp, it was silly to assume the fruit would lack potency. SWIM and a FOAF ingested about 3.5 - 4gs ea. from the first flush and were "pinned to the couch" for about two and a half hours! Experienced travellers, they didn't freak!


But you are right! I would not recommend more than 2 grams for a first time experience.

Blessings,
Oakchild

8-)




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