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Woodlover questions


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#1 greenmeanie

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 06:23 PM

I live in an area that produces prolific woodlovers (Ps. Cyanescens) in nature. After reading and re-reading Waylit's Woodlover tek, and also his multiple grow threads :bow:, I have decided I want to try my hand at the caramel caps. I have not grown cubes before (no germination with PF tek) but have read many good reports on Mycobags. I've fruited an already-colonized Agaricus Bisporus kit (very fun and delicious, I would recommend it), but otherwise almost all of my experience is with gardening, not myco-cultivation.

I envision the following:
Ps. Cyanofriscosa spores (more aggressive colonizer than Azure or Cyans?)
Hip's Mycro-mix in filter patch bags

How quickly or slowly could one expect Ps. Cyanofriscosa to colonize a Mycro-mix bag? What are the optimal temps for colonizing woodlovers? Would ~65°F indoors be reasonable? And is it wishful thinking to try invitro fruiting directly from the bag?

The dream would involve colonizing the mycobags over the winter, then spawning to an outdoor bed of alder chips in the spring. I have a spot picked out that gets mostly shade during the day, and has been neglected for too long.

The reason I am wanting to try woodlovers in mycobags is due to the fear of contaminants. From what I understand, a clean syringe and clean mycobag will be likely to stay free of contams, and spawning to woodchips outdoors will not allow any to invade. Is there any flaw with my idea?

I just ordered a t-shirt from the Mood Doculators, and I hope they still have some of Waylit's Ps. Cyanofriscosa prints on hand. But prints are not syringes, and I have NO experience with sterile technique. If I do find myself in the possession of a print, I'd be willing to trade someone the print for the service of making me a single sterile syringe. That is, if my idea above isn't completely broken :laser:

Looking forward to your comments!

#2 waylitjim

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 07:16 PM

I live in an area that produces prolific woodlovers (Ps. Cyanescens) in nature.


Since you're fortunate to live in cyan country, the easiest way to grow them would be to find a patch and transfer some colonized woodchips home with you. Have you had any luck hunting?

How quickly or slowly could one expect Ps. Cyanofriscosa to colonize a Mycro-mix bag? What are the optimal temps for colonizing woodlovers? Would ~65°F indoors be reasonable? And is it wishful thinking to try invitro fruiting directly from the bag?


Cyans, azures, friscosas...they're all very similar with regards to colonization speed. Woodlovers take an enormous amount of patience and resilience, but once you build some healthy spawn, they're quite easy. 65°F is a good temp for colonizing. You won't be able to fruit them invitro, they need to be fruited outdoors, in the ground or in tubs.

The reason I am wanting to try woodlovers in mycobags is due to the fear of contaminants. From what I understand, a clean syringe and clean mycobag will be likely to stay free of contams, and spawning to woodchips outdoors will not allow any to invade. Is there any flaw with my idea?


One important thing to remember is that all woodlover prints and syrings are NOT guaranteed to be sterile. Since the mushrooms grow outdoors, they're exposed to the elements. So if wind blown bacteria lands on the gills...the print may be contaminated. You're best bet is to get yourself familiar with agar plates. This way you can transfer healthy rhizomorphic growth to a grain jar. Healthy grain = healthy spawn. If you don't want to use agar try this... Inject spores into a popcorn jar. Let the jar colonize for 4 weeks. Dump the jar onto clean newspaper. Seperate any contaminated kernels from the healthy ones, then transfer the popcorn to pasteurized woodchips. This works pretty well. Have fun :D

#3 hungryjim

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 08:31 PM

:bow:hats off tp waylitjim!!!!---I'd love to learn more of the woodlovers!

#4 greenmeanie

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 03:50 AM

Since you're fortunate to live in cyan country, the easiest way to grow them would be to find a patch and transfer some colonized woodchips home with you. Have you had any luck hunting?

I have had luck hunting, but the few patches i've found this year (late season compared to last year, when I learned to hunt) have been completely ravaged by overzealous fellow hunters. One patch actually got raked, I assume by a groundskeeper who did not want people getting high off the land.


Cyans, azures, friscosas...they're all very similar with regards to colonization speed. Woodlovers take an enormous amount of patience and resilience, but once you build some healthy spawn, they're quite easy. 65°F is a good temp for colonizing. You won't be able to fruit them invitro, they need to be fruited outdoors, in the ground or in tubs.

That sounds like good news. I will try colonizing some mycobags with fresh neighborhood spawn. Thank you for the advice.

One important thing to remember is that all woodlover prints and syrings are NOT guaranteed to be sterile. Since the mushrooms grow outdoors, they're exposed to the elements. So if wind blown bacteria lands on the gills...the print may be contaminated. You're best bet is to get yourself familiar with agar plates. This way you can transfer healthy rhizomorphic growth to a grain jar. Healthy grain = healthy spawn. If you don't want to use agar try this... Inject spores into a popcorn jar. Let the jar colonize for 4 weeks. Dump the jar onto clean newspaper. Seperate any contaminated kernels from the healthy ones, then transfer the popcorn to pasteurized woodchips. This works pretty well. Have fun :D


I have never even been near an agar plate since 9th grade when we grew bacteria in high school. So I will see where local Ps. Cyanescens spawn and mycobags + alder chips will get me.

Again, thanks Waylit for the advice. Every time I read your Woodlover threads :bow:, I get an itch to go outside and crawl among the tall grasses :weedpoke: hunting for the caramel caps...

Now it's time to scrounge up some funds in these tough economic times...

#5 Subbalteatus

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:28 AM

Hey Waylit,


When you mentioned popcorn and news paper and then wood chips.. would this work with Ovoids for summer fruits?? Arent they woodlovers as well?

I know they like sandy soil with well rotted wood right???

Peace, Subbal

#6 golly

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:30 AM

Ovoids culture is the same really..Only they fruit as temps warm up and Cyans fruit as things cool down...

GM..If your getting a print ,all u need is a glove box,shot glass and syringe to make your own innoculant..
Or you can just scrape a few spores directly into grain jars [ also in a glove box]
Make a half dozen jars and chances are that some will grow clean..

#7 waylitjim

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 03:02 PM

GM..If your getting a print ,all u need is a glove box,shot glass and syringe to make your own innoculant.. Or you can just scrape a few spores directly into grain jars [ also in a glove box] Make a half dozen jars and chances are that some will grow clean..


Good point Golly, no need to even make a syringe.
If you have some sterile grain jars, you're good to go.

#8 greenmeanie

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 04:06 PM

I believe I'll try spawning locally-gathered mycelium to hydrated alder chips before testing my sterile technique. Waylit, about what ratio of spawn to chips would you suggest? And should composted manure or soil amender be added to the hydrated woodchips before distributing in the ground? My concerns at this point would involve other species invading before the Cyanescens mycelium becomes established, or a hard frost stalling growth before overwintering. Do my fears have any basis?

If I were to try germinating a spore print, I guess grain jars would be better than bags, as the lid on a jar can be replaced after opening. Is there any particular grain that woodlovers colonize more quickly than others? I see mycrotopia has WBS, popcorn, BRF supercake, rye grain, and rye grass seed.

#9 golly

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:51 PM

Rye grass seed is a favorite for woodlovers but any grain or cake will colo..
Popcorn appears to colo's fast but doesn't create more mycelium than other methods..
If your dropping spores on the grain then it helps if the jars can be shaken to speed things along..

I don't think there is any benefit to mixing in manure with W chips..
If transfering a wild clump, try to keep the section intact, rather than breaking up to spawn new wood..
If concerned about weather, preditors or other fungi , u can grow in a well draining tub
until you have enough for a natural patch..
Better to periodically add fresh chips than dump in a whole load at once, so other fungi
have less chance to compete...

#10 Myc

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:59 PM

I second rye grass seed as a favored substrate. Anything works but I start with rye grass seed, transfer to wheat berries, and finally to wild birdseed.

Agar culture is not that difficult and well worth the study. No fancy equipment needed.

#11 greenmeanie

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

OK so the plan for my cat is as follows: As soon as he gets his BBQ smoker set up, he will hydrate a portion of alder chips overnight. (1.25 tbsp bleach to 1 gallon room temp tap water) After hydration, the chips will be drained and set aside. I assume the bleach water does not need to be rinsed out of the chips and may provide a barrier against invasion of unwanted species.

Then my cat will locate a healthy fruiting wild patch and dig up a portion containing stembutts. How deep should he dig, just until he stops seeing white mycelium? This divot will be replaced with a pile of hydrated alder chips. The spawn chunk will be placed into a well-draining tub and covered on all sides with a layer of chips. Should there be a hydrated cardboard mat below? The total volume of chips will be approx 2:1 of the spawn volume, or just enough to ensure all sides of the brick are in contact with hydrated alder.

As far as incubation goes, should this tub be covered or uncovered? Water every few days or neglect? Outside or inside? Temps for the next week look like 55°F day / 45°F night, with increasing probability of rain through the week.

Are there any precautions my cat should take besides washing everything well with soap and water before embarking on this endeavor?


EDIT: Upon re-re-reading Waylit's tek, do not see drainage holes in his tub, only FAE holes in the foil covering. What temps do you incubate your Ps. Cyans at Waylit?

#12 Myc

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:40 PM

Those puppies will incubate between 60*F and 75*F.
Here's how I do mine:
http://mycotopia.net...ver-08-too.html

Also, you can crush up a Vit. B Complex tablet and put it in your soak water. My experiments show that B vitamins speed colonization.

The bleach will gas off very quickly when exposed to light and oxygen so there is no lasting protection.

oops...just noticed that the question was directed @ Waylit
hope this helps :)

#13 greenmeanie

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 12:52 AM

Thanks myc for the advice. I'll look into Vit B soaking the chips.

#14 golly

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:59 AM

If your leaving the tub outside ,you need drainage ,in case it rains or u over water...
Tub must have fresh air to prevent mold..50s-70s is good for colo [70 optimum]
Hot water is better than bleach for past..I like to add a Tbsp of blackstrap molasses per gal boiling water..

#15 Myc

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:34 AM

Gollly, glad to see you weigh in on this one!
How are your forced fruiting efforts going?

I've found that the POV are very resistant to contams but they are reluctant to fruit. Fruiting on temp rise eh? Any luck yet?

#16 golly

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:01 PM

Myc - I just got the one flush, then temps really warmed up too much..
Replanted everything back in a mulch bed for spring fruit...

#17 greenmeanie

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:57 PM

Golly, you suggest against bleach in the hydration water... Instead, should tap water be boiled, poured over chips, and let to sit overnight with a pinch of powdered B-100 Complex? Or add chips and vitamins to boiling water and continue boiling until chips sink, then drain and cool?

Myc, any more pics of your tubs? :)

#18 Myc

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:22 PM

Just took these photos.
This tub has been in the 'fridge @ 40*F for a little over 2 months.

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#19 golly

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 11:57 PM

Yeah, sounds about right with the water,tap is fine..Bleach fumes can be trapped for quite some time in the chips ..Mycelium doesn't like chlorine gas...
When you have a choice, keep it natural...

#20 waylitjim

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 01:09 PM

Just took these photos.
This tub has been in the 'fridge @ 40*F for a little over 2 months.


Lookin good Myc, have you considered a thin layer of organic potting soil on top? From my experience, having a soil layer really encourages fruiting. It also prevents the top layer of wood chips from drying out.




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