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Ammo shortages begin...


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#21 catdaddy

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:03 PM

Supply and demand may indeed be causing ammo supplies to be scarce, but manufacturers will find a way to catch up ususally- The demand surely has not escaped their notice.

I wonder if you can explain to me what the "words of fear" were that caused the price of oil to skyrocket last summer.

We did not suddenly double our demand, that's for sure.

I submit that those who have the money to speculate on oil commodities created the rise, through flaws in our trading system outside the realm of supply and demand. Did they do so because they were scared of something- or to make a profit? The latter seems the more plausible.

It's not "conspiracy theory" to watch policies being implemented that accomplish what a candidate/elected official stated that he wished to do.

Mr. Obama, on his own website, long before the election, made no bones about his opinion on gun ownership.

He made other statements about driving up the costs of energy, increasing the size and scope of government (read that, removing your liberties), and changing America (into a more Socialist country, apparently) that he has not failed to follow up on in a major way.

Why would he NOT follow up on making gun ownership impractical, if not illegal?

I submit that as the number of citizens upset with the phenomenal wasteful spending rises, it will be accompanied by an increasing tightening of restrictions on our second amendment rights, be it in the form of confiscatory taxation, or outright gun bans.

We will see soon enough.

#22 Hippie3

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:52 PM

wonder if you can explain to me what the "words of fear" were that caused the price of oil to skyrocket last summer.


no problemo,
the russians kicked off the panic
by invading the republic of georgia,
threatening vital oil pipelines.

#23 Irishlion

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:55 PM

guess that means you will have to use the ONE SHOT ONE KILL method instead of just spraying projectiles everywhere.

#24 Hippie3

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:59 PM

well, you don't really kill a paper target

#25 Irishlion

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:06 PM

well, you don't really kill a paper target




indeed :lol:

#26 Frank_Happy

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:13 PM

I have a solution to the whole oil problem. We need to, as a country more like a team, find something better for these false-ass "environment" activists to do with their mouths than convince people in America that it's morally wrong to drill all of Alaska for oil. If we did that, and I have done the math, we wouldn't have to rely on foreign petroleum at all. I know the reason this hasn't happened is the same reason for most of our problems. It is a combination of the facts that most people don't know how to think for themselves and that their priorities are all disheveled. Drill Alaska, boycott foreign oil, and become self stable in that area alone if nothing else. Too much politics and not enough sense.

#27 Irishlion

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:16 PM

I have a solution to the whole oil problem. We need to, as a country more like a team, find something better for these false-ass "environment" activists to do with their mouths than convince people in America that it's morally wrong to drill all of Alaska for oil. If we did that, and I have done the math, we wouldn't have to rely on foreign petroleum at all. I know the reason this hasn't happened is the same reason for most of our problems. It is a combination of the facts that most people don't know how to think for themselves and that their priorities are all disheveled. Drill Alaska, boycott foreign oil, and become self stable in that area alone if nothing else. Too much politics and not enough sense.




Dude your post is way off topic man, stay on topic of thread, if you want to rant about oil create you own thread, this one is about ammo.

#28 Frank_Happy

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:21 PM

Oh, and as for ammo... I'm stocking up on all the .22 long rifle and 12 gauge ammo I can as soon as I can because I do not know when the next price hike will be. I want to buy a large stockpile of 12 gauge AA buckshot, but it is nearly ten dollars for a five pack now. My latest strategy is to buy a reloader and 100 packs of target load. Every time I practice shoot, I'll collect up the spent shells and reload them with heavy lead and much powder.

#29 catdaddy

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:29 PM

One shot- One kill...

Always have! I'm more concerned about hunting ammo, actually. The reason I've been going through the 9mm is that I'm teaching the kitten to shoot with accuracy.

Hip, I recall the issue with the pipelines, but I thought the big deal was the natural gas for heating. I'm sure other petroleum products are in that pipeline as well... Certainly didn't hear THAT from the media here, though- they were all over the EVIL oil companies, and speculators. What I found funny was that the gas company that was being told they didn't pay their bill-which they hotly contested- is a STATE-OWNED company (Russian)....

Sounds like an EXCUSE to me, and a thin one, for "testing" an invasion of Georgia.

The gas incidentally DID get cut off to lots of Europe, long after fuel prices here had dropped WAAAAY back...as I recall....The last thing I heard they were running on the company's reserves- but then again, I SELDOM listen to the news on TV, and the ultra-conservative right wing extremist warmongers and haters I DO listen too probably passed that over for less important news.

Like the current plan to make peons and economic slaves out of us all.

Anyway, feel free to bring me up to speed on the details of all that. Did it get ironed out? I guess it did.

Let me see if I can get a grip on this. The Russians invade Georgia, causing panic over availability of oil FROM Russia, TO Europe.

So either the Europeans started buying vast quantities of oil from OUR suppliers, causing a price rise, per the laws of supply and demand...

OR

Speculators in the market saw the opportunity to use this panic to rape us some more. When it all got eventually ironed out, prices fell again- with out the DEMAND (globally) for oil actually changing, except for the normal seasonal changes.

So, did fear cause the demand to drive up prices, or the speculators using that as an excuse? Actually, they don't need one, they can drive up prices (or ruin economies) at will.

Cause he who has the gold, makes the rules.

Hmmm, reminds me of another scenario where PANIC/CRISIS causes people to do all kinds of weird things, actually creating the problem they're concerned about....

Sorry for the rambling, that's the way my mind works- if you can call it that.

My apologies for OT, Irish- I already wrote this in response to an earlier deviation from topic, involving the gas shortage and the postulation that fear played a role in that rise in prices.

I could delete it now, but it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

#30 Hippie3

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:41 PM

Oh, and as for ammo... I'm stocking up on all the .22 long rifle and 12 gauge ammo I can as soon as I can because I do not know when the next price hike will be. I want to buy a large stockpile of 12 gauge AA buckshot, but it is nearly ten dollars for a five pack now. My latest strategy is to buy a reloader and 100 packs of target load. Every time I practice shoot, I'll collect up the spent shells and reload them with heavy lead and much powder.

ok, frank
just a couple things-
do not load extra powder in modern weapons-
the pressures created are much higher than
old fashioned black powder;
you could easily ruin the weapon
and seriously injure yourself/bystanders.
ditto for extra lead-
more weight = more pressure in the barrel.

btw
buckshot is labelled by #0, not AA.
as in double-aught #00

Buckshot loads of several types are also offered in 12 gauge for hunting and self-defense purposes. They come in both 2 3/4 inch hulls and 3 inch hulls. Buckshot sizes run 000, 00, 0, 1, and 4. For example, there are usually 12 size 00 buck in a 2 3/4 inch shell, and 15 size 00 buck in a 3 inch shell. There are 41 size 4 buck in a 3 inch case.


cf. http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

#31 Hippie3

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:52 PM

cat-
the pipeline i refer to is not russian,
the russian lines were in no danger
although you are right about the
conflict between russia and the ukraine.
that did contribute to the price spike.
but the pipelines in georgia that were
threatened by the russian invasion are
the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC), Baku-Supsa and Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum pipelines,
as well as the ports of Batumi, Poti and Kulevi.

#32 catdaddy

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 07:35 PM

Thanks for the info.

What I'm still trying to figger out is how fear plays into the oil situation.

I wrote a piece on how I figger the oil price fluctuations happened- but it was MOSTLY OT, so I started a new thread.

Anyway, everyone I know who is stocking up on guns and ammo (or food) l tells me they are not FEARFUL- just REALLY concerned and taking steps to protect themselves and their families in any way they can.

#33 suckerfree

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:04 PM

ok, frank
just a couple things-
do not load extra powder in modern weapons-
the pressures created are much higher than
old fashioned black powder;
you could easily ruin the weapon
and seriously injure yourself/bystanders.
ditto for extra lead-
more weight = more pressure in the barrel.


from what i understand, just seating the bullet too deep in the casing will cause extra pressure too.... too much powder + less area (deep seated bullet) ka boom.

#34 squizzlix

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 12:20 AM

Supply and demand may indeed be causing ammo supplies to be scarce, but manufacturers will find a way to catch up ususally- The demand surely has not escaped their notice.

I wonder if you can explain to me what the "words of fear" were that caused the price of oil to skyrocket last summer.

We did not suddenly double our demand, that's for sure.

I submit that those who have the money to speculate on oil commodities created the rise, through flaws in our trading system outside the realm of supply and demand. Did they do so because they were scared of something- or to make a profit? The latter seems the more plausible.

It's not "conspiracy theory" to watch policies being implemented that accomplish what a candidate/elected official stated that he wished to do.

Mr. Obama, on his own website, long before the election, made no bones about his opinion on gun ownership.

He made other statements about driving up the costs of energy, increasing the size and scope of government (read that, removing your liberties), and changing America (into a more Socialist country, apparently) that he has not failed to follow up on in a major way.

Why would he NOT follow up on making gun ownership impractical, if not illegal?

I submit that as the number of citizens upset with the phenomenal wasteful spending rises, it will be accompanied by an increasing tightening of restrictions on our second amendment rights, be it in the form of confiscatory taxation, or outright gun bans.

We will see soon enough.


the words of fear i speak of are
the simple 2 words."gas shortage"
like the simple 2 words "ammo shortage".
the media dictates what people need for the most part..
..."tickle me elmo" is a good example of this.
unlikely any 2 year old said "i want a tickle me elmo for christmas"...
...but the media said...."the tickle me elmo is the toy your kid will want"...
thus fist fights on the day after thanksgiving for an
overpriced $40 stuffed toy in order to keep up with the neighbors.

last years gas shortage.
i live in a place that physically ran out of gas.
people were fighting in lines for $4 a gallon gas,
those who didn't need gas were driving WAAAAAY out of the way to get gas....thus wasting gas.
they were filling up milk jugs so no one else could have any.
for about 3-4 days there was NO GAS...
because......?
2 simple words..."gas shortage".
the news wouldn't lie to us.

which brings us to "ammo shortage".
i don't buy ammo so this doesn't pertain to me.
but the effects appear to happen the same.
in the beginning there was the word.
words create scenarios in peoples heads.
imaginations create real situations.

i bet if they came on the news and said "crouton shortage"...
..."your salads just won't be the same"....the next day
you would go the the local grocer and find empty shelves
where the croutons used to be....
until everyone realizes there is no crouton shortage....
...besides the one they created.

i do understand the cause for alarm.
but personally,
i know for a fact that everything is going to be ok.

and if a president can wave his hands and make firearms
illegal....well...he wouldn't be president for much longer.
i don't have a problem with making AK-47s illegal...and grenade launchers...and all the military type weapons....i'll vote for that.
but the day actual self defense weapons are made illegal....
just isn't going to happen.
we have the numbers.
don't need guns when you have the numbers.

so,
who needs an elmo?
i got a closet full of em'.

peace out my friends.
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#35 Oblivion

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 06:00 AM

ok, frank
just a couple things-
do not load extra powder in modern weapons-
the pressures created are much higher than
old fashioned black powder;
you could easily ruin the weapon
and seriously injure yourself/bystanders.
ditto for extra lead-
more weight = more pressure in the barrel.

btw
buckshot is labelled by #0, not AA.
as in double-aught #00


cf. http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm


Pay close attention reloaders. Hippie3 speaks the truth. Been reloading for 20 years now and as much as I like to fuck around, I don't fuck around when it comes to reloading. Do your homework and understand what you're doing.

#36 catdaddy

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:45 AM

"i do understand the cause for alarm.
but personally,
i know for a fact that everything is going to be ok."

Really? What facts lead you to believe that?

Things have not been "ok" for generations now,

with government growing, increasing taxes, reduced liberties,

pick your own "set" of problems.

So, what makes you so sure everything is going to be ok?

If you have facts, hell, we could set the world at ease right now and breeze right through the problems that all of the world is facing, knowing it will all be ok.

You laugh and poke fun at anyone concerned that government policies- and I DON"T mean JUST Obama- will be deleterious if not disasterous to our society and the world at large...

And then tell us that you KNOW for a FACT that everything is going to be OK. Without saying WHY.

Let's hear your ideas.

And some historical or empirical evidence to back them up would be nice, too.


#37 Hippie3

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 08:34 AM

cat
do you believe in god ?

#38 catdaddy

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:14 AM

As a matter of fact I do.

I certainly do not understand Him, at least as well as I'd like to.

I also believe, and I brand myself deeply here, in the accounts of the end times given in the Bible- although being fraught with symbolism I cannot for the life of me tell you exactly how all this will play out.

I too believe that in the end, all WILL be Wonderful- at least for some, on an Earth that is the Paradise it was meant to be.

I also believe things are going to be living hell at some point between now and then, sooner rather than later.

And I can articulate why I think so. I don't believe I can give any FACTS that would sway those who strongly believe in government as our saviour to believe otherwise, but I can point at similar incidents in history as an indicator of outcomes.

And to economic authorities.

And even to other deluded ultra conservative (read that Libertarian) right wing warmongers and haters who think as I do- that we are being shafted and lied to by the government daily.

All I asked for was some evidence or explanation to back his position.

Perhaps, after all, it's the same as mine.
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#39 Hippie3

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:44 AM

que sera, sera.
no point in anguishing away your life,
stressed out over what is beyond your control.
focus on what's in front of you,
and trust god with the rest.
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#40 squizzlix

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 10:36 AM

the fact is...well...
we are here right now.
2 complete strangers,
having a conversation on the internet.
we've made it this far,
through far worse times.


the world truly is what you make of it,
and my world is going to be just fine.




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