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Extreme's Excessive Water Spice Extraction


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#41 extrememetal43

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:43 PM

Im saying in this particular extraction using the bark available that was also the same bark used in previous experiments. this same batch of bark has undergone an a/b, STB, and now this a/b with excessive water. the stb yielded all white absolutely pure kick ass stuff. the yield as i remember was maybe .7 i dont exactly remember. it was the first couple extractions done im sure a few things could be done to get a lil more yield.

and a/b was done with phosphoric acid and the yield was .86 with naptha pulls and it came to a final yield of 1.16 or slighly off white after the FASA pulls. not as nice as the STB but absolutley kick ass stuff.

this excessive water a/b the yield is already better than the phosphoric a/b but i mean its pulling mad impurities. just in that one batch FASA recrystaled 27% impurites out of that 1.5 grams. apply that to the 7 grams of yellow pulls and the yield goes way down.

im saying compared to the previous experiments with this particular bark this style of extraction is providing a headache with all these oils and i saying the added yield over the other extractions is impurities.

Now a few posts up i state that this extraction could be done a lot better and i gave a few recomendations to improve it. i believe these improvements of which a defat was the most important step a tek like this can provide 1% of absolute white spice like that in the pic.

But you have to consider everything! i mean is it really worth two weeks of extra work and two weeks dealing with oils and recrystalizing to get a .1% increase in yield.

Also, this is what happened in this particular situation for this dude with this bark. i dont expect all barks and solvents and different acids etc to produce the same results.

Sorry this is not a tek its an experiment. if you read thru this tek there is a fuckload of learning going on. a lot of hypothesising and opinions. if you read close enough there is a lot of info that can be applied to other teks and to extractions in general.

i already said that the acids may have caused the oils and also the boiling of the acid soaks. i already recomended a defat but one was not done before with an a/b and no excessive oils were a problem. But i will also say this its my opinion at some point with all the extra water you are pulling more oils than spice. if your after the spice and dont give a shit about the oils then ya go water go. but if youd like to avoid the oils at some point theres less benefit than risk.

Ive also noted in this tek that when dpwishy did his additional acid soaks his was an additional .13% i believe of exceptionally white spice so go figure that one out. i mean he did the initial a/b then did a complete seperate extract after the fact and he did not get a bunch of impurities he got white spice. maybe he did a defat idk i dont think it was stated. maybe the defats all you need idk?

But after seeing all types of extractions done and seeing and testing the results i really just want to say that the STB tek is by far the easiest as far as work and mess and provides the cleanest ending material not necesitating any recrystals that ive seen so far.
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#42 extrememetal43

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:47 PM

what exactely do you mean by "this"? using excessive water? using a wide array of questionable acids? not doing a defat?

if your dissin on using 'excessive' water Im gunna have to step in and defend her honor... :ballbat:, my last batch using wayyy excessive water (20+ gallons per kilo), ascorbic acid only, 3 hot toluene defats, 2 hot naptha defats, 5 hot naptha pulls, substantial evaporation, one freeze precip, and ONE recrystal got me a solid 1.2% yield of FLAWLESS glass spice plus another .1-.12% yield of really yellow spice on top of that, it dont look too pretty but it will form a stable solid at room temp and knock you to the grounnnnd if smoked. 1.3-1.32% total smokable yield, if its was ALL combined it would appear snow white. plus I have 3 hot toluene pulls done on the same solution after naptha pulls that i have yet to do anything with, who knows what could be in there. I propose instead calling this the "excessive water tek" it be called the "water tek" and other teks be called "insufficient water tek" haha jus kiddin, but seriously tho dont diss on the excessive water...


just wondering if you did a stb or a marsofold style a/b on this same bark you used the excessive water with and what the yield was on a more standard tek?

#43 extrememetal43

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:01 PM

I guess by "this' i meant the overall extraction. id say it was the combo of excess water, incorrect acid, no defats, using used naptha. all of that contributed to the impurities. i would like to see the results if repeated with my recs but i am never gona do that much work. sounds like maybe youve already dun it.

#44 AndyLandy420

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:31 PM

I guess by "this' i meant the overall extraction. id say it was the combo of excess water, incorrect acid, no defats, using used naptha. all of that contributed to the impurities. i would like to see the results if repeated with my recs but i am never gona do that much work. sounds like maybe youve already dun it.

i have not done an stb on this paticular bark, i have done a more standard a/b with it and got more like .9%-1% of white (compared to 1.2% glassssss). It really is a trade off, lots more work for not lot more spice, i guess its just a matter of principle, I (for now) am willing to put in the long hours of work just so i can sleep at night knowing I didnt pour dmt down the drain. thats why i dont preach about it, its a BBITTCCHH!!!!, its an unbelievable bitch, my last batch was 3000g bark, probably no one except you me and duaut can imagine the difficulty involved in doing an excessive water approach on 3000g, It literally became like a full time job for over a month, its was absurd! 60-80 gallons of mimosa tea had to be obtained and then boiled down to a workable amount, chills jus thinkin about it. I dont like doing the work but some ones gotta do it, I have a new approach on the horizon, very optimistic... keep on extractin bruthas :love:

#45 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:32 AM

ya maybe this whole process is getting to me...it was started a month ago no joke. the reason y it was done was bc the molecule is so precious it shouldnt be flushed down the drain but now even the hardcore spice fanatic is saying too much work for not enough gain. if i did an a/b i would no doubt do 2 gallon per pound at least but the work is unbelievable. 3 kg...damn! filtering a hp during acid soaks is so much work then that times 10. but at the same time with 3 kg a .1 increase in yield is 3 grams...thats a lot of potential life changing experiences.

#46 Oblivion

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:52 AM

60-80 gallons of mimosa tea had to be obtained and then boiled down to a workable amount, chills jus thinkin about it. I dont like doing the work but some ones gotta do it,


I'm a small timer when it comes to DMT but I have processed 250 pounds of grapes (65 gallons of wine) twice and no one can truly appreciate the labor that goes into large scale projects except for those that have done the work. Tell me I'm wrong but the true rewards come when your friends get blasted from your hand crafted product. Tis a good feeling.
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#47 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:15 AM

every bit of work was worth it when that dude got blasted and saw the creation of the universe! i mean ya when its all done i would of done 10 times the work to give someone one good experience. i mean thats the feeling of a job well done man!

#48 Oblivion

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:22 AM

I am with you there brother. Giving of yourself is the shit.

#49 AndyLandy420

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

hell yeah, someones gotta do it. :headbang:

#50 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 09:32 AM

Just buildin a fire!

#51 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:51 PM

just a thought...

if you were doing a STB would it matter if you added the bark to the water before the lye. my thought is if you soak the bark in water first then basify youd actually be doing a short acid portion on the bark. altho no acid was added the bark has plenty acidity to make the water acidic.

my thought is there is a small portion of oils that an a/b brings that a STB avoids because they can never be leached out of the bark under basic conditions. all theory jus bullshittin! so if you prepare basic water first then add bark it could avoid this if its even real.

as i read teks throughout the years i always just assumed you add bark to water then basify.

also, could you use this to an advantage and do a mix a/b and stb. do an acid soak on the bark then instead of filtering just basify everything bark and all then continue with the extraction.

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 01:13 PM

what exactely do you mean by "this"? using excessive water? using a wide array of questionable acids? not doing a defat?

if your dissin on using 'excessive' water Im gunna have to step in and defend her honor... :ballbat:, my last batch using wayyy excessive water (20+ gallons per kilo), ascorbic acid only, 3 hot toluene defats, 2 hot naptha defats, 5 hot naptha pulls, substantial evaporation, one freeze precip, and ONE recrystal got me a solid 1.2% yield of FLAWLESS glass spice plus another .1-.12% yield of really yellow spice on top of that, it dont look too pretty but it will form a stable solid at room temp and knock you to the grounnnnd if smoked. 1.3-1.32% total smokable yield, if its was ALL combined it would appear snow white. plus I have 3 hot toluene pulls done on the same solution after naptha pulls that i have yet to do anything with, who knows what could be in there. I propose instead calling this the "excessive water tek" it be called the "water tek" and other teks be called "insufficient water tek" haha jus kiddin, but seriously tho dont diss on the excessive water...


in your defats, how much toluene / naptha did you use per kilo? or did you just keep doing defats till the solvents came off clear? was a sep funnel used? thnx.

#53 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 01:26 PM

i think it can be said that if you do plan to do an a/b with excessive water that defats are a mandatory step. they're not optional as many even myself will say during a standard a/b.

#54 Guest_potatoskill_*

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 02:32 PM

yea but how much solvent to use for the defat??

#55 extrememetal43

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 02:35 PM

a defat wasnt done during this experiment. andy gave all the info about the defats...hes gots the knowledge.

#56 AndyLandy420

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 06:12 PM

in your defats, how much toluene / naptha did you use per kilo? or did you just keep doing defats till the solvents came off clear? was a sep funnel used? thnx.

I tend to kind of play it by ear how much, its not extremely yellow even on the first one, i always do them piping hot, right off the stove usually right after I know its concentrated enough. my general guideline is 200-250ml naptha total per expected gram spice for the actual pulls not the defats, So if processing a kilo do 4 pulls of 600ml naptha (2400ml total, should be plenty for 10-12 grams from a kilo). and as far a defat i would do 2-3 hot defats with toluene, 300mls each pullm and then 2 300ml pulls with naptha (also done hot). final naptha pull should come out clear, if its not then you got some oily shit, keep going. its not really written in stone, there is not a TREMENDOUS amount of oil in there but there is enough to piss you off later cuz its hard to remove after basification.

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 03:35 PM

ah right on, so pretty much till the defats come off clear.

so u say u do them hot.. do you warm up the auqueous solution too?? I'd assume if you heat up the toluene and mix it with a cool auqueous solution, the toluene isnt going to stay hot for long...

extreme, I appologize if im jacking ur thread..

#58 extrememetal43

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:52 PM

jack all you want...i plan on goin so off topic in this thread soon. i mean theres a lot of info here so as long as your asking good questions and learnin its all good.

#59 tenjin

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 05:12 PM

also, could you use this to an advantage and do a mix a/b and stb. do an acid soak on the bark then instead of filtering just basify everything bark and all then continue with the extraction.

Ya I would be interested in the results of this, if it is even necessary, as I have wondered the same thing before, mixing a/b and stb, or if it is even worth it without filtering.

#60 extrememetal43

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 05:21 PM

It may get tried, actually dude is doing a STB now w basing b4 adding the bark to compare with the excess water one.

ya the mix a/b stb theres no reason y it wouldnt work may be worth a check see...hell some of us got nuthin better to do or just love experimenting.




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