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Oven sterilization of whole grains log....


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#41 Lazlo

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 02:02 PM

Not PE6, Redboy. It could be a pain though. I may have to use the spores I got for MEA because they were so few of them. I hydrated a small square of the paper with some spores and then added it to the grain. So this jar might be a nodda. We'll see....

#42 Lazlo

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:23 PM

Come on my little babies! :eusa_pray Almost there...

#43 Guest_pcsillypj_*

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 02:31 PM

:D

#44 altered_states

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 09:04 PM

Keeping my fingers crossed...
I love simplicity.

Good shit, Lazlo!

Peace,
AS

#45 Lazlo

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 11:43 AM

Well, sadly bacteria has set in on all 3 of the jars. One might finish up in another year or so, but the others will take 2 prolly. lol! The Redboy has started, but it may get infected as well because it was done like the others...

OK. One more try, but with the temps @ 325 for 90 minutes. Hopefully this temperature will not burn the filter material.....

#46 reverend trips

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 11:58 AM

Hey Laz, just for fun, why don't you stick a meat thermometer through the hole in one of your contamed jars and bake with this next batch so you can see what the temperature actually does get up to in the centre?
I got my fingers crossed for ya :)

#47 Lazlo

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 12:14 PM

You know, I actually tried that and the damn thermometer doesn't work anymore. So, I figured that an extra 75 degrees should get the core of the seed to 250 hopefully.

Or, I guess I could get off my tight ass and go buy a $8 thermometer huh?....

#48 Guest_freakachino_*

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 12:07 AM

Great Experimenting Lazlo, I love it!

Something that may help, may not, just a thought I have from countless baking sessions with my mom and grandma. When I want to keep my food moist while baking I like to cover with foil. So you use foil inside the lid, outside covering may help also, and prevent burning of the polyfil. Also, when I want to keep my cupcakes or muffins moist when baking, I add a small mug or bowl of water in the oven to add some steam in their with them. Not enough to ruin the baking process, but small amount to add a bit of moisture to the actual baking environment so my food turns out moist and soft. So maybe adding a bit of open water while sterilizing the jars will help some, but maybe not. I've been doing popcorn and wbs jars in the oven, mostly pints, as The Chosen One does. He told me his method when my pc crapped out.

Its great to read about experiments of trying different processes to this hobby! I'm hoping for your success!

#49 Lazlo

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:46 AM

Well, the filter material survived the oven run with no problems. I immediately sterilized a needle and ripped the foil right after the oven run. This should help it breath correctly during the cool down process. The jar with the dry mycelium had some Trichoderma appearing on top of the seed in the jar. It was either from my inoculation or from spores being sucked in through the ring and lid during the cool down process. This will eliminate the chance of it happening during the cooling process for sure...

#50 Lazlo

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:26 PM

Anyone that thinks your culture won't loose it's vigour after being in the fridge for a year or so had better think again. lol! These took 6 days to show signs of life from a liquid culture inoculation, in which is outragous. Well, if these colonize correctly you'd better bet that it works. lol! It could take an eternity for this culture to get going. It's starting to show signs of rhizos finally. I'll give them a shake in a couple of days....

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#51 Guest_pcsillypj_*

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:46 PM

i wonder if it will work this time..?

#52 Lazlo

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:02 PM

Yeah, it'll work. lol! I hope the 3rd times a charm with this project too. Well, we're @ day 9 so far. Let's hope this works out well...:eusa_pray

#53 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:15 PM

I really enjoy your threads, Lazlo. I respect the hell out of people who are willing to report on less than successfull processes. People with too much ego to admit failures just doom those following to repeat those same failures.

Progress is just as much about finding out what DOESN'T work as finding out what DOES. Precision is only achieved by systematically eliminating the imprecise.

Have you considered the addition of any chemical disinfectants? There are a number of folks having some real good results with the bleach/lime combination on straw. A strong bleach solution will kill just about anything and heat + lime pretty much neutralizes the bleach, plus giving your mycelium a nice high pH to grow in. Just a thought.

I'm shooting all my positive vibes your way, man! There is a "perfect" TEK out there...work like yours gets us a little closer each day!

#54 Lazlo

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:32 PM

My thoughts exactly man. Heck, i'm no pro by any means. So, ego is something I don't have. Even if I were a pro, I still wouldn't have one. Besides, my confidence level is high these days. I've been taking my Enzyte everyday...

#55 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:57 PM

You do realize if the core of the jar gets to 250F, the grains will be drier than they were when you took them out of the bag? The only way an oven can get the grains above 212F is to evaporate 100% of the moisture from them first, then the temperature can rise. They will also be cooked. You'll have to rehydrate them somehow, but toasted cereal grains get soggy when wet. I think you're fighting loosing battle my friend.
RR

#56 mushit

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:01 PM

I'm afraid Rodjer is right. The laws of physics come into play here. The only way to keep water as a liquid above 212F is to apply pressure.

#57 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:16 PM

But there are SO many ways to sterilize things without using either heat or pressure. There are many cold chemical/radiation processes that are faster and more effective than any PC. 6 hours at 15psi isn't as effective as 3 minutes of gamma radiation, 15 minutes of exposure to ethylene oxide or 1 hour of exposure to ortho-phthalaldehyde.

If I may be so bold as to speak for Lazlo, he is seeking a pasteurization TEK that would avoid steam/pressure. He is looking for a trustworthy method that peeps out there could use without having to drop change on a PC.

Lazlo, I don't want to jack your thread, but I feel motivated to rant just a little here.

I applaud your efforts for a number of reasons.

Firstly, everybody who feels the pull of the shroom should have the opportunity to find out what that pull means to them. Affording/locating a pressure cooker shouldn't be a limiting factor.

Secondly, home psilly production keeps people away from potentially dangerous botanicals like the Daturas and home brew Aya. It also keeps them from buying mystery chems on the grey market.

Thirdly, and possibly most importantly, "dedicated amateurs" working in home labs are responsible for some of the most revolutionary breakthroughs ever made in science.

Lest we forget that The Master himself did some of his most fundamental work as a complete amateur, employed by as a clerk in a patent office.

The thought of Einstein constructing manifolds and corresponding with Niels Bohr while processing patent applications - sneaking a moment here and there, when the boss wasn't looking - makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Reminds me of a freak in a grocery store looking at a bottle of vanilla extract and wondering...why not?

You are a part of a proud tradition, Lazlo. 10,000 complete failures are, IMHO, worth just one stellar success. What if Albert Hoffman had given up at LSD-24? What if PF hadn't finally picked up that bag of vermiculite?

I mean, seriously, what have we got besides time and monkey minds that like trying different sized pieces in the "wrong" holes?

Buckaroo steps down from his soapbox and apologizes for being so boisterous. He didn’t mean to come across so mouthy, but once his hackles are up, he can be a bit of an ass.

#58 reverend trips

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:25 PM

But there are SO many ways to sterilize things without using either heat or pressure. There are many cold chemical/radiation processes that are faster and more effective than any PC. 6 hours at 15psi isn't as effective as 3 minutes of gamma radiation, 15 minutes of exposure to ethylene oxide or 1 hour of exposure to ortho-phthalaldehyde.

If I may be so bold as to speak for Lazlo, he is seeking a pasteurization TEK that would avoid steam/pressure. He is looking for a trustworthy method that peeps out there could use without having to drop change on a PC.

Lazlo, I don't want to jack your thread, but I feel motivated to rant just a little here.

I applaud your efforts for a number of reasons.

Firstly, everybody who feels the pull of the shroom should have the opportunity to find out what that pull means to them. Affording/locating a pressure cooker shouldn't be a limiting factor.

Secondly, home psilly production keeps people away from potentially dangerous botanicals like the Daturas and home brew Aya. It also keeps them from buying mystery chems on the grey market.

Thirdly, and possibly most importantly, "dedicated amateurs" working in home labs are responsible for some of the most revolutionary breakthroughs ever made in science.

Lest we forget that The Master himself did some of his most fundamental work as a complete amateur, employed by as a clerk in a patent office.

The thought of Einstein constructing manifolds and corresponding with Niels Bohr while processing patent applications - sneaking a moment here and there, when the boss wasn't looking - makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Reminds me of a freak in a grocery store looking at a bottle of vanilla extract and wondering...why not?

You are a part of a proud tradition, Lazlo. 10,000 complete failures are, IMHO, worth just one stellar success. What if Albert Hoffman had given up at LSD-24? What if PF hadn't finally picked up that bag of vermiculite?

I mean, seriously, what have we got besides time and monkey minds that like trying different sized pieces in the "wrong" holes?

Buckaroo steps down from his soapbox and apologizes for being so boisterous. He didn’t mean to come across so mouthy, but once his hackles are up, he can be a bit of an ass.

I swear, pomp and circumstance was blazing in my head halfway through that post, and just kept getting louder :)

#59 {Mr}fLoYd

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 12:13 AM

Not that the people on this site have a problem reporting their feelings or motivations and expanding the limits of what works but its always nice to have a bit of encouragment and remind each other that experimentation and trial and error is part of building the better mouse trap and that the reasons of conformity and normality are not always the answer (:eusa_clap Buck) . .... best of luck and continue on with your mouse trap. :)

#60 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 07:55 AM

Experimentation is how we learn. However, if one is trying to make a square tire roll, lavish encouragement might not be called for. The laws of physics show that water can not exist in a liquid state at a temperature above 100C without being subjected to pressure. If anyone can show otherwise, I'm all ears. Helping someone with their experiments by using my engineering background and experience is not shooting them down, but rather an attempt to steer onto a path that might have a chance of success. I have seen this same thread develop over the years several times, each time ending with the same results. To fail to pass along that knowledge would be wrong. We can learn from each other and build on each other's work. If one wishes to sterilize in the oven, a jar or other vessel that can hold pressure will be required. A mason jar is designed to hold vacume, not pressure.
RR




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