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Washington Panaeoloideae, sus. Section Guttulati


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#1 Guest_cleanjar_*

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 11:10 PM

Panaeolus guttulatus sp.


Type Collection

Reference: Gerhardt (1996)
Subfamily: Panaeoloideae
Genera: Panaeolus
Subgenus: Guttulati Ew.Gerhardt, sect. nov.
Species: sus. Panaeolus guttulatus Bres. var. + Identification pending

Date: 11.16.08 (A)
Location: Washington, Vashon Island. Paradise Ridge, near horse training area, seating and announcer box
Habitat: Small ditch, next to wood fence
Substrate: Grass..

Spore prints: n/a
Field notes: Growing about 3' from bluing specimens of sus. Psilocybe silvatica; Amanita muscaria was also nearby


Field image:
gutt1.JPG



Collection:
gutt2.JPG



Collection, sectioned:
gutt3.JPG



Macro notes: The length of two stipes is longer then what Gerhardt registered. I did not note any certain blue/green colorations during or after this collection. Flavor was not noted while specimens were fresh, or dry.


Spore images: Light-microscopy; microns are to scale
gutt4.JPG
gutt5.JPG



Microscopy notes:
Microscopy performed and imaged on 1.2.2009, only one short session thus far.
Our spore results: From 20 spores measured in KOH solution; (10)10.5-13(14.5) X 6-8(10) µm; and that is different then Gerhardt's data for guttulatus. Double-oil drops (=guttulate) prevelent, egg-shaped spores (=atus).
Clamps: One observed.
Gill edge (surface) light-microscopy): Possible yellowish coloration at gill edge.


Other notes:
This info was first shared online in private. The collection is awaiting further examination, and is retained at a private herbarium in Florida.

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:14 PM.


#2 mjshroomer

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 07:25 AM

HI, Not sure of the Panaeolus since even the UW has a hard time determining the various species int heherbarium at Johnson Hall.

However, it is really doubtful that you would find a P. silvativa in a field or lawn.

It is a cold weather species which is found in decayed wood debris, preferably alder in clearcuts and rare in the cities. Found in Kingston, Washington to Port Angeles and farther north towards BC and to the west in Idaho, again, preferably appearing in and amongst P. pelliculosa.


Nice scope images.

mjshroomer.

#3 Guest_cleanjar_*

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 02:38 PM

Thanks again mj. The microscopy session was only preliminary. The material was collected very early in the morning. I have not spent much time learning to identify many species that occur in the Pacific northwest. At the time I felt too rushed and tired to make sturdier ID's, so I just documented my own type collections, with plans to identify them another day.



Psilocybe silvatica was a error in my typing. What do you think of these ones? These I thought might be P. strictipes. They grew a few feet away from the sus. Pan. guttulatus. The flavor of these suggested a very high chemical content,

WAND11160802A.JPG

WAND11160802B.JPG

WAND11160802C.JPG

WAND11160802D.JPG


11.16.08 (B)

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:20 PM.


#4 Workman

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 11:24 PM

Your specimen is not a Panaeolus and appears to be a Psilocybe, specifically Psilocybe semilanceata. This is also likely the same species as the suspected P. strictipes which were growing nearby despited the seemingly different appearance.

Psilocybe semilanceata is very variable in appearance and doesn't always have the classical liberty cap shape and occasionally are nearly plane. The stems of your collection are classic semilanceata and are very non-panaeolus like. The microscopy of the spores is also consistant in color, shape and size for Psilocybe semilanceata. The time of year (November) and the grassy habitat near a horse stable are also in agreement. I've personally found many liberty caps near a horse stable in a grassy drainage ditch.

#5 mjshroomer

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 01:42 PM

Your specimen is not a Panaeolus and appears to be a Psilocybe, specifically Psilocybe semilanceata. This is also likely the same species as the suspected P. strictipes which were growing nearby despited the seemingly different appearance.
Psilocybe semilanceata is very variable in appearance and doesn't always have the classical liberty cap shape and occasionally are nearly plane. The stems of your collection are classic semilanceata and are very non-panaeolus like. The microscopy of the spores is also consistant in color, shape and size for Psilocybe semilanceata. The time of year (November) and the grassy habitat near a horse stable are also in agreement. I've personally found many liberty caps near a horse stable in a grassy drainage ditch.



By the way Cleanjar, you can actually see dozens of variations in the shapes of the caps in the assorted images I have posted below for you to look at and remember that all Psilocybe species have many of the same ones in these lib caps in other species of Psilocybe. Just like the Cubes can be cultivated and sometimes get very wavy big magnificent caps like P. cyanescens does.


Yes they all are P. semilanceata and I too have collected them in horse and cattle pasturelands at the Bartels Meat Packing Plant Across from the Fern Ridge Reservoir on West 11th outside of Eugene heading towards Elmira/Veneta, Oregon. Right at the fern River Reservoir street crossing the first field across from Bartels has a nice herd of horses, about20-30 or so. The libs are known to spread along the roadways and on the sides of the railroad tracks on Bartels property right up to the mud pits when the water levels are down and people wear the waist high boots and collect arrowheads on the right side of the swampy reservoir, and if you cross the highway on 11th and over the railroad tracks into wooded are you come out in some pastures and north of those are the fences which separate the rest of the swamp areas from the Plant.

Use to pick the same in Marymore Park in Redmond and in the lawns in the Seattle Arboretum at woodland Park lawn.

And Clean jar, there are dozens of variations in the shapes of the caps of P. semilanceata. They can even be completely conical as a Conocybe, but have a different shape, a nipple and a protrude as does one of yours in this image.

Your specimen is not a Panaeolus and appears to be a Psilocybe, specifically Psilocybe semilanceata. This is also likely the same species as the suspected P. strictipes which were growing nearby despite the seemingly different appearance.
Psilocybe semilanceata is very variable in appearance and doesn't always have the classical liberty cap shape and occasionally are nearly plane. The stems of your collection are classic semilanceata and are very non-panaeolus like. The microscopy of the spores is also consistent in color, shape and size for Psilocybe semilanceata. The time of year (November) and the grassy habitat near a horse stable are also in agreement. I've personally found many liberty caps near a horse stable in a grassy drainage ditch.



Yes, as Workman said they are variable. However, I posted tan image with two libs with bell/conical Panaeolus shaped caps to show how that is common in certain collections and yours all are P. semilanceata and I too have collected them in horse and cattle pasturelands at the Bartels Meat Packing Plant across from the Fern Ridge Reservoir on West 11th outside of Eugene heading towards Elmira. Veneta, Oregon. Right at the fern River Reservoir street crossing the first field across from Bartels has a nice herd of horses, about 30-40 or so. The libs are known to spread along the roadways and can also be picked on both sides of a road way, country road which has pastures on both sides of the highway, and on the sides of the railroad tracks on Bartels property right up to the mud pits hen the water levels are down and people wear the waist high boots and collect arrowheads on the right side of the swampy reservoir, and if you cross the highway on 11th and over the railroad tracks into wooded are you come out in some pastures and north of those are the fences which separate the rest of the swamp areas from the Plant.

Use to pick the same in Marymore Park in Redmond and in the lawns in the Seattle Arboretum at woodland Park lawn.

And Clean jar, there are dozens of variations in the shapes of the caps of P. semilanceata. They can even be completely conical as a Conocybe, but have a different shape, a nipple and a protrude as does one of your in this image

Well it seems that you have some kind of security on your images as they will not copy to my desk top. I wanted to point out the features I was going to discuss but your images won’t copy.

However, some pf yours or most have an acute incurved margin at the base of the cap to the stem. You cannot see any striate margin that is a characteristic common with fresh moist lib caps where you can see the lines of the gill plates showing through to the outside of the caps as they change color (hygrophanous reaction) in your image. And many of those in the images I am posting have permanent incurved margins that will never open any further and others open up like an upturned lampshade. Some have a distinct pin cap shaped nipple, others have a small round flat cap; some have protrudes and nipples while others have long skirts of their stems and then you see some with no nipples and cone shaped. The brownish-tan ones have a striate margin and you can see the lines on the caps, and then many in a few photos have become hygrophanous, meaning they are changing color as they dry in the hot sun or even from a cold front. The stems are pithy and will curve around your fingers.

Here are some examples of various shapes of P. semilanceata, and while many stems tend to grow to 4-6 inches at times, in fields where sheep graze, the caps never get taller then the grassy area they are growing in. This is similar in patches of blue ringers (P. stuntzii, P fimetaria and P. sierrae).

And P. strictipes tends to have more of a cone-shaped and even conic shaped cap.

And usually in fields of libs, they can allso have many which are sterile and have white gills with no spores.

I had to retype all of this because my time at Mycotopia expired and when it does I have to re log-in and I have to turn off the explorer and re log n to get this posted so I did it on word and now will post my response with no notes to the images as my eyes are burning. Was up most of the night still coming down off of the steroids the doc gave me to open up my lungs, mjshroomer.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241546961

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241547067

Mushroomer

Liberty caps were the first magic mushrooms I picked. I found 24 medium ones the first day. ate them that night and felt i should have eaten may two times instead of what I atel

So I picked over 400 the 2nd day. That night I told my wife maybe forty wuold be a good dose for use each. She said no lets do sixty. So I said cool, but when she wasn't looking I put about ten of mine back.

Wehad a Wasson/Hofmann ceremonial Mazatec venture and voyage into another demension. They are my favorate but I have not eaten any since Vancouver BC of 2003.

OF course P. samuiensis and P. antioquensis are close to P. semilanceata, Sams grow in both Angkor Wat and P. antioquesnis as well and Sams grow all over Thailand now. A new collection and lab work form Ranong Province facing India on the Andaman Sea area is alsop crawing with them.

I want you to also note Cleanjar that some libeety cap caps have a flat round pencil sized cap which is flaat and some have a bump kind of cap on them., then long caps spreading outwards and more long and thin with bulges like the caps have a pregnant look to them.

I want to post a few more below because of their unusual shape diferences.

One kinda looks like a breast with a nipple waiting for some flying or crawling insect to come suck on it:

The Breast of liberty cap, yum yum:

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241548597

Long Fellows from a pasture:

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241548597

One of my beautiful SEM photographs of Psilocybe semilanceata at 15 KV X 3,500.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241548597

Shroom Sprinklers

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241548597

mjshroomer

Attached Thumbnails

  • lib16.jpg
  • shroomsprinkler1.jpg
  • lib15.jpg
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  • lib13.jpg
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  • lib1.jpg
  • lib2.jpg
  • lib3.jpg


#6 Alan Rockefeller

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 02:28 PM

Well it seems that you have some kind of security on your images as they will not copy to my desk top.


Its not possible to put security on images here on Mycotopia, you must be doing something wrong.

I agree that there is no Panaeolus in this thread.

#7 Guest_cleanjar_*

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 03:30 PM

Thanks for the shroom image pictoral mj. The last photo is a bit off setting, yet atom heart motherish. On the upside, the ones with the greenish/blue staining on the caps had a heavenly flavor, or a cool-green energy I remember thinking.

Here is another collection for topia, collected the same day as above. I was feeling quite rushed for learning to identifying this one with certainty:


Collection Type

Species: Psilocybe pelliculosa (A.H. Sm.) Singer & A.H.
Date: 11.16.08
Location: Vashon Island, Washington: undisclosed, next to a chiropractors office
Substrate: Conifer mulch..
Spore print color: Purplish

References for Identification: PMOTW by Stamets, and mj's magic mushroom book.

Private Herbarium ID: 11.16.08.C


Nature material:
PS1a.JPG



Specimens collected:
PS1b.JPG



Illustration:
PS1c2.JPG



Microscopy note: I recall doing a quick microscopy session measuring the spores from this collection - the data was not recorded.


Additional image: The ferry boat approaching vashon island before dawn, *Admin Edit Image missing*

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:25 PM.


#8 mjshroomer

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 07:54 PM

Well cleanjar, what I think you hane there are some specimens of the genus Naematoloma or possibly Psathyrella, both which grow in and amongst Psilocybe pelliculosa and Psilocybe silvativa in alder mulch...

To give you an idea of these I will show you three images of Naematoloma species.

Observe the filiments on the stems of your suspected P. pelliculosa and those on the Namaetoloma species in my first image below

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

naematoloma2.jpg


http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824


And here is an image of Psathyrella, also common in clearcuts, alder mulches consisting of branches, stems and twigs, in gardens and garden bed boxes:

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241572998

Also very similar in appearance to P. pelliculosa. againg Cleanjar, nice work but this is one of the few species which is very common and abundant also in man made environments and not so in natural until the land has been disturbed.

IF you go into the woods ten feet or more from where those massive pelliculosas are, then they disappear. the same with cyans,

In pastures lib caps are common but blue ringers, all the varietiesof them are rare, but inman made environments, blue ringers and baeos can be abundant but liberty caps are rare. are rare

And now I want to show you a clearcut off of Old Kingston Road in Kingston, Washington, a half an hour ferry boat ride from Edmonds to Kingston. Edmonds is a 25 minute car ride from Downtown Seattle heading northeast. Kingston can go north to Paulsboro to Bremerton Winslow Ferry service back to Seattle. Because 95% of all clear cuts are now illegal, the few open have to be visited fast because of the fact that the P. pelliculosa grow from the bulldozed mulch before the slash and burn and will extend until the sprouting cropped Alder tree growth reaches a height of from three to 9 feet and then the shrooms are gone.

Other shrooms such as galerina autumnalis, several varieties of naematoloma, carrot cups (Alluria aurantia), and other shrooms grow where the bull dozers have tread and smashed the alder into mulch and broken branches, stems and trigs.

Here I am as Santa Amanita Claus of the north. In the mid 1970s, I found 18 speciimens of P. cyanescens growing into the woods from a trail offof the dirt logging roadway used by the logging truckers and is but one of only three known reported patches of a species of P. cyanescens recovered in a natural habitat. If you look at the 2nd and 3rd habitat images, you can see the massive growths of P. pellliculosa fruiting freely in great abundance.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

Every 20 feet or so another bulldozed area would branch out and we could go pick massive shrooms with no sweat.

And now I want to show you 8 images of Psilocybe pelliculosa from this particular clear cut in Kingston.

By the way, every fall, Wayerhauser lumber company sells mushroom picking permits for $35.00 per permit, good for three months and entry into three clear cuts in the Seattle region and clearcuts which they designate as the ones you can go pick in. When you come out of these clear cuts there are dozens of vans and panel trucks, as well as pick-up trucks with people interested in buying any edible shrooms you might have collected. Some area, like with fishing and hunting have restrictions on the amount of pounds of shrooms you can legally pick.

Many logging roads leave the locks to the gates unlocked during the week at clearcuts where P. pelliculosa grow, but do not go into one on the weekend, you would not want your car locked in for three days.

Also, be on the lookput for hunters who target practice in those clear cuts. They ride in in dirt bikes and shoot off both rifles and pistols, Some carrying up to 4-5 weapons. I have seen old ice boxes which were used as target practice.

Okay.

8 P. pelliculosa images, They gerow in veins. These are not great pictures as my pelliculosa images were lost by the Post Office when I moved to Seattle from the Islands. And the 8 images of P. pelloculosa I posted are different than the images you posted of your collections from Vashon Island shrooms. Yes, Jonathan Ott once lived there and both he and I picked cyans and blue ringers but never saw any pelliculosa or silvatica. Also San juan Islands have no liberty caps on them and in 30 years, only one discovery of P;. cyanescens has been repored.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241570824

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241571041

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241571041

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241571041

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241571041

Anyway, nice photo work.

In about thirty-five years I have only seen about 6-7 small 1/2 pound to a few pound patches of P. pelliculosa in the state outside of a clearcut.

In the ealry 1980s, the clover leafs along I-5 highway where it met up with 405 near Everette/Marysbille was mulched in and had baeos and P. pelliculosa growing. Grew of r one year and did not come back.

mjshroomer

Attached Thumbnails

  • pel3.jpg
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  • pel5.jpg
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  • pel7.jpg
  • pel8.jpg
  • pel2.jpg
  • pel1.jpg
  • p.pellhabitat3.jpg
  • naematoloma3.jpg
  • p.pellhabititat1.jpg
  • p.pellhabitat2.jpg
  • naematoloma1.jpg

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:37 PM.


#9 mjshroomer

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 08:34 PM

Its not possible to put security on images here on Mycotopia, you must be doing something wrong.

I agree that there is no Panaeolus in this thread.


Alan, when I right clicked the mouse on Clean jars image, it copied and I went to my desktop and clicked pste. It pasted a scrap icon. IT did he same when I clicked on his image and tried to post it onmy desttop to fix the color. it also became a scrap icon, similar to one which would be like a clipboard and then it askes me what program do I want to use to open it with.

I hjave no probnlem with other peoples omages

#10 Alan Rockefeller

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:32 PM

Namaetoloma species in my first image below


That is Hypholoma marginatum.

Cleanjar's have a translucent-striate cap and I think they are in Psilocybe.


Alan, when I right clicked the mouse on Clean jars image, it copied and I went to my desktop and clicked pste. It pasted a scrap icon. IT did he same when I clicked on his image and tried to post it onmy desttop to fix the color. it also became a scrap icon, similar to one which would be like a clipboard and then it askes me what program do I want to use to open it with.


Instead of using copy/paste, right click on an image and choose "Save Image As..."

#11 the_chosen_one

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:46 PM

damn john, you look good on this side of the water! and quit telling peeps my secret spots! :lol:

:heart:

#12 Guest_cleanjar_*

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 06:42 PM

John the ones next the chiropractors office tasted psychoactive. The dry samples and notes are not nearby at this moment, but I remember noting a bluing reaction. I figured they are related to pelliculosa. My ID would be more accurate with a monograph for Psilocybe.


This is the type I set out to locate the same morning;


Collection ID: 11.16.08.D

In nature,
pap1.jpg


Collection,
pap2.jpg


Sectioned,
pap3.jpg


Comments,
I suspect these to be a variety of Panaeolus papilionaceus. They grew in a pastureland with black angus on Vashon Island.
Microscopy has yet to be performed for measuring other features. They will eventually be compared with papilionaceus material
collected in Florida.

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:41 PM.


#13 mjshroomer

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:51 AM

That is Hypholoma marginatum.

Cleanjar's have a translucent-striate cap and I think they are in Psilocybe.




Instead of using copy/paste, right click on an image and choose "Save Image As..."


It does the same when I use save as.

Clean jars set of images which you noted that you think they are or may be Psilocybe is corrected but they are not P. silvativa or P. pelliculosa. I have collected enough specimens of those to know that they are not the latter two species.

In fact, they could even be a non-active species.

I notice that cleanjar noted a greenlsh blue tinge, but I think that was in his post which showed the liberty cap shrooms.

Pelliculosas, only get a slight buing at the base of stems, and that is considered rare. There were a couple of P. pelliculosa in the cardboard box above with some slight bluing at the base of the stems.

Now here are a couple of images from a clear cut area of Alder in Kingston towards Hood River Bridge and they are not P. silvatica or P. pelliculosa. One has a face in the mushroom which resembles Don Quixote.

Let me see if I can find them.

I call this one Don Quixote because their is a face and goatee in the image of the larger shroom. IT came form a clear cut in Kingston. I cannot find the latter images and am not certain where the photo envelope is with the original images or negatives are.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241801218

And here is one Guzman accidentally named as Psilocybe pelliculosa var. pelliculosa. It was collected amongst P. azurescens in 1989 from the Freeway Park in Seatl Guzman identified it as such from fresh specimens I gave him in Nov of 1979. Problem of his macroscopic id is that the mushroom had orangy cinnamon colored gills. So it is not a Psilocbye. I am hoping he reexamines it for his new revised Genus Psilocybe

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1241801218

mjshroomer,

and Alan, Thanks for the correction on Naematoloma (Hypholoma) species. I have about 100 or more imags now to change the name of the folder and pics.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Don Quixote-var.Pelliculosa1.Kingston.Wa.jpg
  • Unidentified-FP-Seattle2abc.jpg

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:43 PM.


#14 Guest_cleanjar_*

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 07:08 PM

The pelliculosa type had seperable pellicles. The collection site was visited on two occassions, and I was under the impression that they are psychoactive.


Notes:
The preserved spore prints are brown colored in deposit. The notches in the micro pics are equal to 1micron.




More collection reports and ID requests from this day will be shared soon at this topic. It was a full day of shroomin around the Sound.

Edited by Freaky, 01 February 2011 - 05:45 PM.





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