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Somewhat strange looking Panaeolus Cambodgiensis mycelium - mold!?


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#1 Om shanti

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 01:32 AM

Inoculated BRF jars with a P. Cambodgiensis print about two weeks ago. One was lost to bacterial infection. The water content of the BRF may be just a bit too high.

I'm slightly worried about two things that I'd like to hear a second opinion on. 1) some yellowish stuff - perhaps myc piss (I hope) - 2) extremely patchy mycelium. Some sections are very white and extremely dense, but others are vague and greyish.

Following are photos of 5 of the jars, two pictures of each, one with flash and one without. (The photos are in order, e.g., first two photos are of the first jar, etc.)

1)
The two first jars have some yellowish looking stuff in it, mostly visible on the photos of jar 1. I'm hoping it's just a bad case of myc piss as it looks like the colouring is concentrated in excess water droplets. On jar 2 there is yellow spot right in the middle.

2)
The patchy mycelium can be seen especially on jar #3 .. I hope it's possible to recognise that while some parts are not yet colonized there are others which are colonized by a grey or thin looking myc and others by a very white and dense myc. I'm worried that the very dense myc is NOT cambodgiensis but something we don't like. Had it been cubensis I would be more worried about the greyish/thin myc, but this is how Pan mycelium normally looks, isn't it? jar #5 is a good example of how the vague and greyish myc looks. Is it normal for Pan Cambodgiensis mycelium to look like this?

Any opinions highly appreciated!
Thanks.

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#2 vinz

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:05 AM

hmm seems fine to me..
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#3 Om shanti

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:34 AM

Thanks, vinz!

#4 Foster

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

Yep, that pan myc is strange stuff.
In fact there is a thread " the strangeness of it all" i think.

I have many times thought it was cobweb cause it was a light gray wispy looking myc, then POW! I got pins.

Good luck, those are some bad mofos, you will enjoy for sure. 1.69g dry had me in fetal position on floor wishing I wasn't. lol

#5 Om shanti

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 11:36 AM

Yep, that pan myc is strange stuff.
In fact there is a thread " the strangeness of it all" i think.

I have many times thought it was cobweb cause it was a light gray wispy looking myc, then POW! I got pins.

Good luck, those are some bad mofos, you will enjoy for sure. 1.69g dry had me in fetal position on floor wishing I wasn't. lol

Haha, yearh I heard they are some times a little bit too potent. Thanks for the advice on mycelium structure, Foster! And I think I'll need the luck, but I'll do some g2g transfer this weekend so I have plenty of mycelium "in the bank" to survive a few crashes. ;-)

I couldn't find the thread you mention, but searching for it I of course found a number of other very interesting threads about Pans..!! :-)

#6 Foster

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 01:24 PM

Heh, my mistake, "wierdness" is what it was, and here it is :)

http://mycotopia.net...rdness-all.html
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#7 Om shanti

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 02:58 PM

Thanks a lot for posting the link, Foster, that's a great thread!

And it's nice to know I'm not the only one that has been perplexed by Panaeolus mycelium. :-)

#8 Om shanti

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 04:21 PM

I. Update
Everything colonized according to the grand master plan, no (visible or olfactorily noticeable) contaminations. Some of the jars with the most myc piss looked like they were stalling around the spots of the piss, but then took up where they had left.

For insurance purposes, 3 BRF jars are in my fridge (in case of crap happening), and I also did some "cake to cake" transfers to multiply spawn with home made polyfill "spawn bags", all done inside a glovebox, of course. The bags were maybe a bit on the dry side, but are more or less colonized.

I am trying my luck with compost made for growing Agaricus bisporus (buttons). Most of this, which is called "champost" here (Champignon, the French word for mushroom and local word for buttons), is actually the leftovers after mushrooms have grown in it. But I found some that is made by a button growing farm that quit producing buttons but continued making the substrate. This is supposedly the exact same mix they used to use for growing the buttons in. But it's marketed for use as garden fertilizer just like its cousin, the spent button substrate. I got a bag of 50 litres for about the equivalent of 12 US$. It's been pasteurized at 70 degree C for 10 hours. I can't say what the exact proportions of poo/straw is, but there is pretty much straw I'd say, maybe 70%. And it contains some unspecified amount of chicken shit too. pH is supposed to be 7,7. Smell is not bad, but after pressure cooking (which I did though it may not have been necessary when it was already pasteurized) it did smell a bit shitty in the kitchen.
I reckon that with all 50 litres I should manage to get at least a handful of Pans and perhaps a print if this mix is at all good. But there are some regular unpasteurized horseshit not far away, but I hope this button mix will do it. It’s a lot less shitty than fresh shit to work with, I think (though I have never used shit before).
Now I have a few different containers going, but my incubator is a bit too small to hold all of them so some are in a cold attic. I used a variety of spawn-sub ratios, some 60:40 spawn-sub, some more like 20-30:70-80, and with varying thickness, from 1,5-4cm. I’ll work on getting them some proper heating next week where I also have to work a bit at setting up the fruiting chamber. My present sucks but I got an extra fish tank heater and a small air pump which I will try to put in a new tub.
II. Questions questions questions
Here are two trays that I kept in the incubation chamber for a few days. Casing (peat/verm) was applied at the same time as the compost was spawned. The myc in the first one looks ok, I think, at least its white. But no. 2 I almost threw out 30 minutes ago, but then thought I’d ask here first, to hear if it’s just another instance of weird looking pan myc. The myc that appeared on top looks grayish, and my first thought was cobweb or something. When I carried it to throw it out I thought I would just look at the sub underneath but that all looks flashing white…. That’s when I had second thoughts about throwing it out.

So, what do you say, should I toss no. 2!???

BTW, the reason no. 2 is slower than no. 1 is probably it had a less favorable position in a poorly heated incubation chamber.

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#9 Om shanti

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 09:04 AM

Just trying a little BUMP to maybe hear an opinion on tray #2 above (no need to read the entire loooong post, just the last 8-10 lines under heading Questions. :-)

I have kept it so far, no noticeable change in the myc.

#10 spacecake

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:52 PM

It's hard to tell from that picture...

You know Trich is white before it turns green.
So..was this green spot white before it turned green ?

#11 Om shanti

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 02:08 PM

There is no green (yet), only grey. I'm just worried about the grey looking mycelium coming up on tray #2.

Some fresh photos. First picture is tray #2 w/flash, next w/o flash, third picture is tray #1 with flash. I guess the grey looking mycelium is mostly visible on the second picture, middle of the tray at the bottom.

Maybe I'm just starting to imagine things - that's why a second opinion would be much appreciated - if it's at all possible to see anything from the photos. :-)

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#12 M&M420

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 03:13 PM

:cool:.All looks good to me but then again I know nothing of exotics.Keep us updated

#13 Om shanti

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 03:15 PM

:cool:.All looks good to me but then again I know nothing of exotics.Keep us updated

hehe, neither do I. ;-) Thanks, I hope you're right!

#14 Om shanti

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:00 PM

I tossed out the grey looking tray, as it made me too nervous.:horse:

Some photos

1) of what the dry Agaricus compost looks like

2) one of last two 'polyfillfilterbags' with approximately 3 cakes worth of BRF in each. I will mix this tomorrow with a mix of 30:70 coir:compost I am just sterilizing. Won't start any more substrate now, unless I lose half to contams.

3) A cardboard box with an approx. 55:35:10 BRF:Compost:vermiculite substrate and a very thin peat/verm casing (0,5cm perhaps).

Thanks for your attention. Next update will come when I have some pins, or more likely, when I'm once again fearing that apocalypse is near. :-)

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#15 spacecake

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:41 PM

I will be here...
Wanna see some pins !

#16 Om shanti

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:37 PM

hehe, Pins are slightly delayed due to a fatal design failure with a new FC. But a more primitive but working version will be running from tomorrow. Hopefully pins will come then.

I have one question: LC for pans?? Is there a good recipe? Two times I have tried a 2% dextrose / 2% light malt extract solution, and spores didn't grow the least.
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#17 Shadowlord

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:53 PM

Hope you get some good fruits out of that Om!
I have some various Woodloving strains that I would love starting. ( Agar culture plates )
What and where do you get this Agaricus compost you speak of?
What else, if anything do you have to add to it and do you pasteurize it?
If I could do some semi reliable cultivation of these strains I have indoors or in a bag outside, I would be set!
As it is the plates sit in a ziplock in my fridge as I don't want to mess w/ them b/4 I know what I'm doing.
Sorry to get off Topic Om! Good growing vibes to all your projects.

#18 Shadowlord

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:55 PM

That's some very nice and healthy looking mycelium growing in that bag! I bet you'll get some nice fruits from there!

#19 Om shanti

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 03:42 PM

Hope you get some good fruits out of that Om!
I have some various Woodloving strains that I would love starting. ( Agar culture plates )
What and where do you get this Agaricus compost you speak of?
What else, if anything do you have to add to it and do you pasteurize it?
If I could do some semi reliable cultivation of these strains I have indoors or in a bag outside, I would be set!
As it is the plates sit in a ziplock in my fridge as I don't want to mess w/ them b/4 I know what I'm doing.
Sorry to get off Topic Om! Good growing vibes to all your projects.

Thanks! ;-)
I'm in Scandinavia.. so I'm afraid my source is probably a bit too far away from you in terms of shipping cost. This compost doesn't contain any wood, only straw (maybe that looks like woodchips?) and horse poo and some chicken poo. So I don't think it would suit a woodlover. But I really don't know about woodlovers, if they might enjoy a bit of poo as well - don't we all? ;-) But I will try this compost on cubensis some time this summer I think.

I just tried searching google for "mushroom compost U.S." and it looks like spent mushroom substrate is marketed for garden fertilizer in the U.S. the same way as in Europe. Maybe a bit of research will show that some of this compost has also not actually been used for mushroom growing before.. like this particular brand I found here!?

If it isn't, I've heard some people have grown mushrooms in the normally available, spent substrate, and I saw some local brands here claim that only one flush of mushrooms is grown in it before it's repasteurized and sold as garden fertilizer. So that could be a possibility.. If you could find some where only one flush had been grown in it, I would presume it should still be viable. But I'm sure some of the experienced growers here will know more about this.

And actually I also don't know how good the compost I got will work. The mycelium does seem to eat away at it, but feasting is one thing, and fruiting another, I guess. I have tried only 3 small variations so far. Straight compost, compost with vermiculite, and compost with coir. So far it looks like it's the compost with vermiculite that colonized the fastest.
It's supposedly already pasteurized for 7 hours, so it should ideally be good straight out of the bag. But I don't really trust it's clean, and have sterilized everything in the pc for 1,5 hours. I realize many will say that's stupid, and that I should at least have pasteurized it instead. But I don't have any pasteurization experience and likes using my pc. So I'm just keeping my fingers crossed, and if it all contams I will attempt to pasteurize the next batch instead.

Edited by Om shanti, 22 May 2009 - 03:49 PM.
spelling + nonsense


#20 Om shanti

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 03:48 PM

Just saw this - http://green-change....shroom-compost/ - maybe there's a local mushroom farm that would part with some ready to go unused compost if it's not available in retail.




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