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Somewhat strange looking Panaeolus Cambodgiensis mycelium - mold!?


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#61 nyi

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:55 PM

Try to get some thermostat and change the aquarium heater to heating cable for reptile terrariums. It mush more effective. The aquarium type needs the water to be in constant and fast flow, or the heat exchange isn't very good... the thermostat probe heats up more quickly then the water and you loose degrees.

Place the cable in an empty jar filled about 2/3 with salt water (try to get it at least 10% salt as a bactericide, iodized is good, maybe a little bit better). Air pump w/ stone in the water in the terrarium will help humidification, but salt reduces evaporation (it's hygroscopic, absorbs water and raises its boiling point).

I have this approach in my incubator (w/o air pump, no FAE required, incubator leaks do the job breat). And I plan this approach for my terrarium too, but with the salt reduces, I'll better use some fungicide and bactericide sprayed on the walls and an small fan to induce internal air flow, prevent cobweb, stimulate evaporation, even temps differences etc.

If you have an old house, which can be contaminated, do what I did: Fix any broken, cut walls in the house with plaster (if I'm not clear, what plaster is, than it works like this: CaSO4 * 1/2 H2O + water = gypsum... hopefully you can find out, what I mean), or at least in the room, where you have you culture and tray... just get the wall fixed and paint it a new... use 2 layers of new paint. You can spray the wall a little bit with something what prevents molds, but isn't dangerous to humans, when they're exposed to it.

This cut black mold to near zero in my house... cobweb seams injured a little bit too, but on trich it had little effect... it looks like it don't grow in the wall cuts, but more on organic compounds. I do throw out trash more often (every day, which is about 3 times more then before) and this works well so far againts trich. Cleaning dishes is the same as the trash... nothing can stay dirty for more then 12 hours! Floor is a must to be cleaned at least 1-2 times a week.

It looks like much work, but that work will give you not only the cultivating benefits, but a better life style and happy smile, when you know everything is still great and of course, it's a good training of discipline for you. I believe, the shrooms sense who grows them and what a human he is. And I believe they make decisions, what small differences will they do for him from the point, when you get a print into your hands. The trip begins from our child hood and the way by which you parents teached (I know, this isn't correct spelling, but you know what I mean) us to live.

PS: Sorry for that lengthy post, I'm peaking with expressiveness after a good long afternoon sleep and whole-night net-sitting a friend first time under Zolpidem and doing my job overtime. I love to work and talk much especially when I'm getting to my limits.

#62 Om shanti

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:40 AM

PS: Sorry for that lengthy post, I'm peaking with expressiveness after a good long afternoon sleep and whole-night net-sitting a friend first time under Zolpidem and doing my job overtime. I love to work and talk much especially when I'm getting to my limits.

I'm happy for all suggestions! :-) I can't even read or write if I get a good dose. I focus on one letter at a time and it just seems to explode or run away from me. :-)

It looks like much work, but that work will give you not only the cultivating benefits, but a better life style and happy smile, when you know everything is still great and of course, it's a good training of discipline for you. I believe, the shrooms sense who grows them and what a human he is. And I believe they make decisions, what small differences will they do for him from the point, when you get a print into your hands. The trip begins from our child hood and the way by which you parents teached (I know, this isn't correct spelling, but you know what I mean) us to live.

I live in a rented apartment, and the attic is basically a set of small storage rooms for all occupants. It's directly below the roof tiles and the rooms are not even completely closed off - there's a small open section at the top of the walls. People only use it for storing whatever old shit they can't get themselves to throw out or are too lazy to carry down to the trash container. So I'm afraid that making those improvements are more or less impossible. It would attract too much attention if I started to fix up my own room. If it was my own house I'd definitely have used the space better and cleaned it up.

I have this approach in my incubator (w/o air pump, no FAE required, incubator leaks do the job breat). And I plan this approach for my terrarium too, but with the salt reduces, I'll better use some fungicide and bactericide sprayed on the walls and an small fan to induce internal air flow, prevent cobweb, stimulate evaporation, even temps differences etc.

If I was going to start from scratch I would probably have made some different investment choices than those I'm stuck with now. And a cable is definitely smarter and takes up less space as well. But my present tub-in-a-tub aquarium heater setup can easily heat to 33 degrees just at the bottom of the fc, so I think the problem to be fixed is mainly just getting some better insulation on the top part like we discussed before.

And while perhaps the sizes of the mushrooms can be blamed on climate, the uneven pinset certainly can't be completely attributed to Mother Nature. I can see that Spacecake is right in his focus on casing and not least on getting things right in the first flush, this seems to be the key. From observing the second flush pictures above, and the second flush of tray A from before shown below (the one with pinning in the corners) it seems pins are appearing in almost exactly the same spots as before.

For instance further reducing some of the too thick casing I had put on tray A seems to have had little effect on pinning. Pins are still appearing where they did in the first flush.

The tray with overlay (tray D) that failed before did do better, but funny enough still ended up with the same very large number of aborts.

Again, these observations need to be qualified because of the low temperatures. But I'm wondering if this persistent clustering pattern is common with pans.. I haven't observed it with cubes, they seem to pop up more randomly. Pans definitely do like to appear in clusters. And of course, let's see if these patterns continue to hold.

As for the one I scraped I probably overdid the scraping, and also I have a feeling (though no rational argument) that I should have used a bit of peat/verm casing not pure verm. So scraping and recasing might well be a possibility, as well as Eatyualive's simple thin patch/top-recasing.. heh, too many different approaches to try. :-)

Attached Thumbnails

  • tray A.JPG


#63 nyi

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:23 AM

Hehe... to the limits... I was speaking that I'm getting to my physical and mental limits and sober... I just burst with energy right before I fall down to bed half-dead-half-sleeping. don't take me too seriously :)

Rented apartment... hmm... bad. If the mistakes, which lead to contamination, are done at the incubation stage, then I'd get myself some tyvek, silicone pistol and maybe some parafilm... these really help. Everything other is on the random things, which work only in one particular room and in the other they don't.

I see, that disturbing Pans. mycelium in any way is very bad decision. Very bad... they'll regenerate... but will be pissed on the disturber/cultivator... as Workman said: "Luck favours the observer."

I didn't had any cluster, just cubie-like random pinset.

#64 Om shanti

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:36 AM

I've dismantled the FC to turn it into a full time incubator to test some of my sporeprints. So what remains of this grow for the time being is now an experiment in relatively cold weather neglected pans. Results are not exactly impressive, but I'm surprised they even grow at these temperatures.

I dunked tray D (the one that was a complete failure in 1st flush) after it's second flush. I didn't have any plan for it so I just put foil around it and let it wait in a room with average temperature around 17-21C/62-70F. When I checked on it mushrooms were appearing though it had received no light or fanning or anything (picture 1). Still lots of aborts on this.

It was put into the 'cardboard monotub' at this point, and has been growing fruits at these temperatures for a few days now. Tray C (where casing was violently scraped off and a light verm recasing) is there too, with a few more fruits, but still not recovered, but also wasn't dunked after second 'flush' (which was only a handfull of shrooms). I didn't fan or mist this box. (picture 2).

Last picture is first flush of tray H, which started fruiting in my attic room, but then was moved into a heated tub, temperature around 20-23C/68-73.5F, where humidity was quite high (lots of condensation on lid). I almost didn't fan this, and there was no polyfill stuffed holes on this tub. I presume that's why some of the fruits started to rot before even properly maturing. (picture 3) I dismantled this tub now too.

Tray B was tossed out, it's surface looked (and smelled!) like charcoal from all the spores dropped. Tray A will receive some fresh compost on top to see if that can help it to not only fruit in the corners.

Rented apartment... hmm... bad. If the mistakes, which lead to contamination, are done at the incubation stage, then I'd get myself some tyvek , silicone pistol and maybe some parafilm... these really help. Everything other is on the random things, which work only in one particular room and in the other they don't.

Nyi, the attic is only used for some of the colonized trays... not for any work requiring real sterility, which would definitely be doomed! By the way, your prediction that the overlayed/failed tray D from first flush would make its come back have come through, as you see! :-)

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#65 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:09 AM

great work!
and just so you know, and the other person looking for info on this stuff knows--
mushroom compost, is just that, like it says on your bag there "spent mushroom compost"
its already used up--the good thing is it is not too 'hot' and ready for use, but severely drained of its nutrients making it like worm castings.
perfect for gardens and green plants, great for building a healthy microherd/beneficial micro-organisms,
but lacks the punch real compost has. im way surprised with your results and glad you got such great results!
much respect :bow: i think if you had the right stuff you wouldnt have had those grey trays in the beginning!
if you cant find any already composted, horse poop, left out in the sun till its dry (long as u can possibly wait, the longer the better) then composted/pasteurized is some amazing stuff
and if you cant find poo or compost a friend uses straight straw for his pans with outstanding results
they don't prefer a deep sub like cubensis does,
in fact that same friend uses his straw in those shallow baking trays made of aluminum.
maybe 1.5" deep packed straw substrate, and your straw success looks excelent as well!
good thinking with the bags but try no polyfil next time tey wont dry out so fast!
thanks for sharing with us. keep up the great grow work! :cool:

#66 Om shanti

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:39 AM

Thanks, cap! :-)

But to clarify, what I'm using is actually unused mushroom compost ! Usually what is sold as garden fertilizer is spent, as you say, but a local Agaricus grower had to close down the mushroom operation due to foreign competition but is continuing to produce the compost like before. So now it's marketed as garden fertilizer without having been used for mushrooms first.

Edited by Om shanti, 13 June 2009 - 08:40 AM.
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#67 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:41 AM

Thanks, cap! :-)

But to clarify, what I'm using is actually unused mushroom compost ! Usually what is sold as garden fertilizer is spent, as you say, but a local Agaricus grower had to close down the mushroom operation due to foreign competition but is continuing to produce the compost like before. So now it's marketed as garden fertilizer without having been used for mushrooms first.

dude i read it wrong then you said you use it as fertilizer and i read "Spent" hmm

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:44 AM

Most of this, which is called "champost" here (Champignon, the French word for mushroom and local word for buttons), is actually the leftovers after mushrooms have grown in it. But I found some that is made by a button growing farm that quit producing buttons but continued making the substrate . This is supposedly the exact same mix they used to use for growing the buttons in. But it's marketed for use as garden fertilizer just like its cousin, the spent button substrate .

oh man what a trip up! :rasta:
i misread that line totally and it threw off the whole thing :lol:
i skipped a half a sentence after seein "garden fertilizer"
now it all makes sense! :lol: great grow once again :)

#69 Om shanti

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:03 AM

Heh, no worries, cap, actually I also think that what I have written in this thread is a bit confusing. :-)

BTW, I tried a small dose of 0,5g dry but that was definitely too little. I would say the effects were a bit like 1g of cubes but of a different character. I was very tired when I drank the tea though. Next time I'll try 1g to see if that's enough for a real trip. And so on, in 0,5g increments, until I find the good dosage.

#70 Om shanti

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 03:38 PM

I wanted to upload a pic of especially one tray of the Hyper Overlayed Pan Strain ™. There is some on all trays, but it's especially on pictures 3 and 4 aka tray "2.c". It has to be said I dropped this on the floor right after I had spawned half a PF cake to this and applied casing layer (same time), so it got very disfigured even before it entered the incubator. The true extent of the overlay can only be revealed after a thorough autopsy is performed, after I let SWIM eat the few shrooms it does bear. But I suspect some of the 'bumpy' overlays are myc growths of up to 3 cm height above the substrate!

Two possible hypotheses currently
a) it's strain related
b) it's related to coir in the substrate

Raziel had the same kind of overlay problems, with the same prints but also used coir (about 20%) n the substrate. From looking at my first grow I _think_ it looks like I only had serious overlay on the trays in which I had used coir in (about 30% perhaps). But it will have to be tested with some new trays, made without any coir in them.

I tried searching a bit for coir and pans and overlay, but didn't go through the vaults meticuously. I found one photo where coir was used in the casing and which also had some very bumpy overlay, but that doesn't exactly prove anything. Anyway, any experiences with using coir with pans would be appreciated! It seems coir does have a reputation for causing overlay with cubes. If you grew pans with coir either in the substrate or the casing, please share how it went.

There are also some other factors that might have influenced the overlay development - such as overincubation with the casing layer already applied, etc.

There is one more thing I should mention. Raziel also had some brownish liquid forming on top of some of the overlay.. I also have this a few places as you might see. I'm not sure what to think of it, but it was suggested in Raziels thread that it could be bacteria or even a mold infection. I tend to think it's either genetic, or a residue from the poo-containing substrate. But any suggestions very welcome.

Substrate is PF cakes mixed with agaricus compost and coir (70:30). Casing mix is blended peat and coarse vermiculite (70:30 also I think). I dunked before putting in the fruiting chamber but am afraid I didn't dunk all properly, so a loud aquarium pump has been bubbling half the day and night. They are fruited in a still poorly insulated TIT setup, so the temperature at the bottom and in the substrate is probably 30-32C, but falls to about 26C at the height I expect the shrooms to reach eventually. First pins appeared 2 days after I started fruiting but it will not be a very even flush.

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#71 Om shanti

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 04:15 PM

As mentioned in another thread I tried watering two of the trays, B and C, and they seemed to respond pretty well to this. I was sure tray C would be only aborts, but it seems that the water made some of those aborts grow. The shrooms are sort of stunted, yet are growing. They hardly sporulate at all, and the caps don't mature/fold out. I wonder if this is a sign it's actually a specific overlayed strain - OR if it's just the overlay that causes generally stunted growth of the shrooms..!? I would lean towards option #2.. but don't know. http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1253308022

The other picture is of tray A, the only one that got a regular flush, just prior to harvesting. And tray B before I started pruning it (http://mycotopia.net...er-watering.jpg)

Any comments about the overlay/coir/strain question are still very welcome.. ;-):weedpoke:

Attached Thumbnails

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#72 spacecake

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 04:26 PM

Whatever the cause of the overlay is,you got a nice pinset on that watered tray !
Doesn't look like a bad grow after all.

Can you keep the temperature up ?
I have some trouble with that..,nights are getting cold here.

#73 Om shanti

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 04:36 PM

Yes, I'm very happily surprised about that tray. About temperatures: I'm cheating - using my TIT fruiting setup. Otherwise I couldn't grow these at all. My apartment faces north, so it's not warm enough here, day or night. I guess it's less than 20c inside in the daytime, dropping perhaps to 15-16c at night.

#74 Om shanti

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 07:44 AM

I decided to end the watering game, so here are the last pics of these coir/compost trays. 2nd flush of tray A, and what was left of tray B & C to harvest (I harvested off them continually). I got 5g aborts from tray C, just enough for a nice cup of tea.:weedpoke:

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  • 2c.JPG
  • 2c-aborts.JPG
  • 2a.JPG
  • 2b.JPG


#75 Om shanti

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 04:46 AM

Total dry yield of all 3 trays in this second run was 6,7g: 6-7 'chill out' or 3-4 strong doses for me.If I had picked and dried absolutely everything total yield would still have been less than 7,5g.

Next experiment is scheduled for late October or early November - I will then grow more of this strain but without coir, and try a new print I got (Pan Cyan "Jamaica") :)

#76 spacecake

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 11:59 AM

Enjoy the fruits of your labor !

#77 Om shanti

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 02:45 PM

The idea that coir induces overlay with pans is most probably complete bullocks, so I hereby take that back. :)
Since last I did find a number of logs of grows that used coir without any problems, and some of the other pan grows with lots of overlay (and from a different strain) didn't use coir, etc.
And after I spawned two cakes to a tray of compost without any coir, I also got the same type of overlay as last time.
Anyway, I won't bother anyone more with the causes of the overlay, at least not until I have grown a different pan strain or two and might have anything to say that's not just speculation. :)

I tried adding some casing on the overlay and putting the tray to fruiting immediately afterwards. I have no idea if that will be of any help though. (Last time I tried patching a pan tray it failed completely.)

I'm fruiting this without any fish tank bubbler since it's only just a single tray, so this will just get fanned and misted a couple of times a day, and I'm interested to see if it fares much worse for that reason.

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#78 hyphaenation

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 02:46 PM

Excellent thread !

:eusa_danc

#79 P4ulada

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:48 PM

Hell Yeah man!
Great log you did ^^
Your flushes was very impressive man, and I think you deserve it, very nice job ;)
I hope my first pan flush come too impressive like this:
largertrayharvest1.JPG

:bow:

Best Wishes :amazed:

#80 Om shanti

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:50 AM

Thanks P4ulada and Hyphaenation, glad you like it! :-)

It didn't seem like patching casing on the overlay did any good, I think I only managed to insult the mycelium. :eusa_booh: But a few pins are appearing, at least :)

Attached Thumbnails

  • pins.JPG
  • overlay revenge.JPG





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