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PH for Mesc extract


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#1 108

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 03:32 AM

A few questions about mescaline extraction:

1. When defatting cactus for extraction what PH do I want my mix of base-water and cactus powder to be before I do my xylene pulls?

2. What is the proportion of cactus powder to water that should be used? And how much Xylene should be used for the pulls?

3. If salting via HCL solution, what PH do I want the HCL-water to be before it is added to the xylene.

4. How much HCL solution do I want to add to my xylene when salting?

5. Do I want to put all my xylene pulls together and then salt or salt each pull on its own?

6. Can I put all the HCL solution together for evaporation?

Thanks for the help.

#2 whatchamacallit

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 04:11 AM

A few questions about mescaline extraction:

1. When defatting cactus for extraction what PH do I want my mix of base-water and cactus powder to be before I do my xylene pulls?


For defatting you would want the PH to be acidic or maybe around 3-4.

2. What is the proportion of cactus powder to water that should be used? And how much Xylene should be used for the pulls?


The water amount should fully cover the cactus without making the solution to sludgy or thick, but for a better measurement consult a posted tek that you are thinking about. As for the xylene, it would depend on how much mescaline you expected from the cacti. Usually enough to make it easy to separate, perhaps around 3-400 mls per pull on 250g or more of dried cacti.

3. If salting via HCL solution, what PH do I want the HCL-water to be before it is added to the xylene.


SWIM thinks he read a specific measurement posted by tregar of how much HCl to water, and he is not sure of the exact PH since he does it by eye usually.

4. How much HCL solution do I want to add to my xylene when salting?


SWIM also uses enough to make separation easy, but it would depend on how much mescaline you expect to pull. Surely a few hundred mls will pull at least a few grams, but he is unsure of the exact solubility of mesc HCl in water, although the answer may be posted somewhere. Excess water won't hurt, just require more evaporation, so err on the side of too much, if one is unsure.

5. Do I want to put all my xylene pulls together and then salt or salt each pull on its own?


SWIM combines all the xylene pulls before mixing with HCl water, and it works fine.

6. Can I put all the HCL solution together for evaporation?



This is fine.

Thanks for the help.


SWIM's pleasure, and perhaps in the morning when he has more time, he'll try and give some more specific answers for some of the questions he answered vaguely, but it is late and he is getting sleepy.
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#3 EmmisonJ

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 08:40 AM

for salting:
4-5 drops of 33% hcl per 1.5 cups dh2o is good

if titrating, shoot for a ph of 6 to protonate the mescaline and every other alkaloid with a pka close to mescaline's

#4 synth

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:27 AM

you probably don't even need it to be that concentrated.
4-5 drops will probably precip sanchez.

#5 EmmisonJ

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:03 PM

you probably don't even need it to be that concentrated.
4-5 drops will probably precip sanchez.


per 1.5 cup water always gets off-white (no brown at all) for swim. unsure what ph it is, swim should test it one day.

#6 Shadowlord

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:55 PM

I agree w/ E.J. Used his ratio and got white to off-white, but am planning to see what my yield looks like using a slightly weaker concentration next time.
It was white but 3 drops might be even better. It will take more water but water is easy to drive off so it will be worth the effort. I'll be sure to post pics when the time comes.
As for pH. 4-5 drops still lowers the water to between 2-3. I know it is time to put fresh HCl water in the Sep Funnel when this acidified water comes out of the S. Funnel either neutral or even basic sometimes ( the first pulls change pH quickly, it is the later saltings that take a lot more shaking etc to get them neutral ) I stop salting the Xylene when the the last 200 or 150mls of HCl water no longer neutralize.
Be sure to have a Sep Funnel or make a DIY one as freezing xylene/water for separation is time consuming and makes one have to do a lot of math to figure out how much water should be added etc.

Using E.J.s ratio of 4-5 drops or 1 drop per 75mls has always given good results and I have never gotten any Sanchez. All was usable as is. Although an acetone cleaning did make some good looking stuff even more crystalline and less fluffy which makes for much easier weighing/putting into caps.

#7 slummunky

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 01:19 PM

Agree!! 4-5 drops to 1.5 cups of water has always givin swim good clean salt!

#8 108

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 01:05 AM

Thank you all for the advice.

I am really after the PH numbers though. A few drops per cup isn't as accurate as I would like. I am starting with high concentration HCL and wanted to PH accordingly.

I guess I'll just have to experiment and find the best values on my own. I'll report back when I do this.

#9 Norman

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:04 AM

It takes a little trial and error to find the best pH for salting because the best pH depends on how much alkaloid one has in the NP.
My friend collects all of his NP pulls so that it's consistent and starts salting with a pH of around four and then checks to see how much it's gone up after salting and adjusts from there.
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#10 EmmisonJ

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:30 AM

Thank you all for the advice.

I am really after the PH numbers though.


in my post above i said titrate to a ph of 6. if you want more specific than that, then mescaline's pka is 9.56 so shoot for a ph of 7.56 at which point 99% of the mescaline is protonated. if you can't get that specific then shoot for 6 or 7. if you only titrate to a ph of 8 or so then you'll need to do multiple saltings, which i'd recommend anyways just to make sure you get it all.

also, if your hcl is highly concentrated you may want to dilute it, else the ph can drop pretty drastically depending on your addition rate / volume of water you're working with / concentration of hcl. give it about 5 minutes in between checking the ph

#11 Guest_dimension traveler_*

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:16 PM

what I do when I salt is start with a very small amount of acid water shake let seperate collect water, usually it comes out basic cause i didn't add enough acid so i add one drop then put it through the xylene again let seperate collect and check again. I do this until it comes out neutrol or just barely acidic then keep to precip. Correct me if I am wrong but if the water comes out basic wouldn't that meen the alkaloids are still in the xylene.

#12 Chips101

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 08:43 AM

for salting:
4-5 drops of 33% hcl per 1.5 cups dh2o is good

if titrating, shoot for a ph of 6 to protonate the mescaline and every other alkaloid with a pka close to mescaline's

What if one was working with a 13 % hcl ?

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#13 Chips101

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 08:47 AM

Thank you all for the advice.

I am really after the PH numbers though. A few drops per cup isn't as accurate as I would like. I am starting with high concentration HCL and wanted to PH accordingly.

I guess I'll just have to experiment and find the best values on my own. I'll report back when I do this.

I find that my quest for info sometimes gets lost in translation. I'm like you I always want a solid number to work off of first then I'll experiment

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#14 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 01:00 PM

Even if not titrating properly, you should still be using pH papers as a guide [hint: you can cut each pH strip into 20 pieces and use tweezers to test a microdrop of solution, a €1 pH paper pack will last ages].
Mescaline is soluble in water, this helps. I do salting pulls with distilled water and portions of 1M HCl. I'll get what I think is a respectable amount of acid in while monitoring pH and when the pH goes from strongly basic to mildly basic I set the water layer aside and add new distilled water to the organic layer and start again. This way you build up a pot of basic solution of your product while progressively adding less acid to the salting, so if you go a little over at the end and hit acid pH it should be mostly or fully neutralized when that last salting is mixed with the others. If its still basic you then add just enough acid to hit pH 7.

Significantly over acidifying while salting and then drying the acidic mescaline HCl solution gives you 'dirty sanchez', a brownish mescaline that's very difficult to clean up.
Your friends will tease you if you show them dirty sanchez.
Mildly over acidifying [like pH 5-6] gives you a dark orange product that can be cleaned up with acetone washes or [sometimes lossy] recrystallization while hitting pH 7 perfectly gives a light orange mescaline.
There seems to be a mild polymeric base of some kind that is salted after the majority of mescaline is neutralized, this is the orange. I have not determined if it is pharmacologically active on its own. It can be concentrated to a black gunk from the acetone washes.
I try out the light orange mescaline before deciding if I want to bother cleaning it up into cream [by acetone wash x2] or white [by also doing recrystallization]. If the orange stuff is nice I just leave it there so as to not loose its individual character.

You know this thread is 11 years old, right? lol

Edited by ElrikEriksson, 14 June 2020 - 01:03 PM.


#15 Chips101

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 01:12 AM

Even if not titrating properly, you should still be using pH papers as a guide [hint: you can cut each pH strip into 20 pieces and use tweezers to test a microdrop of solution, a €1 pH paper pack will last ages].
Mescaline is soluble in water, this helps. I do salting pulls with distilled water and portions of 1M HCl. I'll get what I think is a respectable amount of acid in while monitoring pH and when the pH goes from strongly basic to mildly basic I set the water layer aside and add new distilled water to the organic layer and start again. This way you build up a pot of basic solution of your product while progressively adding less acid to the salting, so if you go a little over at the end and hit acid pH it should be mostly or fully neutralized when that last salting is mixed with the others. If its still basic you then add just enough acid to hit pH 7.

Significantly over acidifying while salting and then drying the acidic mescaline HCl solution gives you 'dirty sanchez', a brownish mescaline that's very difficult to clean up.
Your friends will tease you if you show them dirty sanchez.
Mildly over acidifying [like pH 5-6] gives you a dark orange product that can be cleaned up with acetone washes or [sometimes lossy] recrystallization while hitting pH 7 perfectly gives a light orange mescaline.
There seems to be a mild polymeric base of some kind that is salted after the majority of mescaline is neutralized, this is the orange. I have not determined if it is pharmacologically active on its own. It can be concentrated to a black gunk from the acetone washes.
I try out the light orange mescaline before deciding if I want to bother cleaning it up into cream [by acetone wash x2] or white [by also doing recrystallization]. If the orange stuff is nice I just leave it there so as to not loose its individual character.

You know this thread is 11 years old, right? lol

I apologize for the fng question in the last few months I've turned a few people on to this site and I really couldn't give the numbers they were after. I am most grateful!

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