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Non Cased: Compressed vs Loose subs


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#21 eatyualive

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 06:31 PM

My uneducated guess would be the compressed sub would take slightly longer to colonize due to packing , but will give rise to larger , meatier fruits and have more flushes.
Can't wait to see some results. Thanks for doing this Eats.



hyph. they colonized at exactly the same time. everything is neck and neck right now.

tub 1 compressed tub

compressed2.jpg

tub 2 loose tub

loose2.jpg

#22 Hippie3

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 07:25 AM

ah, at least on the surface.
need to plug it, take core samples
as compression isn't evident on a surface
but under rather

#23 extrememetal43

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 09:08 AM

good point hip, really cant wait to c the results of this one! best experiment in a while that ive seen...good work man!

#24 eatyualive

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 12:08 PM

ah, at least on the surface.
need to plug it, take core samples
as compression isn't evident on a surface
but under rather


yeah i put my force by weight on it. but its only about 1.5" lower than the fluffy substrate. i have no way of measuring how much pressure was used to compress it.

#25 Indonesia

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 01:39 PM

i have no way of measuring how much pressure was used to compress it.

Heres how to get rough PSI measurement. Take the measurement of the area of the bottom of the bin in inches(length x width). then take one bin and put it over top the other bin when you compress, standing on the top bin. then take your weight divided by the area and you get pounds per square inch.

foaf remembers reading about compressing substrate in TMC or GGMM, not sure if it mentions how much pressure used and don't have a copy of either to find out


:rasta:

#26 eatyualive

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 04:26 PM

Heres how to get rough PSI measurement. Take the measurement of the area of the bottom of the bin in inches(length x width). then take one bin and put it over top the other bin when you compress, standing on the top bin. then take your weight divided by the area and you get pounds per square inch.

foaf remembers reading about compressing substrate in TMC or GGMM, not sure if it mentions how much pressure used and don't have a copy of either to find out


:rasta:

ill remember that for next time.

#27 spacecake

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 06:50 PM

Information gets me high, thanks!:puke:


lol..good one...:)

#28 Toadstool

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 11:32 PM

I tried this myself about 3 months ago. Used Coir,Verm. and worm poo. The fluffy was better all around. Got about an O more out of the fluffy, the packed took about 2 weeks longer to fruit also.

#29 eatyualive

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 04:25 PM

I tried this myself about 3 months ago. Used Coir,Verm. and worm poo. The fluffy was better all around. Got about an O more out of the fluffy, the packed took about 2 weeks longer to fruit also.


interesting. two weeks long. what strain?

#30 eatyualive

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:59 PM

well. not sure how many days. but pins started in both tubs today. the compressed substrate is slightly ahead on the pin formation. it has orange pinheads while the uncompressed tub is just beginning to show color.
very close neck and neck. might be gone during the conclusion of this thread. that will suck.


tub 1 compressed tub

compressedpins.jpg

tub 2 loose tub

loosepins.jpg

#31 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 05:40 PM

Nice, keep it comin!

#32 extrememetal43

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:37 AM

go pins go!

#33 ShroomGuerilla

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 08:40 AM

Pulling up my seat.
Great project Eats.

#34 eatyualive

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:39 AM

update. you can see differences now. the compressed sub seems to be holding more water on the surface. both bins treated equally. no tilting or anything like that.

tub 1 compressed tub

compressedpins2.jpg

tub 2 loose tub

loosepins2.jpg

#35 eatyualive

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:06 AM

someone brought up a good point.

I noticed in the compressed/loose bin thread that your tubs look wet on the sub...

The reason i say anything is because i recently started doin tubs with poo and such. but i thought it wasnt good to have pooling water on the sub....

SO the other day i took a paper towel and dapped the water up...it looked like yours, w/o as many pins. Anyways, i am curious, was this unneccasary on my part, the shrooms really didnt seem to mind....i just thought id heard water on the sub was a no go...

I dunno your help would be sweet...thanks man.:headbang:


its droplets of water. what you see is ok. but any denser than that and i tilt the bin to allow the moisture to roll off. also strain dependent. the tas is real tolerant of it. other strains may not be. so i might tilt those more. or wipe the lids more.

i used to do that with the paper towel. and still do depending on how much moisture you see. let it play it out. do one tub where you don't dab it with a paper towel. do another tub where you do.

i think small amounts of water are fine from experience. but this is substrate surface not casings. i might agree that a casing shouldn't have pooling water on it. and that its more sensitive to getting contams from it. but substrates are a bit tougher imho.

but once it gets to the fruiting stage. make sure to drop the rh about 10 percent by opening holes or whatever means you can. bc the water on the surface plus the fruting will create more moisture and water. and it may cause problems. thats usually where i see problems. right at the 2nd day of fruiting without dropping the rh.

a good indicator of this happening with mioisture buildup on the substrate is when you see your lid start to form water droplets on it. then its time to tilt or wipe that lid.

i do preventative things usually to combat pooling water if i see it forming.

1) sometimes there is so much moisture in a bin. you can actually see the water pooling underneath the black plastic. if your biin is completely colonized, you may dump this water out around the time pins start forming. this will help out quite a bit.

2) tilt the bin at an angle so the water runs off the substrate surface to the bottom of the tub. you can do this overnight or for several hours until you can visibly see that the water is gone. also tilting the bin you do not have to open the chamber at all. lessens your exposure to contamination as well. thats why preventative is the best imho.

3) open polyfil holes for a few hours. not too long so you don't dry out your tub. i find that 4 hours is my max before i start seeing the tub dry out.

4) you can wipe condensation on the sides and top of your bin with a clean paper towel. just make sure you do this in a clean area. and be clean.

#36 seedlessstinky1

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:15 AM

Tubs are lookin great.:bow:

#37 eatyualive

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:24 AM

update. you can see differences now. the compressed sub seems to be holding more water on the surface. both bins treated equally. no tilting or anything like that.

tub 1 compressed tub



tub 2 loose tub



looking at these pictures i noticed something i didn't realize. a few grows ive had i had to press down the sub bc dunking would have been impossible given the height of the holes in these tubs. so a few actually looked very similar in growth to the bins im seeing. so thats a good thing. maybe some of those crazier or even flush were due to compressing. although ive not done it too much .just a few times recently not as firmly compressed as this sub either.

the timing for this experiment can't be more horrible. probably not be around when it matures to finish the experiment. damn...

#38 extrememetal43

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 11:05 AM

interesting info about pooling of water. im having a problem ive never had before, im having to wipe the sides and lids daily since ive started incubating my tubs. it has a ton of water beads on the surface, no casing. i guess when i tilt it the water droplets are not large enough to pour off so i guess im cool. but thanks so much for the info exactly the problem im dealin with now.

#39 eatyualive

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:17 PM

interesting info about pooling of water. im having a problem ive never had before, im having to wipe the sides and lids daily since ive started incubating my tubs. it has a ton of water beads on the surface, no casing. i guess when i tilt it the water droplets are not large enough to pour off so i guess im cool. but thanks so much for the info exactly the problem im dealin with now.


yes a little is ok. you don't really need to wipe the sides until fruiting begins. unless its just really oversatured. if you do big tubs. like above 64 quart or have very deep subs. id say you might need to do this more often. and if you spawn at a slightly higher temp before allowing everything to cool all the way. you may get more condensation buildup.

#40 extrememetal43

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 03:25 PM

o theres a ton this time idk y on both monotubs im incubating at the moment. i mean drippin after two days from the lid. i used to incubate tubs at 80+ F but theres a lot less condensation when done at room temp and they colonize just as fast. these were done at room temp idk whats up with them! it may be bc ive had the air on lately and it may be causing the outside of the tub to be a lil bit cooler causing the condensation.

i guess youl be away this weekend when these are about done. ive been away a lot this past month and have been lucky that nothin needed harvested at those times...




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