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Non Cased: Compressed vs Loose subs


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#41 eatyualive

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:14 AM

tub 1 compressed tub

compressedpins3.jpg





tub 2 loose tub

loosepins3.jpg

#42 mydarling

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:57 AM

on the topic of condensation - i've had my fair share of issues with it in the past when using monotubs. i like to see the condensation because it tells me the humidity is high enough, but it's also good to keep it in check to avoid puddling and such.

here's how i deal with the condensation:

1. make sure to not keep the tub near a window (even if it's closed) or an air vent, where temps can fluctuate a lot between night and day. this seems to cause a higher incidence of condensation.

2. always use a plastic bag inside the tub (pour substrate mixture on top, curl sides of plastic bag over surface of substrate). this ensures that if condensation on the sides drips down, it will pool underneath the plastic bag and not pool underneath the substrate itself, thus avoiding the soggy substrate and favorable contamination conditions.

3. drill a couple holes in a corner of the bottom of the tub. keep them taped most of the time, but open em once in a while so you can put the tub up at an angle and let the puddled water drain out.

4. dab the surface of the substrate with paper towel when necessary to remove the droplets. like eats said, a little bit of water collecting is not a bad thing - i've never really experienced any negative effects from the droplets on the substrate, but i like to dab 'em anyway.

5. wipe the sides and top of tub with paper towel daily or as needed. it will come back within a few hours!

don't mean to jack your awesome thread, eats - i was just inspired to chime with some tips since it came up :)

#43 mydarling

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:58 AM

btw eats, i've been watching this experiment closely and am interested to see the progress of the tubs. i always leave my tubs loose, so it'll be cool to see if that's actually better!

#44 eatyualive

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:03 AM

on the topic of condensation - i've had my fair share of issues with it in the past when using monotubs. i like to see the condensation because it tells me the humidity is high enough, but it's also good to keep it in check to avoid puddling and such.

here's how i deal with the condensation:

1. make sure to not keep the tub near a window (even if it's closed) or an air vent, where temps can fluctuate a lot between night and day. this seems to cause a higher incidence of condensation.

2. always use a plastic bag inside the tub (pour substrate mixture on top, curl sides of plastic bag over surface of substrate). this ensures that if condensation on the sides drips down, it will pool underneath the plastic bag and not pool underneath the substrate itself, thus avoiding the soggy substrate and favorable contamination conditions.

3. drill a couple holes in a corner of the bottom of the tub. keep them taped most of the time, but open em once in a while so you can put the tub up at an angle and let the puddled water drain out.

4. dab the surface of the substrate with paper towel when necessary to remove the droplets. like eats said, a little bit of water collecting is not a bad thing - i've never really experienced any negative effects from the droplets on the substrate, but i like to dab 'em anyway.

5. wipe the sides and top of tub with paper towel daily or as needed. it will come back within a few hours!

don't mean to jack your awesome thread, eats - i was just inspired to chime with some tips since it came up :)


yeah i don't so much like the holes in each bottom corner. when i dunk. i don't want water to come pouring out.

also, stacking tubs on top of tubs. limits the condensation on the lid of the bottom tub. ill often rearrange tubs if a tub gets more condensation on the lid of one tub placing another tub on top of it.

i do place my tubs right next to a window. but the blinds are closed. but ive not noticed any heavy temperature fluctuations. or any condensation buildup. might vary from climate to climate if outside temp is really cold compared to your inside temp. the bins closer to the window have better pinsets usually.

#45 mydarling

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:20 PM

yeah i don't so much like the holes in each bottom corner. when i dunk. i don't want water to come pouring out.


i keep the holes duct taped for the majority of the time, including during dunking. they're only open when i need to drain collected condensation that pooled at the bottom. :)

#46 eatyualive

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 05:06 PM

tub 1 compressed tub

compressedmature3.jpg





tub 2 loose tub

loosemature3.jpg

another loose tub of tas in 64 quart tub below.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 64tas.jpg


#47 mydarling

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 05:09 PM

hmmm, looking pretty darn close there. loose tub maybe has a slightly denser pinset?

#48 eatyualive

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:18 AM

tub 1 compressed tub

compressmature4.jpg





tub 2 loose tub

loosemature4.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • 65tas2.jpg


#49 spacecake

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:46 AM

Looks like it's a noticeable difference...!
I wonder how the final weight difference will be...

#50 pvacant

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 01:16 PM

ok a couple of questions for you "old" pros.

i have noticed in all the above pictures of Eats awesome experiment, that the compressed sub seems like less fruit, but larger. and the loose sub definitely has more fruit , but seem smaller. (at least in the pictures)
Now, will the total weight (or outcome) be roughly the same? or do you think not?


And on using bags inside of bins....when i did that i had a terrible outbreak of trich. I didn't put holes in the bag for drainage. should I? I am assuming yes,now; as to mydarling saying he tilts and drains,.... then there must be some holes in the plastic, right?

Quote: mydarling....
condensation on the topic of condensation - i've had my fair share of issues with it in the past when using monotubs. i like to see the condensation because it tells me the humidity is high enough, but it's also good to keep it in check to avoid puddling and such.

here's how i deal with the condensation:

1. make sure to not keep the tub near a window (even if it's closed) or an air vent, where temps can fluctuate a lot between night and day. this seems to cause a higher incidence of condensation.

2. always use a plastic bag inside the tub (pour substrate mixture on top, curl sides of plastic bag over surface of substrate). this ensures that if condensation on the sides drips down, it will pool underneath the plastic bag and not pool underneath the substrate itself, thus avoiding the soggy substrate and favorable contamination conditions.

3. drill a couple holes in a corner of the bottom of the tub. keep them taped most of the time, but open em once in a while so you can put the tub up at an angle and let the puddled water drain out.


umm I'm confused........!

#51 mydarling

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:48 PM

[eats sorry to jack your thread again but i want to respond to the question! :heart: please feel free to break this discussion off into a new thread if you like.]

hi pvacant,

first, i am a she and not a he. ;)

second, i think the trich you got was most likely unrelated to the bag. i don't see any reason a plastic bag would increase the chances for trich. the purpose of the plastic bag is so that water that rolls down the sides of the tub will collecter UNDER the bag - which is away from the substrate. the water thus collects between the bottom of the plastic bag and the bottom of the tub.

this is why there are holes in the tub, and not the bag: if you had holes in the bag, the water would seep through it and back into the bottom of the substrate, which is where you dont want it. but if they're in the TUB itself, the water does not contact the substrate because the bag is acting as a barrier between the pooled water and the substrate - and you can drain the water out of the tub through the holes you made in the bottom.
does that help? :)

here are some pics to help clarify:

bottom of tub with 3 holes drilled in a corner for drainage
http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1243021939

the holes are taped up for the duration of the tub's incubation, fruiting, and dunking, EXCEPT to drain excess pooled water:
http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1243021939

plastic bag is placed into the bottom of the tub (sides taped up temporarily to facilitate dumping in the substrate)
http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1243021939

after substrate/spawn is added, the sides of the bag are curled down over the top. thus, if water drips down the sides, it will be not able to contact the substrate - it will roll directly to the bottom of the tub, where it can be drained.
http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1243021939

lastly, diagram of how the drainage works:
http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1243023366

Attached Thumbnails

  • tub at 00 days 12 smaller.JPG
  • tub at 00 days 06 smaller.JPG
  • tub at 00 days 04 smaller.JPG
  • tub at 00 days 02 smaller.JPG

Attached Files



#52 eatyualive

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:29 PM

omg md, your so mean. jk... nice illustration actually.

#53 eatyualive

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:21 PM

tub 1 compressed tub







tub 2 loose tub



looks like the compressed tub is having a really good 2nd flush.

below is another loose tas tub and a sa clone tub super rhizo.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 64tas2.jpg
  • 64tas3.jpg
  • loosemature5.jpg
  • 64tas1.jpg
  • lcompressedmature5.jpg
  • loosemature4.5.jpg
  • compressedmature4.5.jpg


#54 Getitosis

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 02:06 AM

the loose sub is looking more plentiful imo.

good job eatyualive!

#55 eatyualive

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:20 AM

no time for conclusion. the weight results will have to be tested on the next trial run.

from a visual standpoint. the yield is very similar. looks to be about two of the smaller 44 quart tubs equals the one 64 quart tub by a visual estimation.


tub 1 compressed tub

compressdone.jpg

compresshav.jpg



tub 2 loose tub

loosedone.jpg

looseharv.jpg


here is the 64 quart tub results

64-done.jpg

64harv.jpg

there is another trial tub running of a loose sub coming in 64 quart as well. looking nice fluffy and white. strands sticking all over the place. will post soon.

so from a visual standpoint the fruits were meatier on the compressed subs. while the loose subs were a bit slimmer. the harvest pictures do nothing justice as the piles hide everything. when more time is available. the next trial runs will be posted. probably another strain. but still compared.

#56 pvacant

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 10:57 AM

thanks mydarling,
that helps ALOT. great pictures. it makes much more since now. i had sworn of using bags from that fiasco. but, with this info, i'll go at it again, thankyou
and...sorry for the gender mess up, won't happen again. :hugs:


still not sure about compressed vs loose. looking forward to the next trial run. have a great memorial day.

#57 eatyualive

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:21 PM

sadly off all 3 subs total yield was just over 8z. 4 in the big tub 2 in the smaller tubs. would most likely been double that had the harvest not been premature. 2nd flush will be tested. along with some other strains in the near future. timing was just off.

#58 feralronin

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:34 PM

Cool eats. I have been watching this one to see what happens.

#59 eatyualive

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:28 PM

the loose tubs absorbed far more water than the compressed tub did. in the morning. the loose tub substrate was sitting above the water and very little water dumped out the compressed tub, most of the water dumped out after the dunk.

#60 extrememetal43

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:16 PM

looks like the first flushes were neck n neck but that may have a big impact on the second flush...




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