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help with agar substitute isolation


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#21 Guest_valleyofmushies_*

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:28 PM

easy as hell ......seriously

and i will post pics of the dishes and cuts i'm about to make and one dish is fruiting.....prolly cause i check for green mold every day.....and daily light does things like that.lol

#22 Sideshow

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:50 PM

Awesome post... this looks great.
Something to look forward to in the near future, and makes me wish I handn't bought all that damn EXPENSVE agar powder.
Good job

#23 masterplain88

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 04:42 PM

some updates would be cool maybe a run down from top to bottom on your tek when you get time. i am just getting ready to get into agar got petries on the way and some other stuff to. hopefully it arives in time and i find a tek to isolate this big gunn. i was going to last time but shit didnt work out.
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#24 Guest_valleyofmushies_*

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 08:03 PM

hey masterpalin.....the run down on my tek is stated above with colorful pics and words to read .....
easiest tek ur'll ever do
have fun in the kitchen everyone....and so far one person is trying this out ...maybe they will give some updates that confirms that it works

#25 bumber

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 07:44 AM

hey masterpalin.....the run down on my tek is stated above with colorful pics and words to read .....
easiest tek ur'll ever do
have fun in the kitchen everyone....and so far one person is trying this out ...maybe they will give some updates that confirms that it works


Kinda been awhile since this thread happened, wondering if anything ever came of it with the others that tryed it.

I happened to make up a batch following the recipe that calls for 1cup water to 1/2cup oatmeal...heres what I did.

Put 1/2cup store brand oatmeal, and 1tsp store brand 'orange' flavor jello into a big enough jar, mixed slightly...added 1cup warm almost hot water and shook that up with a lid on. I then added that to various jars, including wide half pints and 4oz babyfood jars...all had solid dome lids, left loose during cooking and covered in foil. I pressure cooked the jars, containing a small "petri" portion of mix, for 1hr at 15psi. This resulted in some of the small 4oz jars boiling over but all the halfpints were fine, most of them were halfpints so no big loss.

I ended up, after cooling for 10-12hrs, with a kind of pink looking solid gel in the bottoms of each jar. When I opened one as a test jar to see how solid it was, it was almost the same as jello made in the fridge but softer than agar I have made before. I shot them with a drop or two of multi-spore solution each a few days ago and have them at 80F+...no signs yet, but still early.

Hope the orange kind works the same, cant think why it wouldnt...anyone else trying/tryed this should jump in and talk about it. It seems too easy if it all works out as planned :headbang:

#26 ggod

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 10:00 AM

I am curious, at what temperature does this start to liquefy?
That is my main worry about using agar sub's.
I have made oatmeal agar before and this recipe has me really interested in how well it holds up.
If you could give me a review of this agar substitute vs. oatmeal agar, that would be awesome.

#27 Guest_valleyofmushies_*

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 02:14 PM

yeah bumper i hope it works ...if not i did do it in a QT jr and poured off right before it cooled and got solid about 5 hours after turning the PC off and i poured it infront of my flow hood...... and i used lemon jello.....never tried any diff flavors......i hope it works with orange and u should keep us posted so i know if any other jello works ... and did u use walmart jello (great value-brand.maybe the cheap is the best.).....srry to be so specific but i read some post on this sometimes and its seems u guys want exact recipes to the T sometimes ...i'm just tryng to offer up wat i do... but don't be discourage .....i came up with this recipe high and refined it high 3 times till its works NOW for me(done it about 5 times for myself -same recipe as above),and i did it by not being discouraged!!!

dream on

#28 Guest_valleyofmushies_*

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 02:25 PM

ggod hey man wat up...i did this project first this past summer and i live deep south where its hot in the summer(around 80-degrees if not a lil hotter with a/c on .....did it in my bed room at the foot of my bed on my desk with flow hood posted up thru whole project(not on but ready to turned on for checking on things.) i did it in some dollar store plastic small sized shoe boxes from dollar store(my favorite store...i love the tub isle. and i used some petri dishes and put it together and stacked em in the plastic shoe boxes...- and letf in my room at room temps...i'm so lazy....lol i wish the summer would come back to the south ...my amazons don't act right in this house now.....:(

heres wat my agar did also
http://mycotopia.net...s-11-08-012.jpg
http://mycotopia.net...s-11-08-016.jpg
http://mycotopia.net...s-11-08-022.jpg
.....it fruits good lol for agar but i never used real agar just jello agar....:) my own rec.

#29 Thre365ive

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 02:33 PM

Im thinking that you could probably substitute the oatmeal for potato flakes/potato water infusion and some Karo and have yourself some PDA. I might try this out.

Im definitely gonna try your TEK as-is when I run out of agar, though.

#30 bumber

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

Im thinking that you could probably substitute the oatmeal for potato flakes/potato water infusion and some Karo and have yourself some PDA. I might try this out.

Im definitely gonna try your TEK as-is when I run out of agar, though.


I would like to see this 'PKJ' PotatoKaroJello :lol: but for real I think the oatmeal works just fine the way this recipe is, you would have to rework it(maybe) to account for the tater flakes.

I can do a water bath for you to see what the melting point it, or when it turns to liquid ;) But they already stay solid at 90F with no indication of melting so Im thinking around 100F+ before you start to see anything, and if you are letting them get that high your bigger concern in stalling due to high heat.

When you do mix karo I would only use as much as you would in LC, like to make 1cup of water I would do 240cc water to 2 1/2 teaspoons Karo. Then use that as your 1cup water, im thinking still use 1teaspoon jello but I would try 3/4cup tater flakes instead of 1/2cup oatmeal at first just to try it. You could even do 1/2cup flakes first to see how thick it is, if it looks thick it will be fine when it cooks...if it looks thin like water I would add the other 1/4cup. By thick I dont mean cake batter or bread dough, but thicker than syrup or something.

:rasta:

*you should get some really clean("sterile") prints off those petri cakes...

#31 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 11:49 PM

Wow, nice... I was looking for an agar substitute and this one looks excellent! Nice job valley!

#32 bumber

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 12:56 AM

I got Jell-o brand because it was on sale at the same price as walmart brand 'Great Value' and I used Kroger(store name) store brand "whole grain, cooks in 1 minute" oatmeal. They didnt have the lemon flavor one when I was there, but I cant see the flavor affecting how it gels and what grows on it. I think the only different ingredient would be "lemon/orange/watermelon and or natural flavors" nothing that concerns us...hell if its cheaper I would say use plain, unflavored gelatin. Mix it up just as your recipe states, but use the Karo water I described above...or try potato extract water and oats. Really the only thing that wont work is not trying it :lol: Not saying your recipe doesn't work, just saying if you change the recipe expect it not to work at first and you will have to tweak it...just like you did for this one(thanks).

edit* I also made the jello minus the teaspoon of powder, following the directions, and it came out just like normal :lol: so you can either save the extra for the next batch of agar or cook it up and eat it as jello ;) I also think, but cant prove:mistrust:, that all products in america(the world?) are made by the same big ass factory using the same exact products just with different names put on them. :p

oh yea, the one thing that WILL change between flavors is the color...your's seems agar colored, mine is pretty much pink. With lime you will get green and raspberry/cherry you will likely get red, Id think with plain gelatin you will get greyish oatmeal colored. Did you choose lemon to get a yellow/agar color or was that all you had Valley?

#33 tenjin

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:13 AM

Ya man this is nice! very innovative of you and its pretty cost effective to boot. funny pic too of the plates fruiting hehe

#34 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:14 AM

Would the pH be the same from the citrus jellos to non citrus?

EDIT- Clone those from the agar, each and every one of them! That is a really good sign when substrains will fruit on agar!

Edited by kcmoxtractor, 28 December 2009 - 01:15 AM.
oh yeah!


#35 bumber

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 02:12 AM

Would the pH be the same from the citrus jellos to non citrus?

EDIT- Clone those from the agar, each and every one of them! That is a really good sign when substrains will fruit on agar!


The citrus ones, probly all the flavored ones, will be slightly acidic compaired to the plain gelatin...but that shouldn't be an issue since you are using...what like 10x more water than gelatin.(not being rude just making a guess about water content) I think pH should be about the same with either mix.

I was going to say not to clone them...just because you dont know how they will act on whatever substrate you put them on. Yes you will have a fruiting strain, but it may never make bigger fruit than what you see on that plate...it may? but I would rather clone a monster from the subs I plan to use over and over again. IMO :headbang:

edit* 48 teaspoons in a cup of water, plus the 1/2cup oats...I dont even think the pH would change at all.

#36 bumber

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 02:27 AM

I was really interested in this thread because I had tryed it with just gelatin and Karo pretty much a year ago and no one I told about it had anything to say...so I just stopped working with it.

gelatin agar substitute: 3/4 cup water mixed with 2 packets(7.2 grams each) and 1/8 cup karo...
mix 1/4cup room temp water with the 2 packs of gel mix, let desolve.(gel mix should be VERY thick and even have powder left in it)
next mix 1/2cup boiling water to desolved gel mix in the pan
you boiled the water in. let all powder desolve in the pan over a low heat(just a bit of steam rising)
for about 5 minutes gently stirring till all the clumps/powder is gone. let cool in the pan
untill the steam has completly stopped then add the 1/8 cup Karo(2 tablespoons i think) mixing
it well.(dont stir hard) after mixed well you can add 1/8cup (i have a measuring spoon that big, if you dont
then use 2 tablespoons) liquid to each widemouth half pint, or use how ever much you want
per dish or other jar(i only use 1/2pints so thats the only measure I use) PC the containers for 20min
15psi, then let cool in the PC...stays hard at incubation temps.
this mix should give you enough for 10-12 jars maybe more
if you make it thinner(not as deep in the jar)...I like mine a little thick. one box of gelatin(one Ounce or 4 envelopes) should do 24 jars
(my box of gel was 4 packets of powder ~7 grams each)


copy&paste write up of how I did mine

#37 zodd

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 10:43 AM

whoo man this looks worth a try, real nice! im experimenting with bear agar at the minuet, but i think i may have to put this on the testing to do list.


just a one dumb question for ya though. would i be right in thinking that this (oj) agar substitute works well because of the jeling properties of both the jello and the oatmeal combined. as i know jelly on its own with say malt would not stay solid for long.



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#38 bumber

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 10:53 AM

whoo man this looks worth a try, real nice! im experimenting with bear agar at the minuet, but i think i may have to put this on the testing to do list.


just a one dumb question for ya though. would i be right in thinking that this (oj) agar substitute works well because of the jeling properties of both the jello and the oatmeal combined. as i know jelly on its own with say malt would not stay solid for long.


IMO I think thats a great question...if you read the recipe I list it uses like 4-8 times as much gelatin, whatever it works out to be. The oatmeal becomes pretty sticky on its own, if you ever ate a bowl you know this. The mix of gelatin and oatmeal gives it some nutes, a gel/solid texture and the moisture you need. I would think oatmeal by itself would work but would be real grainy and hard to get the moisture right. The gelatin adds some solid body to it and makes the surface smooth. I dont think gelatin and malt would work if used in the oatmeal recipe instead of oatmeal, I think you would have to add more gelatin.

Im no scientist though, :lol:

edit* (oj)agar might get confusing down the road if this takes off big, I think valley should make up a name...like OatJel or Jell-Oats :lol:

#39 Guest_valleyofmushies_*

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 11:49 AM

i used lemon like u said man to give it the agar color......and yes i do also think that the same big factory makes it all but i was trying to go ahead and offer clues to why it didn't work if it didn't in fact..... hope it does tho-flavor shouldn't affect outcome.
and yes i will try the karo additive and should i use something else like it?????

and extractor i'm sorry but i know i could have done something with those dishes but there trashed now.....thats wat i get for getting baked with friends alot instead of going home and getting baked infront of flow hood with my project. thats was like 2 months ago....the strains were brazilian....and amazon and the amazon was started from clone tissue from LC which i never run out of cause i have back up LCs
oh and there was more lil dishes with fruits but i gave all lil fruits to my friend that got me into this...he tripped alright, couldn't drive home.

and idk about PH at all i'm dumb lol

and yes zodd i made up this rec.. by being high and thinking jello hardens like agar...and then looked up in a book by Paul that said agar rec. and just picked the oatmeal as my next ingredient ......because yes it does too jello up like if u leave it in the microwave too long and it dries up.. same concept
i'm gonna do some up again soon and try adding karo tho

and bumper ..i'm not good at naming things i say watever catches on will be wats its called lol
just like alot of words lol

#40 bumber

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 09:50 AM

I got bacteria in half the cultures I made up and got green mold on one babyfood jar that still had paper stuck to the outside, the mold was growing on the paper :lol: not really funny, it sucks, but I had the baby jars in a coffee can in the incubator so I dont think the mold spread too far. The reason I put those jars in the can is so I can pick up 8-10 jars at once out of the incubator to look at or use or whatever ;)

The other cultures have shown no signs of anything, but I was using old spore syringes so Im thinking the spores were stalled...like 8-10 months in syringes, kept at room temps and mailed a few times :drk: I thought if this didnt get them goin they were dead :horse:

edit- forgot to add that I will be cooking some more today, not sure what flavor ill use but this time Im going to use fresh prints and see how that goes. :D




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