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Whatcha's Easy MHRB STB Extraction, Step by Step Pictorial


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#281 dmtsymphony

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:33 PM

So, SWIM wants to do this again, because it was so much fun to see the fruits of his labour actually pay off! The problem is, he only bought two little cans of Naphtha on his trip to the states, and so now has run out of solvent. In Canada, there is very little available in the way of solvents for extraction. SWIM has looked around on the forums, and finds a lot of the threads on this topic highly confusing, as they all presume a certain amount of knowledge, or else they contradict each other throughout the course of the thread. Here is something SWIM has picked up from his research: Apparently, a solvent called Bestine is available in Canada. Also, a solvent called Ronsonol. Now from what SWIM can gather, most people seem to suggest the Bestine for recrystallization, but some people are suggesting it can be used for pulls. What SWIM is wondering is if Bestine can indeed be used for pulls, and if either of these solvents can be used for freeze precipitation? Please - anyone with info....save SWIM another time consuming trip to the states.

#282 Guest_Yogin_*

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:56 PM

You can use Bestine and it is even better than naptha, just more expensive and harder to find in the states

#283 McDozd

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:58 PM

Bestine for sure. Good find. :eusa_clap
MD

#284 ryanzreality

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 04:33 PM

***Off topic***

I just wanted to thank Whatchamacallit for this great thread. It has helped many people to enlighten themselves. Thanks for all your many contributions and tips. May your memory go down in topia history.

R.I.P.Whatcha 01/2007-06/10/2010

***Resume Topic***

#285 dmtsymphony

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:35 AM

So you guys think Bestine will work better than Naphtha - that is great info. Will it work the same? In other words, follow Whatcha's extraction entirely, and do a freeze precip just subbing Bestine for Naphtha?

#286 Guest_TaterBoard_*

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:51 AM

So you guys think Bestine will work better than Naphtha - that is great info. Will it work the same? In other words, follow Whatcha's extraction entirely, and do a freeze precip just subbing Bestine for Naphtha?


i dont think this is correct. the reason bestine is used is because it crashes out the dmt better. this means it doesnt hold dmt well. the principle of re-x is that the yellow oils will drop out and the clean dmt will be suspended in the bestine to be freeze precipd (it only takes a couple hours vs 24-48 for naptha) or slow evapd.

so im sure itll work but i doubt youll get the sort of yield whatchas tek accomplishes.

off topic:

RIP WHATCHA
you did a lot for us buddy and we respect you for that and for your friendship. your knowledge and expertise in addition to your general presence will be missed.


EDIT: it appears im wrong. you wont get full spectrum but it could be the fast route to cleaner dmt via stb... if you can afford that much heptane.

Heptane(bestine) Vs Naptha @ the nexus.

Edited by TaterBoard, 11 June 2010 - 03:59 AM.


#287 dmtsymphony

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:06 PM

just noticed former member on Whatcha's avatar. Wonder why?

Edited by dmtsymphony, 11 June 2010 - 11:23 PM.


#288 dmtsymphony

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:28 PM

SWIM has some interesting observations. Hoping some of you can offer insight. A re-x was attempted tonight with warm Naphtha. It worked. Crystals came back whiter. Here is the clincher though. SWIM tried some of the re-x spice, and noticed a much harsher taste than the stuff had before re-x. Not only that, the effects seem diminished. Also, gone is the mothball smell, replaced by something quite awful smelling. Hard to describe the smell.

SWIM is wondering what to attribute all of this too. Do some of you prefer your spice as it is after the initial extraction? SWIM thinks he definitely prefers his spice the way it was. The only thing SWIM is thinking may have contributed to the awful taste of the spice is maybe the Naphtha didn't dry entirely? If that is the case, is SWIM going to die of cancer now for smoking the spice before the Naphtha had entirely dried?

Edited by dmtsymphony, 11 June 2010 - 11:33 PM.


#289 bluelotuschild

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 11:24 PM

Hello all, new member here, but certainly not a first time visitor.

SWIM is in mid extract using this tek with hexane as a solvent. SWIM has run into some problems separating the hexane solvent layer, and was wondering if he should have just used naptha, as the tek instructed. SWIM read varying accounts stating that hexane is an excellent solvent for DMT extraction and thus decided to go with it. SWIM has been using ~500 g per jug versus 454 g (1 lb.) described in the tek.


During the first pull, SWIM realized that using a hot water bath was not allowing the solvent layer to separate, so he took it out of water to separate at room temperature. However, after ~90 minutes, all of the solvent had yet to separate out. SWIM went ahead and removed the solvent layer using a separatory funnel anyways. After this, SWIM added 8 tbls. of pellet NaOH, 150 mL dH20, and ¾ cup of non-iodized sea salt (to make the water layer more polar to facilitate separation) to each jug.

SWIM is currently in process with the second pull and was wondering if anybody had any suggestions. Is hexane a good solvent for this tek?

Also, SWIM is having trouble pouring off the solvent layer so efficiently, as seen in the pictures for this tek. The surface area of the gallon water jug seems too large to efficiently pour off the solvent layer without including large amounts of MHRB/base water sludge. Any suggestions for removing the solvent layer more efficiently besides just using a glass turkey baster?

And lastly, has anybody had any trials using potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide for DMT extraction? I imagine KOH would work well, but KOH is slightly soluble in some organic solvents, and thus may leave higher residual traces in the solvent.


Any and all help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Edited by bluelotuschild, 21 June 2010 - 01:18 AM.
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#290 Guest_dragooncook442_*

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:39 AM

Yeah Whatcha's method always works well for SWIM...

#291 dmtsymphony

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:02 PM

SwIm did a lot of looking around for solvent ideas because swim is in Canada. Swim kept coming to the same conclusion- use naphtha. Swim ended up driving to the states and buying as much naphtha as he could ever need. Swim has no experience doing pulls with hexane but figures the best way to follow this tek is to follow it exactly for the best results. Swim knows what you mean regarding pouring the solvent into the seperatory funnel. It is difficult and requires patience and a slow pour. The turkey baster (glass only) works quite well actually.

#292 Disumba

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:57 PM

Hexane works, and the reason for the heat bath is to speed up separation. Adding heat to a reaction will speed it up. The problem with using hexane is it doesn't not work so well for freeze precipitation.. Heptane is the best for that..

Hexane holds more DMT, heptane only holds it when warm/hot. If it's taking a long time to separate, one can add more lye, but if they used the proper ratios, then there should be no need. Mixing it more gentle, rather than shaking it hard can help allow separation faster, too. Heat will speed up separation, but pull a bit more impurities.

For pouring off the solvent, one can use an intermediate container to pour it in, and the basic sludge will be on the bottom, often sticks, even. So the majority can be poured into a new jug, then that jug can be poured into a fresh one, leaving behind the little bit of sludge.

Also the little bit of sludge, can be washed out with the polar wash in the end, as long as one is careful and doesn't actually pour bark chunks into the new container. Various people have explained their methods throughout this thread. If none of them work for you, you should probably just practice a bit..

Good luck!

#293 bluelotuschild

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:47 PM

SWIM just finished the whole extraction and cleaning steps and is currently doing the freeze precip. SWIM is just hoping that the freeze precip works well, or else he will have to go back and evaporate the hexane solution, which would take quite awhile considering the large volume. If this is necessary though, SWIM is prepared to do it and redissolve the DMT product into warm heptane and freeze precip again.

SWIM was curious if the hexane should be evaporated regardless of yielded product after freeze precip, as there may be a good amount of final product still left in the hexane that did not precip out?

#294 Guest_Samson_*

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

It might be worthwhile, no experience with pure hexane. I'd normally save the solvent and reuse it over and over like in the tek, but if you are done, and can't distill off the solvent to recover it, it's a good idea to evaporate it all to get what's left. Even with naphtha there is some that doesn't full crash out in the freezer, although it can be negligible in smaller amounts of solvents.

#295 bluelotuschild

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 11:56 AM

Yeah after ~24 hours in the freezer, SWIM noticed there is a decent amount of white crystals precipitating; however, SWIM says it has looked the same since the ~12 hour mark. SWIM thinks he is going to leave the jug in the freezer for another 12 hours and then evaporate all the remaining hexane to see if there is anything left.

SWIM previously did a trial run with ~100 g of the same MHRB used, and pulled a significant amount of product out via an evaporation process (instead of freeze precip), so he thinks there is more product remaining in the hexane solvent from the current ~1000 g batch.

#296 bluelotuschild

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:36 PM

Here are some pics of SWIM's final product. There is still some product evaporating from the hexane solvent, but not a significant amount. Overall, SWIM is a bit disappointed from the yield. SWIM does not have a scale right now, so there's no way to weigh the product, but the physical amount doesn't seem as much as he thought he might get (product is still drying as well). SWIM isn't sure if the yield is smaller due to a lower alkaloid content from the MHRB or not.

SWIM thought perhaps that the use of hexane may not have been as beneficial with this tek, but SWIM doesn't think that would reduce yield by a large amount. If pure hexane truly holds more DMT than naptha, then it should be an ideal solvent, just maybe not for this particular process.

Another source of error was the amount of base used. At first, SWIM thought he did not use enough base, as this tek suggests the use of 1:1 weight ratio of NaOH to MHRB, and swim thought he was using ~1000 g MHRB to ~900 g NaOH. But then SWIM realized he was in fact using ~900 g MHRB and that the base ratio was correct. In fact, SWIM used more than 900 g of base: 16 more tbls. pellet NaOH was added after the first pull (though SWIM isn't sure how much that 16 tbls. weighed).

The only other thing SWIM did differently from this tek was adding non-iodized sea salt (no anti-caking agents added either) to make the water layer more polar. SWIM is unsure if this could have caused a lower yield or not.

The simple answer is that the MHRB did not contain as much alkaloids as SWIM expected, but he is still skeptical. Anybody have any thoughts?

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#297 dmtsymphony

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:42 PM

I have a question for people. Is it ok if the Naphtha pulls are clear, and not yellow, or barely yellow? SWIMS most recent extraction has much clearer pulls than last time. Using Toads bark.

#298 bluelotuschild

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:13 AM

I have a question for people. Is it ok if the Naphtha pulls are clear, and not yellow, or barely yellow? SWIMS most recent extraction has much clearer pulls than last time. Using Toads bark.


As long as you used enough base in the process and gave the MHRB time to react with the base, you should be fine. I don't think a less tinted color will tell you anything about the DMT content you are pulling, though I may be wrong in that assumption. Some of SWIM's pulls were fairly clear using pure hexane.

If anything, one would think a clearer colored solvent pulled from the mix would be a good sign that you were not pulling many impurities with the solvent.




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