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#21 Mushroom Kingdom

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:38 AM

Does anyone see why you couldn't extract the mushies with ethanol then distill down to a very concentrated amount of fluid, then add to chocolate?

Just curious. I may be trying this soon. I will post information if I do.


From what i understand... psilocybin decomposes at a "low" (not really low, but you know) temperature, and so even mixing it in chocolate is kind of risky (heating and mixing it in chocolate, that is to hot, can oxidize the psilocybin). So boiling down the ethanol and then putting it in chocolate is kind of pushing it in my opinion, but it can be done. Also calculating out how much of what you got in the ethanol, and then mixing it in the chocolate would make it very difficult to find out what an apprioate "serving" would be... It would always change per batch and ( i would imagine) be very difficult to do. if you wanna try and be a chemist, I dug this up :) this will give you some dry shit. :)

http://de1.erowid.or...extraction.html

enjoy :)!
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#22 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:36 AM

I plan on adding the final solution to melted chocolate to make small treats. I can't think of any reason why this would affect the potency. It should just act as a tasty vehicle for the extract to reside in on its trip down to my insides.



It might not affect the potency, but it might seriously affect the chocolate. Mixing water into chocolate tends to be rough on the chocolate in terms of it's consistency and texture, and Everclear has plenty of water in it. I'd guess that it might be potent, but not very palatable. Getting rid of the water in the alcohol before mixing into chocolate might work (100% ethanol, which requires buying zeolite to make), and then let the alcohol evaporate from the chocolate before pouring it into molds (let it sit in a double-boiler at low heat until all the alcohol is gone).

If you could make candies like the ones that come filled with liquor (I like Kahlua-filled chocolates, and making a mushroom extract in Kahlua that is then put into a chocolate would be very, very tasty) then you could theoretically fill a chocolate shell with the extract still in liquid form and then seal it shut w/ more chocolate.

IMO, the beauty of chocolates is skipping the tedious extraction steps and just putting the goodies into the chocolate. Granted, doing it the way you propose will make for a much smoother and stealthier candy (no little bits all through it) if it works, but the amount of work involved may be excessive for what you ultimately get out of it.

I'd highly recommend trying a small-scale test of this idea before committing a lot of your harvest to it.

#23 sticky.mycelium

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:37 AM

What proof alcohol are you using? I ask because when I use Everclear (190 proof) the extract turns a golden amber color, kind of like tequila (so I store it in a tequila bottle).

i did it with monarch rum, the clear shit. turned dark blue. vodka, whiskey, all these will work

#24 sticky.mycelium

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:52 AM

That's straight out incorrect. You're going to really ruin some people's
hobby shrooms spreading misinformation like that...

My experience has shown that three weeks is a safe amount of time to
let them sit... a few hours (even shaking them, but besides, who the hell
could shake a jar vigorously for two hours?) won't do jack squat to penetrate
the dry parts of the shroom, and for the record,

I've NEVER seen a shroom extract in liquor turn BLUE.
Brown, yes - amber, yes - but not blue. I don't know what you think
you're talking about, but it's not everclear extract...

Boomers blue in Honey, not ethanol.

The extract does remove most of the yawning, weirdness, and stomach
upset, which is why it's pretty much the only method I use any more.
Heating and / or adding the extract to honey will only speed up the loss
of potency. Extract it, evap down to about one gram / .5ml (or one gram to
one ml, whichever) then store it in the freezer. Done!

:)

soliver

never said it was everclear bud, you only need alcohol like 40% to do it with, that is from MY experience, Sorry yours isn't the same. and i was using dried powdered cubensis.
please dont tell me im doing something im not. its not very nice.
and maybe i shouldnt say its gunna turn blue, but it did for me, maybe with a different kind of booze it turns a different color..

#25 Soliver

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:18 PM

The title of this thread is "alcohol extract," which in the parlance of shroom extract generally
means everclear or other HIGH proof alcohol extract.

The entire point of the process is to keep the water soluble chemicals out of the process,
as these are (from my experience and the experience of many others) the materials
that cause discomfort.

If you use 40% liquor to extract, you may as well use water, so we're not talking
about the same thing at all - you may as well use beer and call it an alcohol extract.

I'm assuming you bothered to read the posts before yours. If you did so, you would
notice that there is no mention of drinkable spirits, only grain alcohols such as everclear.
In a thread-situation, we must assume that continued conversations rely and refer to
previous threads; you could have been talking about using cool-mint Listerine (hence
the blue coloration of your extract), as it too contains alcohol, but we weren't talking
about cool-mint Listerine, we were talking about EVERCLEAR.

And if a reader of this thread, that is, someone who read the entire thread, were to
digest your post, s/he would be led to believe that your advice pertains to everclear,
as this is the primary ethanol mentioned in the thread (except for Buckaroo's short
mention of vodka).

You failed to mention in your post what kind of ethanol you were working with,

"There's no reason to leave the booms in the alcohol for weeks at a time. you're just wasting time if you do that, all you need to do is shake it vigorously until the booze turns as blue as you think it can get, maybe an hour or two(if that).. then if you want to evaporate it you can or you can just drink the booze."

Beyond that, let's assume for a moment that you WERE talking about 40% booze,
you'd still be spreading incorrect info, as you can't evaporate 40% booze down to a
smaller end product, as the booze will evaporate much more rapidly than the water,
leaving the disappointed extractor with, essentially, a booze flavored TEA, which,
again, is contrary to the entire point of the extraction.

"please dont tell me im doing something im not. its not very nice."

I'm telling you that you're wrong, and you still are, nice or not. If you don't know
what you're talking about, please don't chime in attempting to correct knowledge that,
over several years, has been built and supported by numerous individuals here at mycotopia.

:)

soliver

#26 Soliver

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:23 PM

i did it with monarch rum, the clear shit. turned dark blue. vodka, whiskey, all these will work


I'm tempted to just edit this post, but he's partially correct, in that you can
extract shrooms into ANY liquid, including gasoline or cool-mint Listerine and
call it "alcohol extract." However, if you want any of the benefits of doing
such an extract, you really need high-test stuff.

If your "extract" turns blue, you're doing it wrong, and you're just wasting
good liquor. Better to make old fashioned tea and chase it with shots...

:)

soliver

#27 Buzztea

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:27 PM

Buzz, so since you've taken the extract also, I want to know:

Did the stomach uneasiness, yawning, and general lethargy that come with eating them whole seem less with the extract?

This was something that another member claimed and I want to know if there is some consensus in the matter.



I think so..but I am not sure..but also I do not allways have theese problems

please search for my posts about extract you will find them entertaining but with a lot of do nots (trip while extracting for example)

the extracts I made where very pleasent and potent BUT did not have a good shelf live BUT i did them with fresh mushrooms..

be sure to take records of what you do..you do not what to end up with an unknown amount of psilocyin in a spoon..then in your stomach then under your pillow ;) (inside your brain)

go with Solivers advice this is what I am going to do next time

(will still try to mix some with honey later..some heated some not..just to see which one has the better out of freezer shlef live)

be sure not to powder if you do not have proper filters..most of us have enough mushrooms anyways to loose some

just do it and have fun..

I highkly recommend alkholhol extract over water since water is a pain to evaporate

#28 MushroomJoe

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 08:02 AM

Thanks buzz.

Yeah, I have a buchner (spelling) vacuum funnel and a small vacuum source. I can filter the stuff even if its a slurry. :)

So, in everyone's EXP... How much dry would I want to extract in ethanol in order to get a dose equal to a gram or two worth of regular dry?

#29 Buzztea

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:35 PM

in my humble experience....I allways started be sure how much was in there..and then after trying not as sure anymore..;)

the experience is a little different, the onset is faster the duraton a little shorter....

you should be anywhere between 50% anf 75%..

o if you use 10g...end up with 10ml...2ml is a safe bet..and you go from there

#30 MushroomJoe

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:47 PM

Thanks for the info. I will be attempting this here soon a and I will let everyone know what I think.

#31 Soliver

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 09:50 AM

Thanks buzz.

Yeah, I have a buchner (spelling) vacuum funnel and a small vacuum source. I can filter the stuff even if its a slurry. :)

So, in everyone's EXP... How much dry would I want to extract in ethanol in order to get a dose equal to a gram or two worth of regular dry?


Yeah, that's a tough one to answer.... I'd guess I get about 75% out, but
that's a very subjective guess. It depends a lot on how dry your shrooms are
when you start, etc., but when I want the equivalent of 100g extracted, I'll
usually put in about 115 or 120g and proceed as if it were 100.

I had some extracted PR's in the freezer for three years - the last dose was
just as good as the first. I keep it in a plastic tube- the kind you get at the
dollar store for traveling & storing small amounts of shampoo, etc.

Wrap the bottle in black electrical tape to keep the light out and seal it
tight every time (I usually tape it shut again after pulling out some doses),
and make sure no one will mistake it for anything else. Storing it in an
airplane liquor bottle is a great method for stealth, but if someone comes
over the feed the cats while you're out of town and digs in the freezer for a treat...
Well, that would be truly unfortunate. Downing a few shots of that stuff
would be a mindfuck not soon forgotten :)

soliver

#32 TVCasualty

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 09:18 AM

Storing it in an
airplane liquor bottle is a great method for stealth, but if someone comes
over the feed the cats while you're out of town and digs in the freezer for a treat...
Well, that would be truly unfortunate. Downing a few shots of that stuff
would be a mindfuck not soon forgotten :)


You're right about that. I know someone who still talks about how they're glad they only took one shot of that 'moonshine' they found in my friends' RV fridge at a show. It was also good that his band had finished playing for the day. :D

And I have another friend who won't eat anything at all out of my fridge anymore without asking first. She thought a sealed package was safe, but I happened to be experimenting with sealing up some hash fudge for a road trip at the time.

If I'm living alone and someone makes off with something out of my fridge while I'm gone, as far as I'm concerned it's tough cookies for them. One batch of cookies I made was particularly tough, and let's just say that after that batch nobody I call a 'friend' and who I allow in my house when I'm not around has helped themselves to anything in my fridge since...

#33 sticky.mycelium

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:15 AM

I'm tempted to just edit this post, but he's partially correct, in that you can
extract shrooms into ANY liquid, including gasoline or cool-mint Listerine and
call it "alcohol extract." However, if you want any of the benefits of doing
such an extract, you really need high-test stuff.

If your "extract" turns blue, you're doing it wrong, and you're just wasting
good liquor. Better to make old fashioned tea and chase it with shots...

:)

soliver


there's no way to do an extract wrong(unless of course you never learned what an extract was) if all you have to do is put the product in alcohol wait till its been extracted and strain out the unwanted shit. you can argue about shit all day but in the end all i need is my own physical experience. thanks for being condescending! much appreciated.

#34 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:08 AM

there's no way to do an extract wrong(unless of course you never learned what an extract was) if all you have to do is put the product in alcohol wait till its been extracted and strain out the unwanted shit. you can argue about shit all day but in the end all i need is my own physical experience. thanks for being condescending! much appreciated.


The type of extract we're discussing should really be called a 'tincture,' which is just a solution using alcohol as the solvent. Using half (or more) water and half alcohol makes it half tincture/ half tea. That much dilution will greatly reduce the shelf life of the end product and it will most likely start out less potent due to the heavy oxidation (bluing) that occurs during the process and the lower efficiency which is a function of the short extraction time.


There's no reason to leave the booms in the alcohol for weeks at a time. you're just wasting time if you do that, all you need to do is shake it vigorously until the booze turns as blue as you think it can get, maybe an hour or two(if that).. then if you want to evaporate it you can or you can just drink the booze.


Those are some strongly-worded opinions (possibly even bordering on condescending), and it's been clearly established by a large number of people on this website and others that a long-term Everclear extract (soaking for weeks, shaking often) is extremely effective for obtaining the most potent extract possible from a given amount of mushrooms. It's not the fastest way to get the psilocybin out of the fungi, but it's the most efficient and provides the longest shelf life for the end result. IMO, that's not a waste of time.

Hip has mentioned doing quickie-extracts in a shot glass with some whiskey, and those work fine apparently, though I would not expect them to retain their potency as long as a high-proof extract would. So, in a technical sense using a low-proof liquor qualifies as an 'extraction' but it's a short-term, low-efficiency one. Adding citric acid crystals or some key lime juice to it will stop it from turning blue, btw.


So I guess that means sticky.mycelium is correct in that a low-proof alcohol extract still qualifies as an extract, but Soliver is also correct in that a high-proof alcohol will extract more efficiently and be longer lasting (and using a low-proof alcohol is functionally equivalent to making tea, which is a type of extract). If the solution turns blue, you might as well save yourself the cost of the alcohol and stick with water/tea since it gives the same result for a lot less money.
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#35 Soliver

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:21 PM

there's no way to do an extract wrong(unless of course you never learned what an extract was) if all you have to do is put the product in alcohol wait till its been extracted and strain out the unwanted shit. you can argue about shit all day but in the end all i need is my own physical experience. thanks for being condescending! much appreciated.


Well, coming from a guy talking about evaporating the water out of 80 proof
liquor...

Just because soaking boomers in a shot of whisky "works," doesn't mean you
know what you're talking about when it comes to extractions, or evaporating
liquids that aren't water.

Condescension is just part of the service I provide when you're spreading incorrect
information, as apparently sarcasm is part of your service, above.

Unless, of course, you weren't being sarcastic, in which case,
you're welcome.

:)

soliver

#36 chill

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 07:24 PM

Having done extractions for a few years now I can safely say that a few points are important for maximizing the extraction rate:

1. use highest proof alcohol possible
2. powdered shrooms are better than coarsely chopped shrooms
3. a stir plate works wonders
4. soak 3 days for a stir plate or several weeks for manual stirring
5. use a slow boil at the end to increase extraction and evaporate down
6. squeeze the shit out of the powdered shrooms when filtering
7. filter 3 time with coffee filters (pre-soaked in water).

Additional notes:
1. I've never seen an alcohol extraction go blue. Amber or brown normally.
2. my extraction rate is about 66% so I dose peeps with 5g (extracted to about 3g). The effect is very smooth and safe for beginners.

#37 chill

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 07:28 PM

there's no way to do an extract wrong


Actually there's lots of ways. I've done most of them. Here's a greatest hits list:

1. use water
2. use low % alcohol
3. use ISO and evaporate down to crystals or the sludge
4. soak for a short period of time
5. fail to evaporate down and therefore force you and your friends to drink too much alcohol
6. coarsly chop the shrooms (can work but not as efficient).

#38 TVCasualty

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:15 AM

Actually there's lots of ways. I've done most of them. Here's a greatest hits list:

5. fail to evaporate down and therefore force you and your friends to drink too much alcohol


Wait, that's a failure? Damn... :lol:

#39 Soliver

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 10:01 AM

Actually there's lots of ways. I've done most of them. Here's a greatest hits list:

1. use water
2. use low % alcohol
3. use ISO and evaporate down to crystals or the sludge
4. soak for a short period of time
5. fail to evaporate down and therefore force you and your friends to drink too much alcohol
6. coarsly chop the shrooms (can work but not as efficient).


Hey, that's the same list of "greatest / worst hits" that I have accumulated..

The ISO was the most disappointing, as I went ahead and bought a case of
99%... fortunately, I'm able to just dilute and use for other purposes, but
I was pretty excited about that one, until, of course, I tried the results.

:)

soliver

#40 marmy

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 11:03 AM

I shared this with my friend in jamaica . That person just threw in chunks of boomers. Then I shared with them the bit about powdered being better. They told me they just dumped the grain spirits and boomers into a blender, blended, and dumped it all back into the jar for more soaking.

What was really cool, is that they told me the chunks were still crispy, crackl'n.

But the liquid had a bluish tint .




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