should I case these pans? [lime]
Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:22 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:27 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:34 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:36 PM
The form I tried was very pure and so strong that it totally wiped out my entire bed almost overnight. Just because you found some super weak agricultural grade doesn't mean that is what everyone will find.
Alot of respectable growers around here have used hydrated lime with much success. Just because you had bad luck with hydrated lime, doesn't mean everyone else will. Although most people have great success from using horticultural hydrated lime, some do not. Blue, I respect you as a grower, and I know you're a good person too. :) But I don't want people to get the wrong idea about hydrated lime. It works well, and professionals use it too as RR mentioned above, it's what stamets recommends .
Pickling lime, one of the most typical forms of hydrated lime, for example will not work well.
Pickling lime is food grade calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime) with no additives or preservatives. Be careful with what you say, what works for some will not work for others and vice versa.
I'm not saying Calcium carbonate doesn't work well. But many brands of picking lime and hydrated lime work equally well. You can disagree, but it's been proven by various people here. The reaction of hydrated lime with CO2 gas = calcium carbonate, there's very little difference between the two. You do have to be careful with the kind of lime used, you never want to use dolomitic hydrated lime, always use high calcium horticultural hydrated lime with Mg. levels below 5%
Chill...sorry to derail your thread. :)
Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:40 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 09:30 PM
In casing mixes, hydrated lime gives an immediate ph correction, and it lasts as long as the average casing lasts. I use one teaspoon of hydrated lime per cup of peat in my 50/50 casing mixes, along with a tablespoon of gypsum per cup of peat. The gypsum, which contains both calcium and sulphur, helps to moderate the hydrated lime. I have never, and I repeat never had problems with using hydrated lime. It is what I recommend over calcium carbonate due to it's very fast acting properties. If one can't find hydrated lime, then use pickling lime/calcium carbonate. But, in my opinion, it's a second choice, not the first.
Ok, we must be talking about totally different types of hydrated lime here. What EXACTLY are you and Stamets using? If it's so advanced, why is it not mentioned in his texts? One teaspoon of what I have per cup would drive the pH to 10+ for days if not weeks, surely killing everything eventually. You say hydrated lime? I have 98.5% pure calcium hydroxide (aka hydrated lime). It's called CODEX Hydrated Lime and is manufacturered by the Mississippi Lime Company. Here is a specifications sheet:
Now, I know exactly what I was using, and I know for a fact that you cannot use a teaspoon per cup. Now what where you and Stamets using? Do you want me to do an experiment to tell you how many weeks the casing pH remains above 9.0 using a teaspoon per cup of the hydrated lime I have? I am willing to do it. My guess would be at least a month before enough was converted to calcium carbonate to bring the pH back down to 9.0.
I am not saying it can't be used. I HAVE used it, but I was really careful with it. I also found the pH holding ability to totally suck compared to calcium carbonate. If you are shooting for one or two flushes, though, it probably doesn't matter.
PS - Oh and pickeling lime is hydrated lime. It's very close to pure hydrated lime too (over 98%).
Posted 01 February 2006 - 09:38 PM
Ok. I just did mix it up really well. The initial pH of the 1 teaspoon hydrated lime to 1 cup peat is 12.4 using a recently calibrated pH probe that is accurate to +/- .1
I will post each day updating you here. It's exposed to the air too so the pH should fall slowly.
Posted 01 February 2006 - 09:43 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 09:49 PM
http://www.gardnwise...d Lime Hi Yield'
Looks like pure calcium hydroxide to me. I wish I could get my hands on it. If anyone knows where to buy it, let me know. I'd like to examine this stuff for myself.
Posted 01 February 2006 - 10:47 PM
Posted 01 February 2006 - 11:03 PM
Calcium - 51%
Calcium Oxide - 72.50%
Magnesium Oxide - .45%
Calcium Carbonate Equivalent - 131%
Calcium Hydroxide - 95.79%
http://v-p-g.com/Lab... Lime Label.pdf
Posted 01 February 2006 - 11:33 PM
Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:23 AM
At some point, I will write up the casing preparation technique I use. It's a little bit different than any other I have read. I do a lot of rinsing of the mix in a plastic cement sand bag before I pressure cook because I believe that a good rinse emulates the natural leaching of rain. Such leaching removes potentially harmful salts (including residual sodium chloride from oyster shells) as well as reduces the amount of silt in the peat which would otherwise reduce gas exchange. After seeing many types of mycelium rip through my casings in ways that you just don't see online often, I am convinced of the technique.
For example, in the attached picture you can see Viet Pan Cyan ripping through 1/3rd inch of a casing. The picture was taken only 5 days after I laid the casing! That colonization completeness in such a short time is only possible with a casing that is perfectly prepared coupled with an aggressive strain like Viet (which totally rocks so far by the way).
#34 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*
Posted 02 February 2006 - 08:46 AM
Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:40 PM
#36 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*
Posted 02 February 2006 - 01:07 PM
Posted 02 February 2006 - 01:15 PM
Let's see what happens. I the experiment has not completed yet. I am going to wait and see if the pH drops to the mid 8s by tomorrow. It might do it. I just don't know.
This whole issue opens up a strange debate because the calcium carbonate equivalent of agricultural hydrated lime is supposedly only 135%. If that is true, then your 1 teaspoon shouldn't be too much. I am just going by the pH numbers, though. If the pH reads over 9 tomorrow, then it's too high no matter what. We'll see.
Posted 02 February 2006 - 03:03 PM
That casing didn't pin until I washed the lime off.
Hydrated lime always worked perfectly for balancing the pH of peat-based casings, and drastically increased my overall success in almost all aspects of growing mushrooms.
Now I just keep it away from the pins.
Posted 02 February 2006 - 03:36 PM
Posted 02 February 2006 - 04:50 PM
I want to see this super weak hydrated lime everyone is using. Where do I buy it? I want to test it.
There's alot of different brands out there that'll work. To name a few, Hoffmans, Bonide, Hi-Yield, Kellogs, and various brands of Pickling Lime like Mrs. Wages. As far as hydrated lime, I switched from Hi-Yield to Kelloggs because it's easier for me to find and works great. B.H, PM me if you want to find Kellogg's locally. Also for those needing a good source for Calcium Carbonate, check out Petco or Petsmart for a product called T-Rex Calci Sand. This is an inexpensive natural source of calcium carbonate. You can get a 5 lb. bag for under $10