Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Psilocybin/Psilocin potency as a function of the fruitbody's maturity.


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 MushroomJoe

MushroomJoe

    Mycotechnician

  • Expired Member
  • 429 posts

Donator

Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:09 AM

I remember hearing or reading a long time ago that the production of psilocybin and psilocin slows down at a certain point in the growth of the mushroom fruit body. Specifically around the time when the cap begins to pull away from the stem.

Is there any truth to this claim? Are there any references anyone might know of about studies in this area?

If this is true, it would be more worthwhile (IMO) to pick your mushies earlier and to have to dose with less material.

I just wanted to start a discussion about this to see others thoughts/opinions.

#2 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 11,580 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:37 AM

Picking just before the veil ruptures (or a little while after) is far and above the best way to go unless you're making prints. It's cleaner, firmer, has far fewer indigestible spores (which I suspect have a lot to do with nausea), and when dry weighs no less than a button/bullet of the same size that's allowed to fully mature.

I picked half a tray's worth of 'bullets' just before the veils ruptured and the rest I picked after the caps had opened to plane (the culture was an isolate) and after weighing, drying, and comparing them it was clear that virtually all of the mass of the mature mushroom is present in the immature specimens; they mature so fast because all they're doing is expanding the already-formed cells with water, so if you harvest just before the veil breaks you'll get the same dry weight as you would if you waited until your FC was a purple mess, but the 'bullets' will be much higher quality in every sense.

Not only do you want to max out the potential potency of a strain, you want to preserve it once you achieve it and that's another reason to pick before they open up; once they switch to massive spore production, all indications are that production of psilocybin stops (there is none found in spores which is why spores are legal in most states). Once it stops being produced, the level will begin to drop thanks to oxidation. Granted, it's a slow decline and probably not even noticeable, but since all other factors that determine quality are also in decline at that point, I can see no good reason for allowing mushrooms to open up prior to harvest.

#3 MushroomJoe

MushroomJoe

    Mycotechnician

  • Expired Member
  • 429 posts

Donator

Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:04 PM

This is pretty much what I had always gone by, but I was not sure if it was legit, or just talk. I'm glad to see I haven't been wasting my effort in picking them early.

Thanks for the response!

#4 MycoRunner

MycoRunner

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 113 posts

Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:18 PM

I just wanted to add that Paul Stamets writes in "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World" that the single most important variable in level of potency is the substrate. According to Stamets potency can vary dramatically based on growing conditions. I agree that picking before they start dropping spores is the way to go. I like it simply because it's less messy!

#5 Leftover Salmon

Leftover Salmon

    Bold as Love

  • Expired Member
  • 490 posts

Posted 22 November 2009 - 11:12 PM

I just wanted to add that Paul Stamets writes in "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World" that the single most important variable in level of potency is the substrate. According to Stamets potency can vary dramatically based on growing conditions. I agree that picking before they start dropping spores is the way to go. I like it simply because it's less messy!


What substrates would cause greater potency in fruit bodies? I don't happen to have this book, does he go into detail? Care to elaborate further?

#6 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 11,580 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:07 AM

Here are some links to sift through:

Whole thread related to substrate additives for boosting potency:
http://mycotopia.net...ecting Potency)

More about tryptophan:
http://mycotopia.net...silly strains?)

Single post I made about quinoa from thread about using Rye-Berries that lays out my argument in favor of supplementing with quinoa due to it's high phosphorous and tryptophan content:
http://mycotopia.net...078-post47.html

Older poll:
http://mycotopia.net...BIE POTENCY ??)

Potency related to timing of harvest:
http://mycotopia.net...in... [merged])

Edited by TVCasualty, 24 November 2009 - 07:55 AM.
fixed links


#7 MushroomJoe

MushroomJoe

    Mycotechnician

  • Expired Member
  • 429 posts

Donator

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:30 AM

Here are some links to sift through:

Single post from thread about using Rye-Berries:
http://mycotopia.net...078-post47.html

Whole related thread:
http://mycotopia.net....g-potency.html

More about tryptophan:
http://mycotopia.net....y-strains.html

Older poll:
http://mycotopia.net....e-potency.html

Potency related to timing of harvest:
http://mycotopia.net....gh-merged.html


Thank you for the awesome links. :headbang:

#8 MycoGranny

MycoGranny

    In Service to the Teacher

  • Expired Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:36 AM

Here are some links to sift through:

Single post from thread about using Rye-Berries:
http://mycotopia.net...078-post47.html

Whole related thread:
http://mycotopia.net....g-potency.html

More about tryptophan:
http://mycotopia.net....y-strains.html

Older poll:
http://mycotopia.net....e-potency.html

Potency related to timing of harvest:
http://mycotopia.net....gh-merged.html



THESE LOOK GREAT BUT LINKS GO TO "PAGE NOT FOUND"? I am curious if I can harvest a few even earlier than right before Veil breaks, like maybe a couple days before that, for Thanksgiving Weekend, without losing too much potency?

#9 hyphaenation

hyphaenation

    Former Staff

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 13,759 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by TVCasualty

Posted Image

Whole thread related to substrate additives for boosting potency:
http://mycotopia.net...ecting Potency)

More about tryptophan:
http://mycotopia.net...silly strains?)

Single post I made about quinoa from thread about using Rye-Berries that lays out my argument in favor of supplementing with quinoa due to it's high phosphorous and tryptophan content:
http://mycotopia.net...078-post47.html

Older poll:
http://mycotopia.net...BIE POTENCY ??)

Potency related to timing of harvest:
http://mycotopia.net...in... [merged])


  • TVCasualty likes this

#10 P4ulada

P4ulada

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 945 posts

Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:48 PM

I always think on it, and I always pick after the veil rupture, thank you guys!

#11 MycoGranny

MycoGranny

    In Service to the Teacher

  • Expired Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:48 PM

Thanks Hyphe

#12 marmy

marmy

    riding the roller coaster

  • Expired Member
  • 1,150 posts

Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:40 AM

It is my personal, unscientific, non proven nor tested opinion, that genetics play a bigger role on potency than any other factor.

I agree though, unless your are printing, pick em at the veil breakage point .

#13 MushroomJoe

MushroomJoe

    Mycotechnician

  • Expired Member
  • 429 posts

Donator

Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:54 AM

It is my personal, unscientific, non proven nor tested opinion......


Love the buffer statement!!! :) :pirate:

#14 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 11,580 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:09 AM

THESE LOOK GREAT BUT LINKS GO TO "PAGE NOT FOUND"? I am curious if I can harvest a few even earlier than right before Veil breaks, like maybe a couple days before that, for Thanksgiving Weekend, without losing too much potency?


Oops. Cut'n'paste didn't work out so well on those links (thanks, hyph!), but I guess they're fixed now.

And sure, you can pick 'em any time you want; as soon as they start knotting up they start increasing the psilocybin content, and in fact many people think the most potent ones (gram for gram) are aborted mushrooms; the ones that never get taller than about an inch before they stall out can knock your socks off, but it takes a lot of them to make a gram.

Young ones are plenty strong, and if you can time it to eat them fresh or make tea or jello shooters with them while still fresh they'll retain a lot more potency than if you dry them first. Check out Eatyu's jello shot recipe: http://mycotopia.net...llo-recipe.html

As an experiment, I once took a potato peeler and peeled the outer layer of a BRF cake off and made tea with it. I'd harvested a couple flushes off it and it was still covered with knots but seemed done fruiting. There were no pins or aborts on it so I expected a mild trip but I got blasted to a +3 on the Shulgin scale of trip intensity; not quite ego loss but close. It tasted pretty bad, but it was worth it!

#15 MycoGranny

MycoGranny

    In Service to the Teacher

  • Expired Member
  • 244 posts

Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:32 AM

Oops. Cut'n'paste didn't work out so well on those links (thanks, hyph!), but I guess they're fixed now.



YEAH THANKS HYPH! - from Granny (Miniature Donkeys)

As an experiment, I once took a potato peeler and peeled the outer layer of a BRF cake off and made tea with it. I'd harvested a couple flushes off it and it was still covered with knots but seemed done fruiting. There were no pins or aborts on it so I expected a mild trip but I got blasted to a +3 on the Shulgin scale of trip intensity; not quite ego loss but close. It tasted pretty bad, but it was worth it!


:headbang: That is REMARKABLE! I am definitely gonna see what's up with that. Waste not, want not...

#16 hyphaenation

hyphaenation

    Former Staff

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 13,759 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:15 PM

Tryptophan Sources:

Attached Thumbnails

  • trip.jpg





Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!